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What do you teach an upper intermediate skier who wants to get better? - Page 2

post #31 of 58

Quote:

for the record here is what I wrote SE.
 

Actually, TPJ's very much on the right track about smudging turns. One notable exception being when skiing ice though. He's also echoing something Barnes has suggested for years. If the skier hangs onto an edge too long, the next turn is affected. The solution is to do pivot slips on very shallow terrain. The progressive release it teaches is very much the same as what we need when linking turns. Fear of tripping over the little toe edge and going "over the handlebars" keeps these folks comfortably inside the current turn but the cost is the core is too far inside when it should be migrating over the feet and eventually inside the new turn. This in turn upsets the timing of where they can effectively engage the new edges. Said simply, the edge release and re-engagement of the new edges get lumped into one event when they are separate events. One common work around is a stivot entry, another is to quickly thrust the core into the new turn, and a third is an upward thrusting of the core. All three present challenges on steeper terrain though. Excessive pivoting makes edge purchase more difficult (necessitates the strong edge check at the end of the turn), thrusting the core around and doing so accurately is difficult even at a true expert level, and upward releases eliminate the possibility of engaging the new edges until the skis have more pressure.

Progressive releases and the smooth flowing quality they produce thus become one of the major differences in ability levels. Take a TA, or an examiner to the steeps and this willingness to flow like water is clearly obvious. Take a level 3 and below there and it's likely you won't see that same level of smooth flow.

I stand by everything I wrote in this post. Seems you are putting words into my post about absolutes and then missing the comparison between a 3 and a 3E. Should a 3 find it offensive that I said they likely won't show the same level of flow as an examiner? I seriously doubt anyone would find that offensive. Except you of course. Why is beyond me but the rest of post twenty described some activities and "how to's" just like LF was asking about. So far I haven't seen anything like that from you. Just a whole lot of criticism of me based on some imaginary comments I never made.

 

As far as your post, it contained three almosts when you described what that certification means. Maybe it's you who doesn't fully understand how low on the totem pole 3 is. It's not world class like the folks you mentioned, nor does anyone represent it as such. That doesn't mean it isn't important, it is within the context of a teaching pro. It means they have exhibited a level of accuracy and understanding that meets the standards as set by the ed staff for that division.

 

Hopefully we can move on here and get back to LF's topic SE.

post #32 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metaphor_ View Post

 

Hmm, I think I got overly riled at the idea of telling learners to get off their edges. On re-reading, it doesn't sound like you want learners to stay off their edges, but to instead learn to release and engage gradually. And in that case I'll agree with your entire post. 

 

I don't want to get into anything here as I believe we are now on the same page here.  

 

I think of "telling people to get OFF their edges" as a tool to approach the skill from another direction.  It's my feeling that most people focus on edge engagement and don't think much at all about the edge release.  I think that an accurate edge release to initiate the turn, a release that features an aggressive movement of the CM across the skis, really sets up the rest of the turn whether that turn is carved or "skidded".  Edges are security and many people make their edge changes so quickly that it really is like flicking a light switch.  IMO this fast edge change and the rapid loading of pressure can cause problems with things like turn shape, undesirable skidding, and edge chatter at the bottom of the turn.  I find it ironic that when an edge is chattering or breaking loose, the fix is often less pressure or the same pressure spread out over a longer time.  I think of these things as DIRT and not new techniques.  Most people showing up for Mountain X lessons at JH already have better skills than they think they do.  I like to find ways to get more fun and utility from what they brought to the lesson instead of trying to rebuild them.

 

JASP may not like this...  A few years ago I had a woman in one of my level 8 classes who I thought was a very good skier.  She expressed a desire to ski challenging off-piste, trees in particular.   She also expressed a healthy fear of hitting a tree.  Early in the lesson she commented that I was the first instructor who ever asked her to let go of her edges and went on to tell a sad tale of a week long woman's clinic she did in Vail.  Her instructor at Vail made it clear that she didn't like her skiing and spent the whole week trying to rebuild her from the feet up.  At the end of the week she felt as though she was skiing worse than when she started and her confidence had taken a huge hit  They also never skied the "good" stuff.  It seems that what I was telling her was the opposite of what this other instructor had been telling her.  At the end of the day with me she was thrilled about the terrain we skied, how she skied it, and how she felt about her skiing in general.  She came back and skied a few more days with me and we did some carving stuff which I thought she was also very good at.  I am sure that whoever she had at Vail was a experienced and competent instructor.  I wasn't there and didn't see what went on during that week.  I CAN say that the other instructor missed the boat by not making the lesson fun or making their student want to return.

 

I think of taking the "let the edges go" approach to refining edge control as being similar in concept to the Sports Diamond that Weems has developed.  When you get stuck on one "polarity" you switch emPHAsis to the opposite polarity and it can help break out of an established undesirable movement pattern.

post #33 of 58

TPJ, liked your post and especially the dimmer switch turns/technique.  Sometimes I am asked to describe good skiing the whole mountain and will now have a much better vocabulary when doing so.  Really good skiers don't carve all the time.  thanks - love the clarity.   Pete

post #34 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by tetonpwdrjunkie View Post

 

I don't want to get into anything here as I believe we are now on the same page here.  

 

I think of "telling people to get OFF their edges" as a tool to approach the skill from another direction.  It's my feeling that most people focus on edge engagement and don't think much at all about the edge release.  I think that an accurate edge release to initiate the turn, a release that features an aggressive movement of the CM across the skis, really sets up the rest of the turn whether that turn is carved or "skidded".  Edges are security and many people make their edge changes so quickly that it really is like flicking a light switch.  IMO this fast edge change and the rapid loading of pressure can cause problems with things like turn shape, undesirable skidding, and edge chatter at the bottom of the turn.  I find it ironic that when an edge is chattering or breaking loose, the fix is often less pressure or the same pressure spread out over a longer time.  I think of these things as DIRT and not new techniques.  Most people showing up for Mountain X lessons at JH already have better skills than they think they do.  I like to find ways to get more fun and utility from what they brought to the lesson instead of trying to rebuild them.

 

Really interesting!  I do think I sometimes have a tendancy to put too much emphasis on  edges... I can see it when I switch to bumps and tree skiing after some carving... 

post #35 of 58
I don't disagree at all TPJ.I use the diamond all the time and stress edge releases and near flat edging skills all the time. You can't set yourself up for success in the next turn if you wait until you start it.
post #36 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by justanotherskipro View Post

I don't disagree at all TPJ.I use the diamond all the time and stress edge releases and near flat edging skills all the time. You can't set yourself up for success in the next turn if you wait until you start it.

 

Why is this site worth reading?  Because every now and again a piece of gold pops up.  Underlined...is a great example of gold. 

post #37 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by zentune View Post

   IMVHO the mental block as described above can be among the toughest parts of skiing to overcome for a skier aspiring to advance. Trying to convince someone to allow their mass to precede their skis into the new turn thus creating a sinuous flow from turn to turn with no checking can be a difficult task, at least in my relatively limited teaching experience. I notice that large number of people having a very difficult time trusting that their skis will come 'round to catch them and so (perhaps subconciously) seek to avoid such an encounter altogether. Defensive skiing.

 

   The above suggestions are all great and all I could maybe add is that by slowing things down a tad and making large radius, across the hill turns on lower/medium angled pitches can help certain folks find their toppling "comfort zone." Perhaps even on a slope/pitch which they consider to be below their own perceived comfort zone. Have someone try something new on a slope they routinely and/or easily ski and they may suddenly find it more difficult.

 

 

   zenny

Zentune, I wholeheartedly agree with you here!  And I trace this back to how people learned or were taught to ski using active weight shifts and braking wedges, and stem initiations.  They never learned to cross over their feet and trust the free fall feeling.  This is why we are all talking about "releasing edges" and avoiding braking, defensive movements in beginner lessons.  Why can't we just focus on these very specific skills, in their very basic form, in beginner lessons!?  I believe most of us here on these Epicski forums get it, but the masses of instructors haven't got a clue and it is our job to keep their noses to the fire!

 

At the intermediate level I like your idea of slowing things down and using large radius turns!  We need to help them enjoy and embrace the acceleration segment of the turns so they don't feel a need to over pivot, or stem the initiations.  Using long turns on easy unthreatening terrain is a great way to embrace the acceleration and discover how the turn finish works to control their speed.  "Ski the Slow Line Fast"!

 

If we can get their heads in an offensive state of mind and bring their confidence up so they are looking for speed rather than trying to avoid it, they will be in a better balanced stance before the fall line which in turn builds more confidence!  How fast can you ski up the hill!?  How far can you ski up the hill?  Once they solve this riddle their mental state begins to make that paradigm shift to offensive skiing.  Keep them on easy terrain and look for speed!

post #38 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skidude72 View Post

I agree with the caveats above - but keeping those in mind, I would say the most common thing lacking in skiers at this stage is the ability to flex and extend.  I find I spend most of time working on this with skiers at this level.

 

By fixing this - I notice a strong improvement in overall stance and balance and pivoting. 

 

Could you elaborate on this a bit more because I think it would be very helpful for us to talk about flexion and extension.  This is another area where I believe many instructors miss the boat at the beginner level and consequently affects intermediate plateaus.  Instill the proper flexion extension movements early on and we can avoid some intermediate plateaus.  "proper" is the key word here as many instructors cause more problems than benefits with the flexion/extension they are advocating.


Edited by bud heishman - 9/2/13 at 7:20pm
post #39 of 58
Thanks bud! We (me and my mentor) really feel this is a very important and yet sometimes overlooked consideration. smile.gif

zenny
post #40 of 58
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bud heishman View Post

 

Could you elaborate on this a bit more because I think it would be very helpful for us to talk about flexion and extension.  This is another area where I believe many instructors miss the boat at the beginner level and consequently affects intermediate plateaus.  Instill the proper flexion extension movements early on and we can avoid some intermediate plateaus.  "proper" is the key word here as many instructors cause more problems and benefits with the flexion/extension they are advocating.

 

Second that -- I'd also like to hear more of Skidude's attitude towards flex/extend.   

post #41 of 58

I would like to hear more from both points of view. 

 

What is a good flexion/extension lesson more specifically?

 

What are the things Bud feels are coming out of over zealous emphasis on flexion/extension?

 

My own perspective is that I think I do see a lot of skier stuck in statuesque skiing without enough flexion/extension, but I also see a lot of skiers popping and pivoting their way around the mountain.  So I think extension and flexion are important, but its an area to approach carefully.

 

I think somewhere in the finer detail is a place in the middle where we really want to be, but an open discussion about the advantages and pitfalls would be very good.

post #42 of 58

I look forward to sharing my thoughts but I will wait for SkiDude's thoughts first as I don't want to misdirect his intent with his post.

post #43 of 58
Proper amounts of any movement needs to be discussed as well. As a general rule RoM increases as a function of dynamic need. It's why less dynamic turns like we see in the beginner corral tend to exhibit less RoM. When that same RoM gets ingrained and then incorporated in more dynamic turns, the result is what many here have described
post #44 of 58

Like many things in skiing, edge engagement must be viewed as a spectrum. At one end, we have flat ski maneuvers such as the pivot slip; at the other, the pure arc-to-arc carve. They all require the same fundamentals.

 

Many skiers are so fixated on edge engagement (for a variety of reasons) that they forget to flatten the ski and allow it to slip when appropriate. Instead, they end up inducing slip by pushing ever harder against an engaged edge. This behavior is common among intermediate skiers. For many, the release feels risky. The edged ski feels secure. So, to initiate a new turn, they stem or do a rotary push off instead of simply releasing.

 

One of the keys is to let go of the previous turn. Use the entire spectrum of edging.

 

Give in. Allow. Gravity will help you turn. Fighting gravity is unnecessary and entirely too much work. GO.

post #45 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhcooley View Post

 

Give in. Allow. Gravity will help you turn. Fighting gravity is unnecessary and entirely too much work. GO.

 

I like this a lot. I always say to my students "Don't fight the mountain. It is much bigger than you, and will win every time."

post #46 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by bud heishman View Post
 

 

Could you elaborate on this a bit more because I think it would be very helpful for us to talk about flexion and extension.  This is another area where I believe many instructors miss the boat at the beginner level and consequently affects intermediate plateaus.  Instill the proper flexion extension movements early on and we can avoid some intermediate plateaus.  "proper" is the key word here as many instructors cause more problems than benefits with the flexion/extension they are advocating.

 

 

In my experience with intermediate skiers I typically find that it is very common for skiers to have no flexion/extension at all - hence adding this skill greatly improves the skiers ability.  Here are few key points:

 

1) when teaching "proper" flexion/extension I focus on the flexion of ankle/knee/hip but emphasis and get them to explore how through flexion they can shift their weight aft, fore or neutral, and equally how through extension they can shift their weight fore/aft or neutral.  At this skill level, I tend to get them to focus on keeping neutral, and using thier new found flexion/extension to help manage fore/aft balance.

 

2) Timing of flexion/extension...ie "when to flex/extend", is often somthing that alot of time is spent (50%?) on.  Step 1 - get them moving, Step 2, get them moving at the right time.  A by prodocut of this then is also "rate", usually I find skiers when being introduced to this, tend to do it all too quick...especially the flex.

 

3) I think flexion/extension is critical to the idea of "edge release" that many here are advocating.  Keep in mind the debates of ILE vs. OLF....regardless of what side of that debate you fall...neither are possible without flexion/extension.

 

4) While relevant to skiing with optimum efficiency for advanced skiers, the "amount" of flexion/extension at this stage is generally not relevant.  In almost all cases i have found "more is better" - at least when intially introducing this.  A skier who traditionally has moved none at all...will find even 1 vertical inch of "up/down" to feel like a lot.  Hence I often work to get them to 3 inches or 6....not much risk of over doing it with a range of motion limited to this.....however as the skier advances, of course getting the right amount becomes a much more relevant discussion.

post #47 of 58
Quote:
 (Have you ever noticed that people who are not interested in speed control don't take as many lessons, even if they don't ski well?)

 

Duh!  It's easy to go fast...

 

Some great stuff here.  :popcorn

post #48 of 58

Excuse me for suggesting a "proper" way to flex, which is a bit inaccurate!  There is no one correct way rather, coordinating lateral flexion (where the hips get closer to the snow) with vertical flexion (where the hips get closer to the feet) takes some time and effort to do well.

 

A few folks here have commented on flexion/extension being key to edge release and I agree.  I also agree flexion extension is a key to good balance fore/aft as well as laterally.  Where I see instructors dropping the ball in lower level lessons is how they apply flexion movements.

 

Consider this, if we teach a beginner making wedge turns to flex both ankles and knees equally left and right, their stance remains very square.  If we, heaven forbid, teach them to actively weight their outside ski with accentuated flexion on the outside leg, they will begin to rotate even farther creating a stronger outside half than inside half.  If on the other hand we begin to encourage the flexion of expert skiers where, from a gliding wedge, we develop a "lateral" movement of the hips, flexing the inside ankle and knee more than the outside, creating a long leg short leg, the skier uses lateral flexion to balance against the turning forces. Granted, the turning forces are low here but nevertheless a perfect time to develop proper movements.  There really is little need for arbitrary vertical flexion at the beginner levels as they are not absorbing any terrain features or high turning forces to release edges in transition, the primary role of vertical flexion. 

 

So I tend to think about flexion/extension movements enlisting two different directions with two distinctly different purposes!  We basically move the hips laterally, (ie: flex the inside leg while maintaining a longer stronger outside leg) to balance against the forces, and that we flex "VERTICALLY" to adjust pressure and release edges.  With vertical flexion, if we are in the middle of a dynamic turn with a long outside leg and a bump appears in our path we have full travel in our suspension system to absorb the irregularity, or when we are ready to release our CoM into the new turn, we can flex the outside leg.  So an expert skier combines these two vectors of flexion to blend as needed to manage pressure and balance against turning forces.

 

Back to the basic turns of beginners, I see little need for vertical flexion and in fact, encouraging it at this level encourages unwanted rotation and an aft weight shift.  Conversely, encouraging lateral flexion develops a strong inside half and turns finished in a slight countered position ready for a move into the new turn.  Ineffective and mistimed flexion movements  are problematic for many intermediate skiers, rendering them into the back seat, because they do not understand the purpose of the flexion they are using.

post #49 of 58

 

Discuss. :)

post #50 of 58
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bud heishman View Post
 

Excuse me for suggesting a "proper" way to flex, which is a bit inaccurate!  There is no one correct way rather, coordinating lateral flexion (where the hips get closer to the snow) with vertical flexion (where the hips get closer to the feet) takes some time and effort to do well.

 

A few folks here have commented on flexion/extension being key to edge release and I agree.  I also agree flexion extension is a key to good balance fore/aft as well as laterally.  Where I see instructors dropping the ball in lower level lessons is how they apply flexion movements.

 

Consider this, if we teach a beginner making wedge turns to flex both ankles and knees equally left and right, their stance remains very square.  If we, heaven forbid, teach them to actively weight their outside ski with accentuated flexion on the outside leg, they will begin to rotate even farther creating a stronger outside half than inside half.  If on the other hand we begin to encourage the flexion of expert skiers where, from a gliding wedge, we develop a "lateral" movement of the hips, flexing the inside ankle and knee more than the outside, creating a long leg short leg, the skier uses lateral flexion to balance against the turning forces. Granted, the turning forces are low here but nevertheless a perfect time to develop proper movements.  There really is little need for arbitrary vertical flexion at the beginner levels as they are not absorbing any terrain features or high turning forces to release edges in transition, the primary role of vertical flexion. 

 

So I tend to think about flexion/extension movements enlisting two different directions with two distinctly different purposes!  We basically move the hips laterally, (ie: flex the inside leg while maintaining a longer stronger outside leg) to balance against the forces, and that we flex "VERTICALLY" to adjust pressure and release edges.  With vertical flexion, if we are in the middle of a dynamic turn with a long outside leg and a bump appears in our path we have full travel in our suspension system to absorb the irregularity, or when we are ready to release our CoM into the new turn, we can flex the outside leg.  So an expert skier combines these two vectors of flexion to blend as needed to manage pressure and balance against turning forces.

 

Back to the basic turns of beginners, I see little need for vertical flexion and in fact, encouraging it at this level encourages unwanted rotation and an aft weight shift.  Conversely, encouraging lateral flexion develops a strong inside half and turns finished in a slight countered position ready for a move into the new turn.  Ineffective and mistimed flexion movements  are problematic for many intermediate skiers, rendering them into the back seat, because they do not understand the purpose of the flexion they are using.

 

I like what you're saying here, Bud.  What do you do about that two-footed foragonal "extend to release" business?   

post #51 of 58

Your DIRT may vary?  This is like the debate over ILE "inside leg extension" vs. OLF "outside leg flexion", there are shades of grey.

 

Note that if you have to forcibly extend off your uphill ski to release your edges, I would argue that you were too far back and/or inside the old turn with your weight/head to begin. 

 

The lateral flexion I talk about is not a tipping of the whole body or banking motion rather the hips move inside the turn farther than the head, more of a ")" than an "/"

post #52 of 58

beginner levels is not, IMHO the right time to get into ILE.  Good quality ILE is really dependent on turn forces and toppling that can come out of the very slightest nudge of the uphill ski.  If you try to do this at super slow speeds you will undoubtedly develop a tendency to push your CoM across, which is not the desirable goal of ILE.  That is a fine example of why too much emphasis at an early level on extension movements can lead to wrong things.   I do not like teaching them the idea of moving their CoM around a lot using leg extension, and especially if that is a key move for initiating turns.

 

I'm in complete agreement with bud about avoiding vertical movements and emphasis on releasing the downhill ski rather then leaning out over the outside ski to make a wedge turn.  Just relax and release the downhill leg/ski.  This is an extremely important concept and it is definitely possible to teach it to first timers.  But should that really be classified as flexion/extension skill?  There can be a bit of downhill leg flexion but its really more about flattening the ski at this level then anything else, and again I don't like the idea of teaching them to move their CoM around too much.  Fore/aft balance ok....

 

There are a number of points where the light bulb goes on when they realize that flattening that inside ski helps to keep their tips from crossing while wedging, a basic survival thing, but I have found that talking about that downhill ski as being like a gate they need to let down to start a turn, and working through what they need to do with their ankle and knee...really has helped them to initiate wedge turns in an effortless way and in a way that will lead them to much better stuff later because they are learning to release the downhill ski.  This often leads them away from wedging altogether very quickly.

post #53 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by borntoski683 View Post
 

 

I'm in complete agreement with bud about avoiding vertical movements and emphasis on releasing the downhill ski rather then leaning out over the outside ski to make a wedge turn.  Just relax and release the downhill leg/ski.  This is an extremely important concept and it is definitely possible to teach it to first timers.  But should that really be classified as flexion/extension skill?  There can be a bit of downhill leg flexion but its really more about flattening the ski at this level....

 

   I like what you say here, BTS. Try and go for too much movement and signals are going to get crossed. KISS. I suppose one could call this sort of a "prerequisite"  for future flex/extend skills though. Getting to know and feel what the skis are doing underneath them can later become one of the cues that tells them when it's time to move into the new turn...and how (with further coaching of course).

 

  At the more intermediate level, I do like what Skidude says. I've seen people try to get a big movement (up/down) when in reality it's just a teensy bit...coax an exaggeration out of them and it likely still won't be that much (even with some L2's we were working with last year)...

 

   zenny

post #54 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthias99 View Post
 

 

Duh!  It's easy to go fast...

 

Some great stuff here.  :popcorn

 

I was and still am one of those people. I ski to enjoy sensation to me that is the feeling of going fast. People who are not afriad of speed are WAY easier to teach.

 

its easy to go fast till you put obstacles in the way.

 

I never ever teach speed control to students, I give them skills and tactics what they do with them is up to them.

post #55 of 58
Yup my youngest was one of those, that is why she got put in race club. Nothing cures that better than downhill racing. It scared my wife to see her ripping that fast but after watching the x-game super pipe, 70+ on the snow seemed to be less scary of the two.
post #56 of 58

When I am teaching upper intermediates, and focusing on flexion extension, I've found that the biggest struggle they often have is often the location of their flexion and extension. Frequent breaks at the waist, or not keeping complementary angles throughout the joints are hallmarks of a skier new to the flexion extension game. To help correct that, I will sometimes do some flexion extension drills in boots. When on skis, the length of the ski can act as a crutch that can mask incorrect/imbalanced joint flexion. Off of the skis, any imbalance in flexion or extension will pretty quickly lead to the student ending upon their keyster. I've done drills in boots such as hopping and freezing on landing, getting into a racer's tuck, or one footed squats. It quickly reveals to the student the correct way to keep in a balanced stance while utilizing flexion and extension through a turn. To illustrate how that works in a turn, I'll have a student lean their shoulder against a wall, and then stand themselves up to a balanced stance without using their hands or moving their feet. They quickly learn that incorrect use of flexion through any of their joints will mean they are unable to complete the task without shifting their foot.

 

It all goes back to the fact that flexion and extension is probably the active skill we use which is most heavily tied to our balance. Once I have established this fact, I can start playing DIRTy.

post #57 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by freeski919 View Post
 

When I am teaching upper intermediates, and focusing on flexion extension, I've found that the biggest struggle they often have is often the location of their flexion and extension. Frequent breaks at the waist, or not keeping complementary angles throughout the joints are hallmarks of a skier new to the flexion extension game. To help correct that, I will sometimes do some flexion extension drills in boots. When on skis, the length of the ski can act as a crutch that can mask incorrect/imbalanced joint flexion. Off of the skis, any imbalance in flexion or extension will pretty quickly lead to the student ending upon their keyster. I've done drills in boots such as hopping and freezing on landing, getting into a racer's tuck, or one footed squats. It quickly reveals to the student the correct way to keep in a balanced stance while utilizing flexion and extension through a turn. To illustrate how that works in a turn, I'll have a student lean their shoulder against a wall, and then stand themselves up to a balanced stance without using their hands or moving their feet. They quickly learn that incorrect use of flexion through any of their joints will mean they are unable to complete the task without shifting their foot.

 

It all goes back to the fact that flexion and extension is probably the active skill we use which is most heavily tied to our balance. Once I have established this fact, I can start playing DIRTy.

This symptom could also be indicative of equipment misalignments on the sagittal plane or boots too stiff.  If perhaps the boot cuff angle is too upright and/or delta angle too flat, the skier will be unable to get a leverage advantage over the boot in order to flex his/her ankles and consequently need to flex at the waist as this is the only other point the body can flex forward, to find balance.  Correct the imbalance caused by these inappropriate angles and performance will improve, if in fact this is the cause.  If the boot is too stiff for the skill level, it needs to be softened in some manner to permit ankle flexion.  My point in this diatribe is the cause of flexion issues, or many skiing issues for that matter, are not always technique and therefore can not always be corrected with technique exercises.  Our bodies will compensate however necessary to find balance and a trained eye will pick up on these compensatory movements.  Developing an understanding of how equipment angles affect movements will open a whole new level of skier analysis skills.  Or it could just be poor technique...

post #58 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by borntoski683 View Post
  I have found that talking about that downhill ski as being like a gate they need to let down to start a turn, and working through what they need to do with their ankle and knee...really has helped them to initiate wedge turns in an effortless way and in a way that will lead them to much better stuff later because they are learning to release the downhill ski.  This often leads them away from wedging altogether very quickly.

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