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Opinions on avalanche transceivers - Page 2

post #31 of 49

The most important thing with a beacon-- is that you can use it by reflex.

 

Size, having 3 antennae, and battery life are all nice bonuses. But the biggie is that it's intuitive to you-- and becomes more so via practice. It'd be great if you could get to a big store and at least handle a couple, take a look at the dials, move them through search and transmit modes, to figure out what you think will work best-- for you. 

 

The Sportscheck in Munich has a bunch on display that you can handle. Isn't there a branch of the store in Köln too? 

post #32 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1000oaks View Post
 

I attended one of SrfaceHoar's classes last season with an S1+ and experienced the exact issue he mentioned.  Basically, you get intermittent ghost signals while in search mode if you forget to turn off your cell phone.  The display is great and the range is terrific, but you absolutely have to take care of the electronics interference issue when starting a search. 

 

Might put a sticker next to the screen on mine reminding me to shut off the cell phone, lol.

 

 

In my group we all turn our cells phones off when we do our beacon check.

post #33 of 49

It was nerve wracking thinking there was a buried beacon somewhere just on the edge of the S1's range.  The direction of the ghost jumped around, so you could waste a whole lot of time trying to "find it" before remembering to turn off your cell phone.

 

On more point about the sensitivity of the S1+: I used to have a BCA Tracker, and during the beacon range exercise (to give students an idea of the actual range) the S1+ picked up the target beacon from almost twice as far away as students with Trackers.  Could have been conditions were perfect for this particular unit, could be tuned just right, etc.  Doesn't mean all S1's have twice the receiving range of the Tracker, but it was pretty surprising.  Probably why the S1 picks up data signals from cell phones and the Tracker doesn't, lol.


Edited by 1000oaks - 10/14/13 at 11:45pm
post #34 of 49
Does the interference go away in Airplane mode, or only when turned off? Airplane mode is a lot faster to achieve and recover from (if you have to call SAR, for example).
post #35 of 49

Instead of worring about calling SAR, you best bet is to focus on the companion rescue.  Your partners best chance of survival is your ability to find them with a beacon and dig them out a qickly as you can.  Calling SAR at that point just takes up time.  Make the call after the recovery.  Turn your cell phone off, begin your beacon search, dig your partner out, admister immediate first aid (ABC's), and then call SAR.

post #36 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1000oaks View Post
 

It was nerve wracking thinking there was a buried beacon somewhere just on the edge of the S1's range.  The direction of the ghost jumped around, so you could waste a whole lot of time trying to "find it" before remembering to turn off your cell phone.

 

 

I would think future generations of beacons should be able to tell you if they are getting interference from a cell phone and remind you to turn it off on the display.  Even better than a sticker, and that could be a real life saver.  Does anybody with ties to the industry know if that's in the product pipeline anywhere?

 

Thanks for all the great advice in this thread!

post #37 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by SrfaceHoar View Post
 

Instead of worring about calling SAR, you best bet is to focus on the companion rescue.  Your partners best chance of survival is your ability to find them with a beacon and dig them out a qickly as you can.  Calling SAR at that point just takes up time.  Make the call after the recovery.  Turn your cell phone off, begin your beacon search, dig your partner out, admister immediate first aid (ABC's), and then call SAR.

 

It's typically faster to have only 1 person doing the searching once a signal is acquired. Having more people searching doesn't help - they just get in each others way. Based on scenario training, I've found that it's most effective to have the acquiring person begin the search, another person prep a probe and follow the searcher. Two others (if available) follow, giving them plenty of space, and once the fine-grained searching begins, those two prep their shovels. Any others beyond the group size of 4 should be focused on getting help, and should probably stay out of the way. Granted, depending on the group's training, this level of organization doesn't always work (practice lots! you can save minutes!! this way!)

 

Regardless, there's plenty of real life scenarios where calling SAR is useful above searching. I'm pretty sure I've seen statistics around only 1 in 10 avalanches actually result in a full burial without a direct visual clue (leads right to the burial site). This certainly jives with the experiences of me and my partners (most of whom have been in a slide at one point during pretty long careers with no true burials). Injuries can be quite common in these scenarios. Maybe not so much in Europe, where trees are relatively rare, but definitely in the US and Canada.

 

Either way, you didn't answer my question. Does Airplane mode remove the interference? (it's typically faster than turning off a cell phone anyway)

post #38 of 49

Sorry for not answering your initial question. Airplane mode can interfere with the "Search" mode of the beacon.  I have tested airplane mode, regular mode, played music, pushed data, as well as a few other scenarios to understand what affects a beacon.  Each beacon I have tested has shown different affects at different times.  My only conclusion is that the beacon really needs to be turned off when you begin your search.

 

I do agree with you for smaller slides that a single person doing a beacon search is the best method; however, for larger slides, multiple searchers can perform beacon searches together and will be very effective.  As far as your other points, the person doing the beacon search should be the one with a probe and shovel.  The other rescuers available should be doing an Immediate Search probing likely catchment areas and clues found in the debris.  They should not be waiting for the person doing the beacon search to have a hit.  Once a hit is made, yes they will get involved immediatly in the probing and digging.

 

Most of the research and training suggest that you should wait until you finish or exhaust your Immediate Search (including beacon search) before calling SAR unless you have enough resources.  Remember, once you call SAR, you will be on the phone with them for a good 5-10 minutes giving them the information they need to get to you.  Your window is really 15 mins for your partners best chance of recovery and SAR is usually 2 hours away unless you are close to a resort where patrol can respond.  Even then, probably 30 minutes at a minimum.

post #39 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by SrfaceHoar View Post
 

My only conclusion is that the beacon really needs to be turned off when you begin your search.

 

ummmm aaahhhh        can I have one of what he is having

 

 

Happy Friday everyone :beercheer: 

 

 

 

 

I would think in a multi burial situation having additional beacons searching would be preferred.  

post #40 of 49
Multiple beacons are also useful in a search more than 30 meters across.
post #41 of 49

Nice catch.  I guess I started my Friday early.

:dunno

 

turn you phone off for Searching

post #42 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by SrfaceHoar View Post

Nice catch.  I guess I started my Friday early.
th_dunno-1%5B1%5D.gif

turn you phone off for Searching

I meant what you knew.
post #43 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Lindahl View Post

It's typically faster to have only 1 person doing the searching once a signal is acquired.

I think you missed that part. wink.gif (and should probably read always faster)

I fully agree with your suggestions prior to signal acquisition.
post #44 of 49
Thread Starter 

Has anyone tried out the new Pieps DSP Pro/Sport?

 

I am seeing them in stores, but have not been able to find any kind of review online... maybe just too early in the season...

 

scoTt

post #45 of 49
Thread Starter 

OK, so I made a decision and I got a Pieps DSP Pro and a DSP Sport (I needed 2).

 

There seem to be a few extra options on the Pro, but not really big difference (for me). 

 

For those that we Europeanly inclined, Sport Bittl has pretty good prices (Pro 298 / Sport 213 euro) with there member card (I think the card was free). 

This was a better deal than I found elsewhere...

 

The build seems good, and the harness is comfortable (while not skiing at least). 

I am looking forward to some snow now!

 

I'll be in Munich for Christmas with fingers crossed :-).

 

scoTt

post #46 of 49

kicking this back up due to the timing and importance of the conversation.  This has do more with cell phone and iPod interference with Beacons when in the search mode.  Any beacon users need to know this.  

 

Also turn off any sleds and GOPRO's in addition to GPS's.  

 

Bottom Line, its a good idea to leave your cell phone off when in Avi terrain. 

 

 

If anyone has any updates on interference, please post up.  

 

Good article from Beacon review  http://beaconreviews.com/transceivers/interference.asp

 

 

BTW- a pretty cool chart that illustrates interference to beacons


Edited by Finndog - 12/2/14 at 6:45am
post #47 of 49

^^^^^Please explain, the vertical axis is measured in?  reference to study.

post #48 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maineac View Post
 

^^^^^Please explain, the vertical axis is measured in?  reference to study.

 

 

http://www.backcountryaccess.com/2012/11/19/issw-2012-avalanche-beacons-and-electrical-interference/

 

"The x-axis represents the various beacons at distances of 0, 10, 20, 30, and 40 cm from the electrical device. The y-axis is the “Theta” value, which is the difference between that beacon’s normal effective receive range and the effective range it got with the electrical device 0, 10, 20, 30, and 40 cm away. If the colored lines are low on the y-axis, that means that transceiver is less susceptible to noise than the beacons on either side of it on the x-axis. So the Tracker DTS is the least susceptible to noise and the Pieps DSP is the most susceptible.

You’ll also notice that the iPod (orange line) and the GPS (red line) are the biggest culprits in creating interference, which is consistent with our experience.

So we give John an A- on his paper. His findings make good sense, although they could have been presented more clearly. He definitely reinforces what we’ve been saying for years: keep your searching beacon at arm’s length!"


Edited by Finndog - 12/2/14 at 7:01am
post #49 of 49

Just a quick heads-up on a major new redesign of Beacon Reviews -- this summary page is my personal favorite:
http://beaconreviews.com/transceivers/transceiver_reviews.asp
My role in this was relatively small, but then again almost any role would be small compared to the amazing effort that Steve has put into both the individual beacon reviews and the very readable format.

Almost anyone these days can throw up a good-looking website and write up some authoritative-sounding reviews.
However, Steve has been at this longer than anyone, and the breadth and depth of his beacon reviews are far above anything else.

Although the site does have some ads, Steve is completely independent in his assessments.
In addition to the beacon reviews, the website has info on other avy rescue issues too.

And since the site redesign just went live, if you find any typos or other glitches, please do let us know.

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