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Part time ski instructor perks? - Page 2

post #31 of 40

Markojp

I totally understand the need for back to basics drills. This discussion isn't about basics. I think you are way off topic here.

 

This wasn't about great coaches. This is about taking clinics that are being taught by instructors that had just passed their level 2 the previous season.

 

This is about being told to practice skidding more in your wedge  Christie demo. etc. Being told to practice  what many would call dead end moves.

 

JASP

I didn't last very long in that ski school. I coached  their ski school racing program for a while then they made me a NASTAR Pacesetter. Which moved me out of the mainstream ski school.

post #32 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhcooley View Post
 

Any number of questions could be asked at this point. I'll ask one, and politely ask that the Peanut Gallery (:)) restrain themselves until Nord has given us the benefit of his knowledge.

 

What relationship, if any, exists between the pivot slip and the pure arc-to-arc carve?

None.

Pivot Slip is a very old traditional drill.

Pure Arc to Arc turn is a goal.

Some ski school theologies don't use the pivot slip. So it can't be a required drill to get to Arc to Arc Carving.

 

Its probably a good drill if you're going to teach Stivoting.

post #33 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by NordtheBarbarian View Post

Markojp
I totally understand the need for back to basics drills. This discussion isn't about basics. I think you are way off topic here.

This wasn't about great coaches. This is about taking clinics that are being taught by instructors that had just passed their level 2 the previous season.

This is about being told to practice skidding more in your wedge  Christie demo. etc. Being told to practice  what many would call dead end moves.

JASP
I didn't last very long in that ski school. I coached  their ski school racing program for a while then they made me a NASTAR Pacesetter. Which moved me out of the mainstream ski school.

Nord, it's not about great coaches, it's about how YOU can be a great or even a better coach. We've all had great and not so great clinics. In a not so great clinic, I do the drills, etc... thinking about how to apply them to what I'm working on. If the delivery, MA, etc... is lacking, I think about how I might make it better of it was me leading the clinic. Clearly you are too skillled and have too deep an understanding of skiing to need coaching being a Nastar pace setter and all, and especially interesting that you feel pivot slips have no connection to high angle tip to tail carving. They're part of what USSA values as well, and for good reasons that you don't appear to understand. I'm not going to get into a pissing match online. There's no point. You already know as much as you care to learn.
Edited by markojp - 1/2/14 at 4:42am
post #34 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by markojp View Post

Nord, it's not about great coaches, it's about how YOU can be a great and or even better coach. We've all had great and not so great clinics. In a not so great clinic, I do the drills, etc... thinking about how to apply them to what I'm working on. If the delivery, MA, etc... is lacking, I think about how I might make it better of it was me leading the clinic. Clearly you are too skillled and have too deep an understanding of skiing to need coaching being a Nastar pace setter and all, and especially interesting that you feel pivot slips have no connection to high angle tip to tail carving. They're part of what USSA values as well, and for good reasons that you don't appear to understand. I'm not going to get into a pissing match online. There's no point. You already know as much as you care to learn.


Bazinga!!
post #35 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by markojp View Post


Clearly you are too skillled and have too deep an understanding of skiing to need coaching being a Nastar pace setter and all, and especially interesting that you feel pivot slips have no connection to high angle tip to tail carving. They're part of what USSA values as well, and for good reasons that you don't appear to understand. I'm not going to get into a pissing match online. There's no point. You already know as much as you care to learn.

The response that the pivot slip has no connection to arc-to-arc was the response I was expecting.

 

Your comments are appropriate. Anyone who wants to try is welcome to attempt to explain the relationship, and I'd love to see it, but I don't think you'll get anywhere.

post #36 of 40

I don't understand the Relationship part of the question, but maybe I can get Bonus points for listing what Pivot Drift is drill is good for.

1) Steering into turns with matched ski direction. Parallel and low or no tip lead.

2) Upper body lower body separation.

3) Edging control training

4) Some fore aft balance training

post #37 of 40

I'll add to that list:

5) Feeling the core as your reference point, and moving the feet and legs independently of it

6) Feeling the core's path down the hill 

7) Feeling where the path of the feet is, as they turn together under the core; keeping them not forward of the core and not downhill of the core is essential for successful pivot slips

8) Recognizing that there are two paths; the core, and the feet, and getting used to monitoring both.  Real turns allow those two paths to diverge and converge; pivot slips don't.

post #38 of 40

Nord, while coaching seems to be your chosen specialty, others choose to work with customers who have no interest in racing. Without that recreational customer base acting as a feeder program racing simply would cease to exist. So we all serve a common purpose even if we specialize in different segments of that market. Does that mean one segment is superior to another? Hardly, it just means we deal with learners at different stages along their learning journey.

 

Finding the commonality among different maneuvers is pretty easy. Pivot slips teach independent leg steering and edge releases. Skills needed to succeed as a racer at and above your level of racing. Simply said the inability to get out of one turn and into the next cleanly trips up many developing racers. The inability to steer the ski, edge engaged or not is another skill racers need. The spectrums within those skill pools have extreme ends and a lot of middle ground. By clearly identifying the extremes it helps us identify where any turn would fit along that spectrum. Maneuvers that isolate a skill in the extreme thus are related, even if it's just because they represent the polar opposite extremes of that same skill pool. Most don't fall into that category though.

 

I've watched WC winners and their teams training in the beginner corral. Doing the same drills I use for the newbies I teach BTW. I would say they are raising their game by doing that work, not dumbing it down. I'm not saying you are wrong in your opinion as much as saying racers at an even higher level than yours find value in practicing tasks common to their racing on the tour and beginning skiers who will never reach that level of skiing.

post #39 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by justanotherskipro View Post

 

Finding the commonality among different maneuvers is pretty easy. Pivot slips teach independent leg steering and edge releases. Skills needed to succeed as a racer at and above your level of racing. Simply said the inability to get out of one turn and into the next cleanly trips up many developing racers. The ability to steer the ski, edge engaged or not is another skill racers need. The spectrums within those skill pools have extreme ends and a lot of middle ground. By clearly identifying the extremes it helps us identify where any turn would fit along that spectrum. Maneuvers that isolate a skill in the extreme thus are related, even if it's just because they represent the polar opposite extremes of that same skill pool. Most don't fall into that category though.

Thank you, JASP. I've added the bolds. I've also changed "inability to steer the ski..." to "ability to steer the ski...", which I hope is what you meant.

 

I'll go a little further and claim that everything required to do a pivot slip correctly is also required in every true turn, even if that turn is a pure carve. It is the DIRT and intent that changes.

 

The pivot slip requires accurate fore-aft balance, but it also requires accurate lateral balance to maintain the release condition and achieve the required rotary without fore-aft movement.

 

It requires accurate and very subtle edging.

 

The balance and edging blend must combine to allow the slip without requiring any supplemental push at any point in the process.

 

It requires excellent foot-to-foot pressure transfer with just the right timing and rate so that the rotation shows no hesitation at any point but continues smoothly from one side to the other.

 

Although the pivot slip seems to be all about rotary, all of the other skills must be used so that a large muscular rotary effort is not required. If everything else is right, the rotary effort, though present, is not excessive.

 

The pivot slip requires an active inside half. It requires upper-lower body separation. It requires simultaneous edge release of both skis.

 

And more.

 

Even a pure carve requires accurate guiding of the skis to prevent any rotary between release and re-engagement. It requires accurate edging, balance and yes, even steering, so that no slip is introduced at any point in the turn by pushing, leaning, twisting, etc. The carve may be at a different point in the skill spectrum than the pivot slip, but it is surprisingly (to some) closely related.

 

Some might argue that the skill application in the pivot slip is more subtle and more difficult to demonstrate correctly than it is in the carve.

 

And for those who take up teaching part-time, learning from skilled clinicians how both the pivot slip and the pure carve add to their skill set and their enjoyment of the sport is just one of the perks of part-time ski instruction.

post #40 of 40

jasp, I agree with what you're saying, and I think there's a corollary: While ski instruction can act as a feeder program for racing, coaches can bring racing technique and tactics to advanced/expert lessons. A big chunk of race coaching is about "go intent" and generating/maintaining speed, which can sometimes be a big area of opportunity with high end skiers. I wish there were more crossover between the coaching and instruction organizations in my country.

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