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Marker Griffons or Salomon STH driver? Or Look Pivot? (for Blizzard Bonafide)

post #1 of 22
Thread Starter 

So I need new bindings, kinda broke the toe piece of my binding on a bad pop the last day of the season last year and need new ones (Blizzard Bonafide w/ Rossi Axiol 120 bindings). I am debating between the Marker Griffons or Salomon STH driver, or possibly the Look Pivot if they are that much better and worth the price. I was looking to stay around the $150 range and right now I can get my hands on some Griffons or STH from last year for 40% off. I can get the Griffons for cheaper and they match my skis better but read the Griffons squeek, thoughts? The Salomon STH Driver seem more popular here. 

 

I am 6'1 200 lbs, level 3 or 3+ skier (I have no idea how to gauge that), ski about 50/50 on/off piste, primarily east coast w/ trips to west, fast on groomers and tight trees and mogul runs. I used to come out of my Axiol quite often in tree runs when I had them at 8.5 DIN, cranking them up to 10 helped with that. Debating if a 13 max DIN on the Griffons would be enough? Also debating if I go with the Salomon, should I go with a 12 or 14? 


Also whats the average price shops usually charge to mount? This would be for dismounting my old and mounting/testing my new. Will get a pre-season tune while I am at it. 

 

Thanks guys! 

post #2 of 22

Any should work for will... I'm pretty happy with my STH 12 Driver (5'5" 150lbs/DIN 8) get the release when I need and get the hold when they are not supposed to release, I recently bought a 14 Driver for my new skis, and another 12 driver for my wife! :-) I'm pretty happy with Salomon bindings!

 

Shops should charge around $40 to mount skis... most would give you a discount if you buy bindings from them and do for free when you buy both skis and bindings.

 

I would go with the 14, not sure how accurate the information is, but I read it's better to be closer to the low than high DIN range!

post #3 of 22

Pivots and your Axiums share the same toe as far as I know, so that change would not help you much.  The heel on the Pivot is much better though may mitigate any of the issues you are having with the toe.  Its unusual for the LOOK toe to give in anyway.  With your dimensions, ski type and ski choice, the Axium is a bit too low end of a binding for comfort in my opinion.  Pivot is probably the best binding on the market with the price to match.  

 

Any of the choices you listed would be fine, but if I were you (and I am pretty close to your dimensions) I would try to get into a DIN 14 binding.  My Bonafides are currently mounted with Jesters and I had no issues.  I also had no issues with Griffons or Look PX bindings.  No experience with Salomons, but I may get some this year.  

 

I am not going to give any advice on the DIN setting over the internet, but I run my LOOKs at 8.5-9 and no popping out so far.  Jesters are set the same, but make sure you set the correct forward pressure- they are very sensitive to that, LOOKs perhaps less so.   Another good choice is Tyrolia DIN 15 bindings, I ended up going with Jesters for price reasons, but I remember being super-impressed at how beefy the Tyrolia's were with so much metal in them, and how solid their "click" action was.  

post #4 of 22

BTW, to understand the differences between DIN12 and 14 bindings, read Marshal Olson's article on Dynafit Beast bindings on BlisterGear Reviews, he goes into the details on why binding preload and elasticity matters.  The Cliffs notes version is: at your weight, you definitely need a 14 DIN version. 

post #5 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by NycMtnir View Post

So I need new bindings, kinda broke the toe piece of my binding on a bad pop the last day of the season last year and need new ones (Blizzard Bonafide w/ Rossi Axiol 120 bindings). I am debating between the Marker Griffons or Salomon STH driver, or possibly the Look Pivot if they are that much better and worth the price. I was looking to stay around the $150 range and right now I can get my hands on some Griffons or STH from last year for 40% off. I can get the Griffons for cheaper and they match my skis better but read the Griffons squeek, thoughts? The Salomon STH Driver seem more popular here. 

I am 6'1 200 lbs, level 3 or 3+ skier (I have no idea how to gauge that), ski about 50/50 on/off piste, primarily east coast w/ trips to west, fast on groomers and tight trees and mogul runs. I used to come out of my Axiol quite often in tree runs when I had them at 8.5 DIN, cranking them up to 10 helped with that. Debating if a 13 max DIN on the Griffons would be enough? Also debating if I go with the Salomon, should I go with a 12 or 14? 


Also whats the average price shops usually charge to mount? This would be for dismounting my old and mounting/testing my new. Will get a pre-season tune while I am at it. 

Thanks guys! 
First of all, the 12 and 14 DIN Salomon are the same binding in build and just a different DIN. While I am not a fan of the Px series, the problems that you had with the PX is unusual, and my guess is that the forward pressure was not set correctly. If you are going to get a Marker, I would suggest stepping up to the Jester which has a bit more metal in it.
post #6 of 22
What Phil said. I'd expect the heel piece cam to fail in the axial long before the toe broke.

Phil, what do you think about the knew Tyrolia Attack bindings ?
post #7 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by markojp View Post

What Phil said. I'd expect the heel piece cam to fail in the axial long before the toe broke.

Phil, what do you think about the knew Tyrolia Attack bindings ?
A real nice low profile toe with a wide platform. One of our senior techs just mounted up some on a pair of new Bonafides. He said it torqued perfect and and very consistent. IMHO, they made a mistake in pricing the 13 and 16's. The 13 should have been $229 and not $199 and the 16 should have been $299' not $329. I think they are trying to market share. The Attack was a close second in my Steals & Deals but being an unproven new design, I didn't have the confidence in it I had in the sth2 16 having skied it for half a season.
post #8 of 22
I think the attack 13's going to be great for folks who want a little easier entry and exit than the Griffin. Like the low profile as well.
post #9 of 22
Thread Starter 

How much of a difference are we talking between the STH 14 driver from last year and this years STH2 13s? Phil Ive seen your other post on the description and video of them. Besides the compatibility with a WTR boot, is there any other big perk to them? The rollers seem like they dont serve much technical purpose just easier entry. Anything else? 

post #10 of 22
Phil- so, the Attack is the combination of the Adrenaline toe with the old Peak heel? I recall Peak12 and 15 heels being somewhat different, is this the case with Attacks? Any impression on heel/toe elastic travel?

Looks like all companies are playing Lego with their regular and side country bindings. Salomon went the other way by putting the Guardian heel with the old STH toe. It's probably a good thing since presumably they can combine the best performing parts of each design. So, can I have the STH toe with the Pivot heel;-). The Salolooks 14?
post #11 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by NycMtnir View Post

How much of a difference are we talking between the STH 14 driver from last year and this years STH2 13s? Phil Ive seen your other post on the description and video of them. Besides the compatibility with a WTR boot, is there any other big perk to them? The rollers seem like they dont serve much technical purpose just easier entry. Anything else? 
The rollers have more to do with the release of a WTR boot since there tents to be different types of plastics used in those shells. The new toe has a little more elasticity going from the mid 40mm range to over 50mm (52mm) . The guardian heel is where there is the most change. The plate now allows for the ski to flex a bit better under the binding and the heel travel also goes from 11mm in the old design to a whopping 28mm of travel. Past all tht, it is mostly an evolutionary design in bindings for Salomon.
post #12 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexzn View Post

Phil- so, the Attack is the combination of the Adrenaline toe with the old Peak heel? I recall Peak12 and 15 heels being somewhat different, is this the case with Attacks? Any impression on heel/toe elastic travel?

Looks like all companies are playing Lego with their regular and side country bindings. Salomon went the other way by putting the Guardian heel with the old STH toe. It's probably a good thing since presumably they can combine the best performing parts of each design. So, can I have the STH toe with the Pivot heel;-). The Salolooks 14?
Yes, the toe is from the Adrenaline series. Where the old toes were differetn, the new 13 and 16 are very similar. I personally haven't played too much with the bindings on snow or on the bench, but as I said one of out Techs just mounted a pair up and was very impressed with the testing results. This had brought up a question in my kind comparing a lateral spring toe verses a longitudinal spring one.
It's funny, regarding your question on the Salolook Drive13 Pivot14 combo. I was actually thinking about that combo last week. I really like a single pivot toe and a turn table heel, why not put them together...what could possibly go wrong? biggrin.gif I might just mount up a pair of a test ski and see how they work together on the test bench. I would have to measure the stand height of the WTR toe verses the Look toe to see how the ramp angle would be. I think the toe is higher but that would easily be addressed with a shim under the heel.
post #13 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post

The rollers have more to do with the release of a WTR boot since there tents to be different types of plastics used in those shells. The new toe has a little more elasticity going from the mid 40mm range to over 50mm (52mm) . The guardian heel is where there is the most change. The plate now allows for the ski to flex a bit better under the binding and the heel travel also goes from 11mm in the old design to a whopping 28mm of travel. Past all tht, it is mostly an evolutionary design in bindings for Salomon.

Wow, those are awesome numbers. Looks like STH2 beats the Pivots in both heel and toe travel. That would make STH2 the most attractive binding on the market at the moment, well done Salomon! Do you know the travel numbers for Attack and Jester/Griffon?
post #14 of 22
Thread Starter 

Sold, I think I'll cough up the extra $ for the STH2 this season. Might invest in Quest WTR boots for touring either this season or next so that would work out nicely. Can the heal of these bindings be a free heal to make for an AT setup to skin or is that only on the guardians? 

post #15 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by NycMtnir View Post

Sold, I think I'll cough up the extra $ for the STH2 this season. Might invest in Quest WTR boots for touring either this season or next so that would work out nicely. Can the heal of these bindings be a free heal to make for an AT setup to skin or is that only on the guardians? 

Tour mode. That's the guardians only... I'll be the first to say it, though the quest max boots can accommodate a large number of foot shapes with cooking, NEVER buy a boot brand. Buy what fits.
post #16 of 22
Thread Starter 

Figured for tour mode it would be just the guardians...oh and ofcourse id only buy the boots if they fit well. I currently have a pair of Salomon boots (impact 120) and they fit great, one of the few boots I actually liked as soon as I put it on, needed a little custom work for one or two hotspots but I know the challenging of finding boots that fit well

post #17 of 22

I have the Marker Griffons, they perform well and aren't too heavy. However, by the end of 1 season they started squeaking like crazy and it's pretty annoying. Granted I beat the sh*t out of them, but I feel like that shouldn't happen. Just fyi for anyone looking at these bindings.

post #18 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexzn View Post


Wow, those are awesome numbers. Looks like STH2 beats the Pivots in both heel and toe travel. That would make STH2 the most attractive binding on the market at the moment, well done Salomon! Do you know the travel numbers for Attack and Jester/Griffon?

 

Make that beats pivots in toe elasticity and heal travel, two totally different things. Here heel travel refers to the + and - difference to accommodate different size boots (boot sole length), without a remount. Both are nice improvements.

post #19 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexzn View Post



Wow, those are awesome numbers. Looks like STH2 beats the Pivots in both heel and toe travel. That would make STH2 the most attractive binding on the market at the moment, well done Salomon!

 




Not to me...
post #20 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by neonorchid View Post

Make that beats pivots in toe elasticity and heal travel, two totally different things. Here heel travel refers to the + and - difference to accommodate different size boots (boot sole length), without a remount. Both are nice improvements.
Oops you may be right. Does anyone know the numbers for heel elasticity? Is the Pivot heel still king there? One the side note it's ridiculous that those numbers are not freely available...
post #21 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexzn View Post


Oops you may be right. Does anyone know the numbers for heel elasticity? Is the Pivot heel still king there? One the side note it's ridiculous that those numbers are not freely available...

 

I will see if I can get the Salomon's heel numbers but the Look is very good there. For me, a few MM of travel are not a make or break either way between a Pivot14 or Sth2 13 both bindings are very good, it comes down to where you have the most confidence. 

post #22 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post

The new toe has a little more elasticity going from the mid 40mm range to over 50mm (52mm) . The guardian heel is where there is the most change. The plate now allows for the ski to flex a bit better under the binding and the heel travel also goes from 11mm in the old design to a whopping 28mm of travel. Past all tht, it is mostly an evolutionary design in bindings for Salomon.

 

I am picking between Look Pivot 14 (looking also into 18din version due better construction) and Salomon STH2 13 WTR.

 

And reading your comments above Salomon seems good choice. Also because heel can be adjusted if boot size will change in future for me. I can just re-set heel where on Pivot I need to re-drill into ski right?

 

What do you think and recommend?

 

Thanks!

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