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Dry Needling

post #1 of 30
Thread Starter 
Heading to CME tomorrow on Intramuscular Dry Needling: clinicians are always looking for better ways to manage pain & keep you on the slopes!

Thoughts?
Experiences?
post #2 of 30
While I was in therapy after my tibia plateau repair, I saw a number of folks visiting the clinic for dry needling. They all proclaimed it helpful. When I had a knot in a back muscle a while later, my general practice physician said she could prescribe dry needling if it didn't go away. I didn't end up needing it, but it's nice to know that approach may be helpful.

If PT is your career, it wouldn't hurt to have that capability too.
post #3 of 30
Looovvvvve it. It's been at least 5 or 6 years since I started doing it, my pt was an early adopter. I recommend to everyone. My 15yo daughter -- who hates needles -- finally relented, and now she even knows when she needs it.
post #4 of 30
Thread Starter 
It is still relatively fringe, largely based upon practice acts & scope issues. However, I'm rather convinced that addressing the issue with the minimal impact ( exact needle vs. the traditional collateral damage thumb ) will be of benefit to my clients!!!
post #5 of 30

I've worked with chronic pain patients for over 25 years.  Dry needling is relatively new.  With the population that I see (very chronic), it reportedly sometimes helps. The costs and risks are not high.

 

My personal experience on my body is that it does relieve overly tense muscle areas and probably helped with patellofemoral pain.  However, I had a shot-gun approach with that problem and was doing many other things that probably also helped.

post #6 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by iriponsnow View Post

It is still relatively fringe, largely based upon practice acts & scope issues. However, I'm rather convinced that addressing the issue with the minimal impact ( exact needle vs. the traditional collateral damage thumb ) will be of benefit to my clients!!!

 

Yeah, this is exactly it. The first time I had it, I was struggling with ITB issues. I think it was almost 3 months of pt, every modality you can think of, with little progress. Extremely stubborn TFL. Then he finally used needles, and I was almost well 10 min later. I went in for one more treatment, and that was it.  (I looked it up, it was spring 2008 when that happened, so yes, almost 6 years.) Now he does the needles first.

 

I have had them everywhere, from my neck and shoulders, hips, all up and down my legs... not arms, though. None of them really hurt, except sometimes if you hit a nerve and get a zinger. Tibial nerve, that happens most around there. But that only hurts for a millisecond, and supposedly it's "good for you." Stimulates healing. Or maybe that's what they tell us so we aren't mad.   Adductors aren't my favorite, that's for sure. And occasionally the neck ones were extra uncomfortable. But I figure that it hurts already, so I might as well risk a little pain for a good outcome.... 

post #7 of 30

i have used both dry needling an acupuncture with good success from both. its  a cool thing when you hit "the spot" and the muscles start to fasciculate and then release. 

post #8 of 30

Has helped a lot for me with low back pain when needling the trigger points.

post #9 of 30
Thread Starter 
Wow, very cool to here all the resoundingly positive feedback about dry needling. I'm really excited if only I get there sooner rather than later.

I also brought along some Solomon gear I'll be testing for the EpicSki as well.

I don't recall the drive being this long!!
post #10 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finndog View Post
 

i have used both dry needling an acupuncture with good success from both. its  a cool thing when you hit "the spot" and the muscles start to fasciculate and then release.

 

Yup - have that happen - very cool to have such immediate relief

post #11 of 30

^ very similar to trigger release but without a thumb or elbow jammed into you! :D

post #12 of 30

I've used it twice. Once for muscle spasm in my back that was not responding to other PT and it worked like a charm, although I almost decked the therapist with the ferocity of my "reflex." Subsequent times that reflex was much diminished or none.

 

Second time was help in healing a very badly sprained ankle/foot. It had been months since the event and I could not get rid of the residual pain. One session dry needling and I've been good to go every since.

post #13 of 30
Thread Starter 
I decided to contribute to being a good pt & testing Salomon Gear @ same time. Virginia trail running & hills are less steep & rugged than home in Vermont. I am not quite the singular trigger point I expected!
See below:
post #14 of 30
Thread Starter 


post #15 of 30

so If I by those shoes I can run 8's for 30 miles too? :D

 

nice!  

post #16 of 30
Only if you also rip on snow biggrin.gif
post #17 of 30
Holy crud.
post #18 of 30
Thread Starter 
So, I'm into day 2 of the course & can say for certain this will be a great asset to my practice. Today we got around to treating the legs & the relief from a few needing sessions was remarkable! I could certainly see application to immediately post a long day on the hill!!!
post #19 of 30
One thing I have noticed with dry needling is that I get relief in the paraspinals deeper than with any other therapy--my back has moved better and has felt looser than it has in years. My DPT does it with estim (not sure if it is done with and without), but you can tell me now.

There is a clinic I go to that is primarily physiatrists/PMRs plus one DO and the associated PT clinic. I like the vast array of resouces under one roof without anyone jumping the gun and pointing at surgery as the answer to everything.
post #20 of 30
Thread Starter 


Another tool in the kit.



Sasha Digges PT / ATC : Kineticore instructor & I wrapping up.
post #21 of 30

Is this something you can request while in physical therapy? Or is it like acupuncture where you have to seek out someone and pay for it out-of-pocket?

 

Sidetrack--my horse has a hideously damaged ligament in his hind leg. He is starting a treatment trial today of Regenerative Laser Therapy. It has been used in Italy for several years now. It is proving to HEAL ligament and other soft tissue damage. He will receive 60 treatments over a period of two months. I find that there is great crossover between equine and human injury treatments. Anyone heard of this being used on humans, here in the states?

post #22 of 30
Thread Starter 
Intramuscular dry needling is a technique that is used by manual therapy practitioners and not owned by any particular discipline. This technique differs from acupuncture in that it is not focused on Eastern medicine or restoring Chi or energy cycles. Rather, intramuscular dry needling focuses on releasing trigger points in the muscle bellies and the normalization of soft tissue. This is a mechanical treatment that releases tension via physiological pathways. This treatment is not based on meridians or in any way attempts to compete with acupuncture.

This technique may be used in the muscle bellies or structure where the soft tissue dysfunction is currently active or it may be used centrally to treat along the myotome or dermatomal pathways by accessing the axial segments.

It is one tool in a comprehensive treatment plan that may or may not be appropriate for any particular patient. There are currently only six states that do not have intramuscular dry needling within the scope of practice of physical therapy. Based upon your location and insurance coverage, you may or may not have out-of-pocket expenses for this service.

My personal views on intramuscular dry needling are that it is most certainly an advanced skill for the manual therapy practitioner and should be afforded a great deal of healthy respect. This technique is not right for every therapist and this technique is not right for every patient. The key to success with intramuscular dry needling is in the appropriateness of the application and the proper client and pathophysiological selection process.
post #23 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by contesstant View Post
 

Is this something you can request while in physical therapy? Or is it like acupuncture where you have to seek out someone and pay for it out-of-pocket?

 

Sidetrack--my horse has a hideously damaged ligament in his hind leg. He is starting a treatment trial today of Regenerative Laser Therapy. It has been used in Italy for several years now. It is proving to HEAL ligament and other soft tissue damage. He will receive 60 treatments over a period of two months. I find that there is great crossover between equine and human injury treatments. Anyone heard of this being used on humans, here in the states?

 

I have needling done during physical therapy, so it just falls under my co-pay.

 
As far as lasers, my "shop" started using them back about the same time I started with needles, 5 or 6 years ago. I know it was very new, almost like a study at first, and local pro athletes were coming to have it done. Now, I have friends who have used it. I never have, though.
post #24 of 30

I am definitely going to get some new referrals for PT for my neck/shoulders. Dry needling sounds like it could really be beneficial for me!

post #25 of 30

I'll be getting some on my shoulder next week BTW..

post #26 of 30

I had it done for a minor hamstring problem last year. After assessment, my physio suspected the root of the issue was my low back, and used dry needling on both, as well as glutes. There was one needle she put in my hammie that gave me a momentary feeling of getting a massive electrical shock. The feeling passed quickly, but I'll be honest, it was a bit disconcerting. I went for a 2nd treatment as well, to which I didn't have the same response, thankfully. I think it helped - in conjunction with a few training changes. 

 

This physio (also a training client of mine) said she uses dry needling a lot - not with all patients but close to because she finds it that effective. She did say that some people don't react well to it - another friend of mine who went to her confirmed that - it provoked an anxiety response for her. The physio said that's rare but not entirely abnormal. 

 

Sounds like a great tool to add to your toolbox. 

post #27 of 30
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finndog View Post

so If I by those shoes I can run 8's for 30 miles too? biggrin.gif

nice!  

I'll have to look at the box & packaging when I have more than a headlamp on to go by!
post #28 of 30

btw just had more done on my traps.  solid response. 

post #29 of 30
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finndog View Post

btw just had more done on my traps.  solid response. 

It's solid stuff, I'm amazed at the results. While not for everyone/thing, this a large step forward in toolbox aquisitions.
post #30 of 30

I think it works best for areas where the muscles are locked or not functioning correctly.

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