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Big Guy Colorado One Quiver

post #1 of 23
Thread Starter 

I am GIGANTIC. 6 foot 6 280. Fortunately, im not a fat load. Im a former offensive lineman and have been skiing since my dad put me on a leash in 93'. I need a one quiver ski (ideally a powder ski) that can be used well for both the powder days and hardpacked days. Ill be skiing Breck, Keystone, Copper, Vail and Beaver all winter and I am currently getting geared up.  Coming from the east coast, I would ride a faty Fischer 180 and had great control and ease of use but never had days of powder.

 

I am looking for a one quiver powder ski that will not suck in the hardpack. I have looked at the Salomon Czar in a 179 and a Vokl Katana in 181. Ive read both up through and through and have seen more reveiws favoring a Katana on the hard pack but indicating its tought to control there. The katana being aluminium top sheet makes it heavier to. With the Czar ive seen less control on hard pack in reviews but people call it an all moutain ski.

 

 

As a big skiier, i want to get oppions on the effectiveness of powder skis on hardpack for someone who carries so much weight and size. Does a larger ski help in all conditions for a big guy? My assumption is yes but I have been wrong before.


Edited by jeffd123 - 9/19/13 at 3:26pm
post #2 of 23

Given your weight (and strength?) you can probably handle a bigger (& stiffer) ski than most if you have good technique.  I am 6' 3", 190 lbs and my biggest ski is a 191 Scott P4 (108 mm under foot with a twin tip).  It is not what I would take out expecting icy conditions and is not as maneuverable in the trees as some of my other skis, but it is fun in powder and can rip nice GS turns on most CO groomers.

 

A large ski wouldn't help if you were running a slalom course- there you would want a 165 cm ski with a lot of side cut.  You might want a stiffer SL ski than a lighter skier, but wouldn't want longer in the gates.

post #3 of 23

I would take a look at the Blizzard Cochise as well.  This is a great ski for a one ski quiver out west.  The ski will more than hold its own on the hardpack and excels in the crud and chopped up powder.  It is not a powder ski but will certainly float just fine.  I have to agree with MEfree30 in that it appears you are on a very short ski for your size.  I am 5'9" and 180lbs and ski on a pair of 194 Gotamas and 193 Shiros for my powder ski.  179's for a guy your size seems short.

post #4 of 23

Welcome to EpicSki.  I'm not sure I can think of any 179cm powder ski that would work for you, unless there's only about an inch of powder.  I'm only about 5'8" and my daily driver is a 170 and plan to buy a pair of 174cm Atomic RItuals, 103mm waist, as my powder ski.  You're a foot taller and about 130 pounds heavier so a 179 is not going to give you a lot of float.  You should be on something like 190-200cm and a fairly stiff ski.

post #5 of 23

Welcome to Epic. With your desire to ski Summit County Ski Resorts all winter, I might make the suggestion you seriously consider at least a two ski quiver. A narrower carving ski for the very frequent hard pack days on the front side and a wider soft snow skis for new snow days. You can purchase lightly used skis at a fair price and have comfortable options. If you plan to ski very many days during the season a one ski quiver limits you too much IMHO.

post #6 of 23
Thread Starter 

Thanks for the replies everyone. Financial reasons are a major issue with the one quiver ski. Ill lead off with that. I have taken your advice and have steered away from the Katanas and the Czars. Both seem wouldn't suit my needs. What i have seen is K2 Kung Fujas having a great length at 189 for me and a decent sidecut. Im concerned about if I take these on a powder day and me sinking rather than floating and having little control over that with a 102mm waste. I know this may be an ulitimate road to a pair of each but I am seeing how I can enjoy myself one one set of skis and take in some powder days but not an extreme ton. 

post #7 of 23

Check out ON3P skis- they are a smaller Indie company (not so small anymore though) that makes their skis in house in the USA. Amazing quality and craftmanship, you won't find anything of higher quality.

 

http://www.on3pskis.com/skis/

 

I just got the 176 Jeronimos at 102 underwaist, and they should be a great a one ski quiver for me here in co.  I'm five nine 180, so not nearly as big as you. I ski really the whole mountain, and also do some park and enjoy hitting the trees a lot, so I opted to go a bit short at 176. 

 

Anyways from all the guys i talked to and the research I did everyone seemed to love their ON3P skis, regardless of what model. Really haven't ever read anything bad about them. For real...

 

For your size I'd think perhaps the Jeffrey in 186 would work well. At 110 underwaist it can still rail down the mountain yet be wide enough for powder.

 

But even that might be small. Look at the Billy Goats in a 191 too. A wide ski, but from what I've read it seems very nimble and still does great in trees and hardpack. And of course it will excel in soft snow.

 

Also keep in mind they measure their skis from tip to tip, so a 186 will actually be 186cm when you pull a tape measure from top to bottom. (For comparison Line skis are about 3cm short of their stated length when measure this way. K2 are the same or even a couple cm longer than their stated length)

 

Anyways just throwing it out there. I'm very happy with my purchase, plus it feels good to spend my money with a small company where when you call or email them, it's going to be one of the guys who started the company and designed the skis answering. I'd even email them and have them recommend something.

 

If you want to read and research a bit yourself look at newschoolers.com - lots and lots of info over there.

post #8 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffd123 View Post
 

Thanks for the replies everyone. Financial reasons are a major issue with the one quiver ski. Ill lead off with that. I have taken your advice and have steered away from the Katanas and the Czars. Both seem wouldn't suit my needs. What i have seen is K2 Kung Fujas having a great length at 189 for me and a decent sidecut. Im concerned about if I take these on a powder day and me sinking rather than floating and having little control over that with a 102mm waste. I know this may be an ulitimate road to a pair of each but I am seeing how I can enjoy myself one one set of skis and take in some powder days but not an extreme ton. 

 

I have done a lot of skiing in summit county and the reality is your going to be really hurting yourself getting a one ski quiver that is more powder centric. I love skiing summit but they don't typically get huge storms. A big powder day for them is in the 10-12" range. They will get a few larger storms but we are really talking 2-3 days maybe up to 5-6 in a normal year and they rarely see anything much over 20". The majority of your year is going to be on skied out snow. This is 1000% more true if your going to be a weekend warrior. Even if you get a big dump pretty much every where except Vail gets skied out within an hour or two of opening unless you know where to go. (PM me and I can give you some tips if your moving to the area)

 

My personal taste is that I wouldn't get anything more than about 105 and I would probably lean more towards something in the 95-100  range. Also if your a strong skier I really think you need to go longer than 179. I'm 5'9" ,155lbs and most of my skis are longer than that. My powder/soft snow ski is 185. 

post #9 of 23
Why not a Kylie from www Graceskis.com give us a look. We can add carbon if needed.
post #10 of 23

I ski in Summit Co. as well; you'll have more hard snow days than hero days.  But I love your optimism, stay gold, Pony Boy! 

 

With the caveat that I also think you are better off with a 85-98mm daily driver and then demoing (or getting a used pair cheap; last year was mediocre for powpow, some people are ditching their fatties and going narrower) a megafat, I would take a hard look at the Nordica's burlier, metal-laden pow ski, the Helldorado.  Josh and Scotskier on this site both like the nonmetal Patron (same width/profile) for both 3D snow and surprising performance on the groomed (they are lighter than you).  If I remember right, members of the Starthaus crew also gave Patron and Helldorado high marks for both pow and groomed (again, with the caveat that if there hasn't been any fresh snow in a while, they probably won't be reaching for a 113mm+ ski).

 

Apologies in advance if I'm putting words on someone else's keyboard in the above paragraph.

 

I have been on Nordica's 107mm skis, the El Capo (con metal), and Vagabond (sin metal), verrry nice skis.  At your weight, you have me by 100# and are 8 inches taller, I would go with the El Capo or Helldorado, they have the beef you need.  I'd also steer you toward the 193 in the Helldo, since you stated a concern about float; I would be content with the 185 or 193 even at my size.

post #11 of 23
Welcome to CO big guy :)  I didn't want to be the one to break the bad news, but this is the truth:
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lonewolf210 View Post
 

 

I have done a lot of skiing in summit county and the reality is your going to be really hurting yourself getting a one ski quiver that is more powder centric. I love skiing summit but they don't typically get huge storms. 

 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FairToMiddlin View Post
 

I ski in Summit Co. as well; you'll have more hard snow days than hero days.  But I love your optimism, stay gold, Pony Boy! 

 

With the caveat that I also think you are better off with a 85-98mm daily driver and then demoing (or getting a used pair cheap; last year was mediocre for powpow, some people are ditching their fatties and going narrower)

 

On less than 20% of days you'll want a powder ski.   The rest of the time a 85-98mm daily driver is a better ski.  I'd look at the 186+ Mantra, Kendo, E88, E98, Bonifide and the like for your daily driver.  If you can only buy one ski, it's better to be on one of those for the 80% days and suffer in the 20% pow on a board that doesn't float (which is how we used to ski pow anyway).  Or you can demo a fat board for pow as FTM suggests.

 

Physics is working against you at your size.   The more you weigh, the wider ski you need to float on powder.    I'm pretty sure my wife's 78mm all-mountain ski float better for her in pow than the widest powder ski available will for you, unfortunately.  You both have to navigate your skis through the same width troughs in the bumps, though.   I think there is a similar physics argument about getting a wider ski up on edge cruising, but that math is beyond me other than knowing the 120mm+ pow board you need isn't going to carve well.

 

The more you weigh, the more you need a quiver of skis, but if you can only have one ski then pick one that suits the conditions you'll see most often.

 

Edit: the lack of powder days isn't unique to Summit County.  The best odds are at Alta and they are only 22% per Tony Crocker: 

http://50.87.144.177/~bestsnow/pwdrpct.htm


Edited by tball - 9/20/13 at 11:57am
post #12 of 23

Jeff,

 

Do you know the "one quiver myth" ?

 

In short,,,,,, no one ski does it all well ! ( note the well ).

 

Experienced skiers know well that modern skis are great,,,but have a narrower performance range compared to older skis.

 

Most serious skiers have at least 2-3 skis with performance parameters that do not cover each other.

 

Skiing in west,,,,what kind of skiing will you do ?

 

What level of competency?

 

Just do your homework. Read technical material. Read reviews. Try out some skis.

 

No expert ( who does not know you or your skiing needs ) can tell you what to buy.

 

I can tell you that I have;

-a great Head World Cup SL 165 c, for hard steep eastern skiing

-a Rossi 88 for those soft choppy cruddy days

-a Rossi Soul 7 to reach the heavens

 

That is me. You have to discover your magic skis. It is not in front of screen that this will happen,,but on the slopes.

Pa

post #13 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Voila View Post
 

Jeff,

 

Experienced skiers know well that modern skis are great,,,but have a narrower performance range compared to older skis.

 

 

Oh come on. This is just not true by a long shot. Compared to modern skis, the performance envelope of straight skis was incredibly limited. Ditto for narrow shaped skis that compared to modern designs are a hardpack 1 trick pony.

 

The only way your statement makes sense if what you mean is "older skis sucked at everything, but they sucked at everything pretty evenly, so by that definition they were versatile."

 

The reality- even 5 years ago, skis in the 95-100mm range were considered dedicated powder boards and almost universally were brutal to ski on hard snow. Now there are several models with performance 90% as good as a good 60-70 waist ski on hardpack, while being worlds, worlds, worlds better in deep snow.

 

Getting back to the OP- AT your weight and height, YOU NEED a ski in the 190-200cm range. If you like to ski aggressively, you want some of the stiffer stuff being recommended. The Kung Fujas is a very soft ski. It is fun in a lot of conditions, but with your weight and the soft flex pattern of the ski, what you will likely find is that the ski is tough to pilot in crud- the tips of the skis will get shoved around and will not track well in heavy snow, while a stiffer ski will absorb more and track truer. In Summit County, your ungroomed experience will be cut up crud much more often than it will be powder.

 

At your weight, if you want good powder performance, I think you either are looking at 2 skis or going with a wider ski.  For one ski, I would look at something in the 105-110 range. I'm not suggesting specific models because it really isn't clear what type of ski you prefer.

 

For two skis, You can have something in the 85-100 range that will be a good "everything on the mountain is firm." ski, and a ski in the 110-120 range that is a "everything in the mountain is soft" day.

 

Going with 2 skis, I would spend the cash on the harder snow ski.  I would look for deals on the soft snow ski- right now this is a pretty good deal- you can search for a lot of Bluehouse info on this site. http://www.factorydirectskis.com/discount-skis/discount-ski-maestro-panda-189.html I have these skis and love them.

 

For what it is worth, I am 6'1", 230 lbs. I spend my ski day off groomers for as long as my knees hold out. I tend to like softer, playful skis. Wolf Creek is home, which means I am skiing deeper snow than you, but with the exception of the Bluehouse, these skis were an Aspen quiver too (pretty typical I-70 snow) My current quiver is-

 

2013 Bluehouse Maestro 189- the same ski linked above 118 waist.

2009 K2 Kung Fujas 189 (older model with 95 waist)

2009 K2 Obsethed 189 (now 2 generations old- 105 waist)

 

I'm ski swapping the Obsethed this year because the Maetros, as an "S7 type" 5 point design are far more versatile than the Obsethed.

The Maestro is really my everyday ski, and the Kung Fujas are the "everything on the mountain is frozen solid and 85% of my day will be groomers and 15% bumps" ski. But again, I see a lot more snow than what you will see sking off of I-70.


Edited by anachronism - 9/21/13 at 10:29pm
post #14 of 23

I'm 6'2", and have skied the last 3 seasons between 250# and 270#.  For the first 2 of those 3, I skied the DPS Wailer RP (hybrid) as a 1-ski quiver (north central Idaho) and loved them.  It wasn't until this past winter when fresh snow seemed almost non-existent that I broke down and got a narrower ski to compliment the Wailers.  If the snow surface is anything other than hardpack or boilerplate, the Wailers handle the groomers well and I can have a lot of fun.  In the soft and deep stuff, the Wailers are a kick in the ass -- if you like skiing trees and like the nimble, quick turning style, the Wailer RP is probably a great choice.  If you are more downhill oriented and want to emphasize charging, crud-busting, and carving over the trees, I'd go with the Wailer RPC.  While skiing the Wailer RPs, I've never felt that I didn't have enough ski under me.  Given the opportunity, I'd probably opt for the "Pure" version rather than the "Hybrid" version now, as I think that probably increases the versatility that much more... Good luck man -- happy shopping.

post #15 of 23
Thread Starter 

Awesome. Everyone thanks for your input. I settled on a pair of K2 Fujas in 189 with Marker Schizo Griffon bindings. I purchased from a guy who was offering a good deal and i feel i made quite the succesful grab with these. What i have run into is the following. The bindings, which are pretty awesome, are adjustable on a set of mounted brackets to adjust for hardpack V powder. The middle of the binding sits on a wire resitance system with a metal adjustment plate indicating intersole length. The problem is this plate appears to max out at 340 and my innersole is 360. Am i in a position where I will be having to sell these bindings as they will nto suffice? I will be brining my boots and my skis in to REI to have them look but I have friends who want the bindings and would rather figure this out before bringing everything down there. Any help would again be greatly appreciated. NOTE:I am certainly not looking to "rig" anything here

post #16 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffd123 View Post

Awesome. Everyone thanks for your input. I settled on a pair of K2 Fujas in 189 with Marker Schizo Griffon bindings. I purchased from a guy who was offering a good deal and i feel i made quite the succesful grab with these. What i have run into is the following. The bindings, which are pretty awesome, are adjustable on a set of mounted brackets to adjust for hardpack V powder. The middle of the binding sits on a wire resitance system with a metal adjustment plate indicating intersole length. The problem is this plate appears to max out at 340 and my innersole is 360. Am i in a position where I will be having to sell these bindings as they will nto suffice? I will be brining my boots and my skis in to REI to have them look but I have friends who want the bindings and would rather figure this out before bringing everything down there. Any help would again be greatly appreciated. NOTE:I am certainly not looking to "rig" anything here


 



Unfortunately, it does mean you don't have any other option but to sell them. Bindings are designed for a specific BSL range and typically come in small, Med, Lg
post #17 of 23
IMO the schizos are great bindings. I love mine. But for your size the griffens are probably not durable enough for you. Maybe the jesters, but the the griffens would be iffy.

What color/year are they? Because my 2012 and 2013 Schizos both go up to 365 bsl

The bsl plates on both have a range from 265-365.

If yours only goes to 340 I'd look at The Rossignol Fks 180 or Look Pivot 18 binding (they are the same binding, just different brands/colors). That should be able to handle your weight and boot size.
post #18 of 23
Thread Starter 

Welp its that time again.

 

After skiing the past 3 years in Colorado, Utah and Tahoe I have to say I'm glad I started here because they advice coudln't have been more accurate and helpful. Thank you for those who posted a reply....

 

But it's that time again to dig into the pockets and pick up some new planks this year. I have my Kung Fujas still (which turned out to be a great purchase for a one-quiver) but I really am craving some more length (not in my pants) that may be more powder-centric. I didnt keep the Marker bindings, instead picked up some Rossi's which turned out to be fine, but i lost the advantage of the sliding mount. 

 

I've spent the past few months looking over options of what's out there between $300-$500 and believe me I've put the time in. Now that I've narrowed it down, I figured I'd work my way back here as the original advice was pretty solid.

 

What I've learned about myself riding the Kung Fujas:

- Max speed coming on too quick.

- Chatter (constantly) on ice (coughKEYSTONE).

- 10-20% Front tip drop on landing (probably technique more than anything)

-  Not floating well on powder days (mounting further back probably would have resolved this)

- Turns could be longer spaced out.

 

So today, I think I'm leaning towards a stiffer, longer ski with maybe a larger waste than the Kung Fujas (95cm) and here is what I've narrowed it down to. I appreciate any feedback from the forum.

 

- k2 Shredditor  102 (191, 102 underfoot)

- K2 Annex 108 ( 191, 108 undefoot)

- Line Mothership (195,111 underfoot)

- Faction Thirteen (194, 112 underfoot)

- 4FRNT Hoji (195, 112 underfoot)

 

Any suggestions other than what is mentioned would be helpful as well.

 

Thanks in advance.

post #19 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffd123 View Post
 

 

What I've learned about myself riding the Kung Fujas:

- Max speed coming on too quick.

- Chatter (constantly) on ice (coughKEYSTONE).

- 10-20% Front tip drop on landing (probably technique more than anything)

-  Not floating well on powder days (mounting further back probably would have resolved this)

- Turns could be longer spaced out.

 

 

 

What do you mean by tip drop on landing?

 

And what do you mean turns could be longer spaced out? not sure how a ski would control that...

post #20 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lonewolf210 View Post

What do you mean by tip drop on landing?

And what do you mean turns could be longer spaced out? not sure how a ski would control that...

Both these instances are just commentary about my shortcomings with my technique. I tend to ski fast short turns and when I come off jumps, I have a tendency to allow my skis to tip forward on my landing. IE stating some things I believe should be taken into consideration while seeking advice on longer, stiffer skis.
post #21 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffd123 View Post


Both these instances are just commentary about my shortcomings with my technique. I tend to ski fast short turns and when I come off jumps, I have a tendency to allow my skis to tip forward on my landing. IE stating some things I believe should be taken into consideration while seeking advice on longer, stiffer skis.

 

Well what your calling tip drop isn't necessarily bad if your coming down matching the pitch of the landing. Ideally your whole ski is touching down at the same time and as long as you aren't so far forward that your going tumbling or sticking the tips into the snow that's better then landing tail first. It means your weight is forward.   

post #22 of 23

OP, I am 6'4" and 250 lbs. Expert skier. I have been trying out lots of different skis over the last 5 years. I buy and sell used skis mostly, with a few new ones occasionally purchased. It sounds to me like you want a good powder ski. If you want to float in powder you need a very wide ski. At least 130mm wide. I have a 143 wide Depth Hoar from Ski Logik and that is the first ski that has ever floated me on top of powder. I sink 2 feet on my 101mm wide skis. Another similar sized skier says he sinks a foot on a 125 wide ski. I relay this to give you some perspective on how a ski will perform for a big guy.  Sinking a foot in powder is still fun and fairly easy to ski.  My advice is go wide, go long (190+), and go stiff.  I would not ski my depth hoars on hard snow regularly. If you want to use the ski on hardpack, stay around 120ish width and take what you get in powder. Also, they should be rockered pretty heavily.  Someone suggested the Blizzard Cochise, which I have heard is a very good all round wide ski, or the next wider one in the Blizzard line. That would be the Bodacious and that is near 120 wide and sounds like what would work for you.

post #23 of 23

As a former tight end, I'm in the same boat.  As other have mentioned, you'll need a wide powder ski for powder, period.  My skis are 85, 100 and 120 underfoot and I was kicking myself in the ass I didn't get the 120's earlier when I had to use the 100's.  I would have went wider than 120 but I found Squad 7s for a ridiculous price.  Look for close out skis as our length is usually the last ones to go and can be heavily discounted. 

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