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Intermediate Level, Budget ski trip option in CO or Utah? - Page 2

post #31 of 55
The Summit county resorts are Breckenridge, Copper, Keystone, and A-basin. You could. Throw Loveland in there although it is over the divide in Clear Creek county.

Of these, I'd recommend Keystone and Copper. Breck has tons of intermediate terrain as well, but it also is far more crowded.

Mike
post #32 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by habacomike View Post

The Summit county resorts are Breckenridge, Copper, Keystone, and A-basin. You could. Throw Loveland in there although it is over the divide in Clear Creek county.

Of these, I'd recommend Keystone and Copper. Breck has tons of intermediate terrain as well, but it also is far more crowded.

Mike

 

Thanks Haba.  I noticed both of those resorts are about the same driving distance from Frisco as well, which doesn't really help my decision.

 

Keystone is bigger right?

post #33 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by focker View Post

 

Thanks Haba.  I noticed both of those resorts are about the same driving distance from Frisco as well, which doesn't really help my decision.

 

Keystone is bigger right?

 



Copper would be my suggestion. While Keystone does have some great intermediate terrain I'm not a big fan of the place. Teh way the mountains are set up pretty much all runs end on catwalks that funnel back to the lift, this includes both intermediate adn Expert terrain which creates a frustrating situation for all involved.

Copper on the other hand has naturally divided terrain with beginner terrain on the skier's left of the mountain and progressing to more advanced terrain as you move to skiers right.
post #34 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by focker View Post
 

Can someone advise if any of these Summit county resorts are better for people with 9-12 year old kids who are intermediate skiers?

They are all pretty good for this crowd, but if it was me I'd probably go to Copper due to the way the mountain is set up and that it's not quite as busy.

post #35 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by anachronism View Post

One more plug for Sunlight is this deal-



 



http://www.sunlightmtn.com/ski-swim-stay



 



You get a room, a lift ticket, and a hot springs pass for around $100 for the in-town motels/hotels (a bit more for Brettleburg). Basically, you get a free lift ticket and hot springs pass for every day you stay (or flipped around, a $20 room every day you stay).

 



Well I was going to plug Sunlight for this post, but Anachronism has got it covered.
Sunlight/Glenwood Springs is the best location for cheap intermediate skiing in Colorado. There are lots of terrain options at Sunlight and tons to do in Glenwood.
post #36 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeUT View Post
 

Before you stay outside of the mountain at somewhere like Copper or Keystone, call the resort booking number and get prices on packages. It was years ago now, but I got a crazy deal at Copper when I did this, a deal I never would have found on the Web. Adding lift tickets actually made my four-night stay cheaper. It was something like $500 for a room for two in the village plus two 3-day "superBee" lift tickets, which allowed us to skip the main line and use a dedicated "superBee" (think that's the name) line. Don't know what deals are like nowadays, but it's worth a check. Much more convenient and I'd have to think cheaper than shuttling from Silverthorne/Frisco every day.


JoeUT is right.  Even at the bigger areas, crazy "package" deals can make it worthwhile staying closer to the slopes in far better accommodations than a motel. In some instances, the operator of the mountain is also the property manager for a large percentage of units.  This means the resort will get its share of revenue from several places if it simply  fills the rooms even if breakfast, lift tickets, etc. are given away for free.  Never assume cheaper lodging saves money if lift tickets or lessons are needed.

post #37 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by lonewolf210 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by focker View Post
 

 

Thanks Haba.  I noticed both of those resorts are about the same driving distance from Frisco as well, which doesn't really help my decision.

 

Keystone is bigger right?

 



Copper would be my suggestion. While Keystone does have some great intermediate terrain I'm not a big fan of the place. Teh way the mountains are set up pretty much all runs end on catwalks that funnel back to the lift, this includes both intermediate adn Expert terrain which creates a frustrating situation for all involved.

Copper on the other hand has naturally divided terrain with beginner terrain on the skier's left of the mountain and progressing to more advanced terrain as you move to skiers right.

 

While given the choices I would recommend Copper as well, but I would also recommend a ski vacation outside of Summit County for most folks due to crowd, cost and non-unique terrain reasons.

 

One thing I have noticed about Copper that I am not a huge fan of is that many beginner and intermediate runs are cut on a double fall line (the run is cut across the true downhill of the slope). I'm pretty sure this was done to maximize the unique Beginner/Intermediate/Expert layout by cheating some runs a bit, but I found it annoying.

 

Still, I would rather put up with some double fall line stuff than Keystone and Breck crowds (and Keystone's ridiculous hike through the base village). My favorite in Summit is Abay.

post #38 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by focker View Post
 

Can someone advise if any of these Summit county resorts are better for people with 9-12 year old kids who are intermediate skiers?

@focker : may be better to start a separate thread.  Might consider putting it in Family Skiing with the destination in the title.

post #39 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by anachronism View Post
 

 

While given the choices I would recommend Copper as well, but I would also recommend a ski vacation outside of Summit County for most folks due to crowd, cost and non-unique terrain reasons.

 

One thing I have noticed about Copper that I am not a huge fan of is that many beginner and intermediate runs are cut on a double fall line (the run is cut across the true downhill of the slope). I'm pretty sure this was done to maximize the unique Beginner/Intermediate/Expert layout by cheating some runs a bit, but I found it annoying.

 

Still, I would rather put up with some double fall line stuff than Keystone and Breck crowds (and Keystone's ridiculous hike through the base village). My favorite in Summit is Abay.

 

Most think Copper is one of the best laid out mountains anywhere.   I don't buy the double fall line criticism of Copper, at least for beginner and intermediate terrain.  There are certainly a bunch of bump runs with double fall lines, but I think in many cases that just makes them more interesting.   

 

You can take a look at how the runs are cut against a topo map on this slope gradient document from Copper's upgrade plan (pink is steepest and green least steep):

http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb5333381.pdf

 

For a lower level intermediate, there is no better terrain in the world than under the Timberline lift.  This is an area where an intermediate can happily spend an entire day on one lift.  Here's an image of that terrain where you can see all the runs are perpendicular to the topo lines except parts of Soliloquy and Roundabout.  Those are probably the runs you are thinking of but they are in no way indicative of the entire mountain.  Every ski area has runs like that.

 

 

If you move over to the advanced intermediate runs you can see the majority of these runs are cut down the fall line too.  These runs under the Super Bee are on a bit of a ridge and they had to cut the runs across the fall line around some terrain features, but this just makes them more interesting IMO.   These are generally considered some of the best cruising runs anywhere and where the US Ski Team does there early season downhill training.

 

 

What does a double fall line run look like?  Far East is now one of my favorite bump runs but it was my nemesis for a while because of the steep double fall line you can see in the map below.   When I changed my home mountain to Copper from Mary Jane I had to change my bump skiing too.  As if bumps aren't hard enough, you have to constantly evaluate and switch lines on a run like Far East.  I now see that as an additional challenge and opportunity to play with my line, but I can see why most folks would rather have the bump runs straight down the fall line.   There are not many bump runs like that at Copper, but Mine Dump is a great one.  It's under the Excellerator lift in the picture above.

 

 

The only other way I could see ending up on a double fall line at Copper is getting from one side of the mountain to the other.   If you are on the west side of Copper and you ski to the East Village, you have to cut across the fall line for example.  I see this as a benefit of Copper, since this isn't possible at most ski areas, rather you have to take a lift somewhere in between to get across the mountain.


Edited by tball - 10/19/13 at 8:52am
post #40 of 55
You know, there is really no such thing as a double fall line. The fall line is which way a ball would go if you let it go. There are fall lines which follow the direction of the trail, or vice versa, and then there are fall lines that don't follow the direction of the trail. On the latter, you just tend to take longer turns in one direction than you do for the other direction.
post #41 of 55

^^^^ Very true.  There is only one fall line.  "Double fall line" is a term I've heard for years, though.  Skiers use that term to describe runs that are not cut directly down but instead somewhat across the fall line, so the fall line doesn't follow the direction of the trail as you said.

post #42 of 55

No one has mentioned it but Snowbasin in UT is also a possibility.  Stay in Ogden and drive up to either Snowbasin / Powder Mtn each day.

 

Lift tix and lodging are good values there, and there's plenty of mid level terrain.  

 

They are about an hour from the airport.  If you stay at Snowbasin's properties, which are NOT slopeside, they will have some lift ticket deals that are pretty good value, maybe $50 a day.

 

I'd also recommend Keystone.  

post #43 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by tball View Post
 

 

Far East is now one of my favorite bump runs but it was my nemesis for a while because of the steep double fall line you can see in the map below.

 

 

Far East can be a bear...especially that one steep drop off that is always rocked out.  I prefer Too Much for every day gnarl...similar to Far East but a little easier on the slabs. Brennan's Grin is another fun one with the double fall line...and another one where the rocks near the bottom can sneak up on you.

post #44 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by tball View Post
 

 

The only other way I could see ending up on a double fall line at Copper is getting from one side of the mountain to the other.   If you are on the west side of Copper and you ski to the East Village, you have to cut across the fall line for example.  I see this as a benefit of Copper, since this isn't possible at most ski areas, rather you have to take a lift somewhere in between to get across the mountain.

Its been a long time since I've spent a day on the blues and greens Copper, but I think most of the double fall lines runs were greens, and most of the runs were off American Flyer. I'm sure there are plenty or runs that are not cut that way, and I also realize part of the problem lies with being stuck on American Flyer- I did a lot of skiing at Copper when American Eagle and Flyer were the only high speed lifts on the mountain and the only place my family wanted to ski was off of high speed lifts (with the rest of the crowds). 

 

I'd like to get back and give Copper another shot, but it never seems to work out...

post #45 of 55
Copper is super fun, in my limited experience. Pretty much my favorite mountain for bumps, Not that I've visited all of then, of course, and not that it helps the OP.
post #46 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by anachronism View Post
 

Also I think the windy/cold at Loveland is a bit overblown.

 

Was that pun intended?

 

I skied at Sunlight several times when I was a teenager and I recall having a lot of fun. My parents built a hotel in Glenwood Springs so I got to spend a lot of weekends up there. I took my family to visit last summer and GS looked like it had barely changed in the last 30 years. Carbondale however...

post #47 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toecutter View Post
 

 

Was that pun intended?

 

I skied at Sunlight several times when I was a teenager and I recall having a lot of fun. My parents built a hotel in Glenwood Springs so I got to spend a lot of weekends up there. I took my family to visit last summer and GS looked like it had barely changed in the last 30 years. Carbondale however...

 

The ski area hasn't changed in 30 years either. They manage more terrain on the Defiance side, but that's it. Same lifts, same lodge. I first skied at Sunlight in the early 1990's and its the same today- a real throwback.

post #48 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by anachronism View Post
 

 

The ski area hasn't changed in 30 years either. They manage more terrain on the Defiance side, but that's it. Same lifts, same lodge. I first skied at Sunlight in the early 1990's and its the same today- a real throwback.

 

That's pretty neat. I think it was about 1983-1984 when I skied there. Lift tickets were $8 IIRC.

post #49 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by anachronism View Post
 

Its been a long time since I've spent a day on the blues and greens Copper, but I think most of the double fall lines runs were greens, and most of the runs were off American Flyer. I'm sure there are plenty or runs that are not cut that way, and I also realize part of the problem lies with being stuck on American Flyer- I did a lot of skiing at Copper when American Eagle and Flyer were the only high speed lifts on the mountain and the only place my family wanted to ski was off of high speed lifts (with the rest of the crowds). 

 

I'd like to get back and give Copper another shot, but it never seems to work out...

 

The American Eagle lift has some decent cruisers on a slow day, but it's always going to be a bit crowded just because it's out of the base area. 

 

The American Flyer lift shouldn't be considered a lift to ski off, IMO.  The terriain is wierd since it's on a ridge and it's alway crowded since it's from the base area too.   Just use the Flyer to get away from the base to head to the Union Creek beginner area which has a new HS lift, the Rendavous lift (slow lift but amazing views) for fun above tree line beginner/intermediate skiing, or the Timberline lift (also HS) for the great intermediate runs.  These are all great areas to ski, but the skiing off the Flyer lift itself stinks.

 

Look for the "Swinger's Pass" at Copper if you want to give it a shot again.  It's a $39 lift ticket for anyone who has a season pass to any other ski area.  No guarantees, but they started selling them in Jan or Feb the last few years.  I'd be happy to show you around....

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by qcanoe View Post

Copper is super fun, in my limited experience. Pretty much my favorite mountain for bumps, Not that I've visited all of then, of course, and not that it helps the OP.

 

Clearly you haven't been to Mary Jane :)  Copper's great for bumps, but Mary Jane is in a class all to itself.   It's a whole mountain full of perfect bump runs with great lines because good bump skiers gravitate there.  I like Copper better for the better variety of terrain that includes bowls and steeps, but for bumps Mary Jane is unmatched.

post #50 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by tball View Post
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by qcanoe View Post

Copper is super fun, in my limited experience. Pretty much my favorite mountain for bumps, Not that I've visited all of then, of course, and not that it helps the OP.

 

Clearly you haven't been to Mary Jane :)  Copper's great for bumps, but Mary Jane is in a class all to itself.   It's a whole mountain full of perfect bump runs with great lines because good bump skiers gravitate there.  I like Copper better for the better variety of terrain that includes bowls and steeps, but for bumps Mary Jane is unmatched.

 

Actually I have been to Mary Jane, albeit only on two days a decade ago. I and my skiing have changed since then. Even so, I did very much enjoy skiing some bump runs there back then. It was my first ski trip out west. I remember being on one run with a lot of sun on it - he scurries to look up the MJ trail map - Lower Columbine, I think. The bumps were quite big but very round and very soft, with superb visibility even though the air temp was in the 20s and it was early January. (Here in Maine even the best day in early January has about 90 minutes of useful light. Other than that it's more or less like skiing immersed in very cold, very gray ocean.) I remember very distinctly thinking, "Well crap! If this is what skiers in the Rockies call bumps, no wonder they like them!" But you're right that I have no extensive experience of Mary Jane. 

 

In any case I never claimed that Copper was the best mountain for bumps. I said - after emphasizing my limited experience - that it was my favorite, which is different. And I stand by that, because I found the overall Winter Park experience kind of "meh," whereas I have particularly enjoyed each of the 3 or 4 days I've spent at Copper. For one thing, there is plenty of variety of terrain of all kinds. Sticking to the bumps theme, there is variety there, too. You can kind of take it easy on the interesting but not too intimidating moguls under the Timberline Express lift. You can just yo-yo mindlessly and joyfully on Mine Dump. Or you can really get a series of serious extended workouts in the Alpine / Resolution area. Those bump runs on Alpine are freaking endless. My legs are tired just thinking about them! In a good way. :)

post #51 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by tball View Post
 

 

Clearly you haven't been to Mary Jane :)  Copper's great for bumps, but Mary Jane is in a class all to itself.   It's a whole mountain full of perfect bump runs with great lines because good bump skiers gravitate there.  I like Copper better for the better variety of terrain that includes bowls and steeps, but for bumps Mary Jane is unmatched.

 

Here you go...

 

Typical Copper bumps

 

"Easy" Jane bumps

post #52 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by tball View Post
 

I like Copper better for the better variety of terrain that includes bowls and steeps, but for bumps Mary Jane is unmatched.

I dunno, BC has some pretty good bump runs too.  And longer than the Jane.

 

Mike

post #53 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by qcanoe View Post
I remember very distinctly thinking, "Well crap! If this is what skiers in the Rockies call bumps, no wonder they like them!" 

 

Yup we are spoiled with our soft bumps (most the time).    Those are some great vidos Abox posted ^^^ showing Copper and Mary Jane bumps.   

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by qcanoe View Post
 

In any case I never claimed that Copper was the best mountain for bumps. I said - after emphasizing my limited experience - that it was my favorite, which is different. And I stand by that, because I found the overall Winter Park experience kind of "meh," whereas I have particularly enjoyed each of the 3 or 4 days I've spent at Copper. For one thing, there is plenty of variety of terrain of all kinds. Sticking to the bumps theme, there is variety there, too. You can kind of take it easy on the interesting but not too intimidating moguls under the Timberline Express lift. You can just yo-yo mindlessly and joyfully on Mine Dump. Or you can really get a series of serious extended workouts in the Alpine / Resolution area. Those bump runs on Alpine are freaking endless. My legs are tired just thinking about them! In a good way. :)

 

And... that's why I switched to Copper.  Adding steeps and bowls to bumps makes it perfect for me.  Nice summary of Copper's bump runs, just add Resolution and you've got them all.  When the snow is good I'll do laps for hours hitting steeps in Spaulding bowl then bumps down to Resolution.  When you get to Resolution, pole up the traverse a little to get over to Sawtooth and the runs off of it for better snow.

 

For someone learning to ski bumps, Little Burn under the Timberline lift  you mentioned is the best easy bump run anywhere.  I taught my nephews there.  They graducated to Mine Dump, and the youngest even made it down Too Much!   If anyone is looking for an easy, not too steep bump run to learn, Little Burn is the best.   Only caveat is you have to ski under the lift, so you can't be shy.

 

Jay (OP), sorry for the various thread diversions about bumps and double fall lines.  Don't hesitate to ask if you have any more questions about your trip!

post #54 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by habacomike View Post
 

I dunno, BC has some pretty good bump runs too.  And longer than the Jane.

 

Mike

 

Beaver Creek has awesome bump runs.  They might be a couple hundred vertical longer at BC, but the lines are way better at the Jane.  Too many Kastles and not enough Hart F-17s and Dynastar Twisters at BC :)

post #55 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by anachronism View Post

Sunlight. Brettleburg condos are on mountain and very cheap. Lift tickets are cheap. Lots of long vert intermediate terrain. Glenwood Springs is a nice quiet resort town. Downside is slow lifts.

this....great mountain with the only downside the super long slow lifts

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