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advice needed for powder skis - Page 2

post #31 of 45

You could also take a look at the BlisterGear reviews of the Praxis Concept.

Hav skied that and was very impressed by the versatility from heavy crud to hardpack to slush (unfortunately didn't have a chance to get it into anything I'd call powder).

post #32 of 45
Thread Starter 

mfa, thanks for the heads-up. Man, I love all you episki posters for your insight and passion. 

I talked to Luke from Moment and was very helpful, indicating the Bibby Pro 184 would be OK for my height/weight (5'10,144#") -- and still in stock. The 176 cm is there too, it seems.

ON3P' Jeffrey is sold out. 

Starthaus customer service recommended Helldorado in 177. I am not excited by the Patron or Unleashed because of their higher flex.

So these are my options now. Tough to decide. Both skis would provide nice turny float, chop busting, and more than decent hardpack edge hold. I don't care about  groomers or bumps.

How would the tail rocker and stiffness affect playfulness in trees ?

post #33 of 45
The Helldo would be a great option. As far as the rise in the tail, that will add to the nimbleness in the trees, I do like the shape of the tail, its wider width vs. a pintail gives you better float and balance in deeper snow too.
post #34 of 45
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post

The Helldo would be a great option. As far as the rise in the tail, that will add to the nimbleness in the trees, I do like the shape of the tail, its wider width vs. a pintail gives you better float and balance in deeper snow too.

Phil, for 144 lbs and 5'10", would 177cm provide sufficient flotation at even lower speeds, in the trees, and  stability on hardpack, or is 185cm  better ? Any advice for mounting point, considering that I do only moderate jumping off naturals with a litlle bit of switch, and no park?

post #35 of 45

I definitely appreciate more tail with rocker and no pintail for powder-- in fact I think it's almost ideal. Rocker prevents hooky-ness and makes swiveling in tight places a breeze. More tail (a more center mount) helps give the tail some ooomph when you need it and when coupled with rocker prevents hooky-ness. 

 

I don't link pintails in powder of otherwise because I don't like the position it puts the ski in relation to  the snow surface. 

 

All of this is very personal though. Some people love a flat, short, hard tail. Some love pintails. But it makes a huge difference to me... trying out at least a variation of the options is a great thing.

post #36 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by john0 View Post

 

My data:  40 yo., 5'10" and 144 lbs., advanced-to-expert (level 8-9, I like to believe). 

Love steeps, deep snow, trees, and off-piste. Prefer quick, slarvy, turns at medium speeds and 

occasionally to let it loose. Dislike moguls due to knees issues. I love to jump and dream one day 

of doing 180s (work in progress). Not a park person. Dislike hardpack, but enjoy steep groomers.

 

I need a ski that works nicely in UT powder, cuts vigorously through chop, tracked powder, and (sometimes frozen) crud,

is stable at all speeds, and is playful/turny to fit my above profile. Twin-tip with a 107-115mm waist and a 177-187cm length, medium flex, tip/tail rocker, and some camber, maybe,

 

I would go to 185cm but considering my 144 lbs., the 177-181 range could be enough for flotation. (What about stability?)

At you weight, I would think a wider ski is going to give you plenty of float if in the 177-183 range.  If you like deep snow and trees, a reverse camber ski will make you very happy, but isn't that friendly on hard packed snow. Another great deep snow/tree ski shape will be a ski with a bunch of tip rocker in it (thinking like my Armada TSTs, which are a blast in trees). Those type of shapes can/should be skied in the longer lengths, due to the shape not giving you as much running length on firm snow.

 

I too like to do more slarvy turns in pow and have found that a narrower tail or pin tail type shape allows me to do that type of turn really easily. With those comments in mind and recommending a ski I know will ski the entire mountain, look at PM Gear Lhasa Pows, Atomic Automatics or ON3P Billy Goats. These are the best examples of the particular shape I think you would really love, per the bolded comments above.

 

Have fun shopping.

post #37 of 45

If you can only travel with one pair of skis, add my vote for the Bonafides. Of the skis I own and all that I have owned, they are hands down the best I have ever had for covering everything I might encounter on a trip. Of course, we all wish for powder days, and they favor that end of the spectrum. They are great for groomers. Very good in bumps, which I have been gaining a real fondness for in the last couple of years. And, really, who among us except the racers, on race skis, really go seeking ice? I don't fault any ski which is not purpose built for firm snow for not carving on boiler plate. BTW, I am 5'8", 140# and the 175s are perfect for me.

post #38 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by john0 View Post

Phil, for 144 lbs and 5'10", would 177cm provide sufficient flotation at even lower speeds, in the trees, and  stability on hardpack, or is 185cm  better ? Any advice for mounting point, considering that I do only moderate jumping off naturals with a litlle bit of switch, and no park?
The 177 will be fine for you and and $389 for them, how wrong can you be? At far as mounting, since you do land switch from time to time...maybe go "plus1" for the mont point, but the tails on these are real strong so I wouldn't worry too much about it.
post #39 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post


The 177 will be fine for you and and $389 for them, how wrong can you be? At far as mounting, since you do land switch from time to time...maybe go "plus1" for the mont point, but the tails on these are real strong so I wouldn't worry too much about it.

 

 

Phil,

 

That's a one hell of a deal on those Bonafides 

post #40 of 45
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by near nyquist View Post

 

 

Phil,

 

That's a one hell of a deal on those Bonafides 

@nyquist: the $389 price was for (blemished) Helldorados from Starthaus. A great deal, indeed.

However, I decided to go with Bibby Pros and ordered a 2012-13, 184cm, leftover pair from Moment. The Nordicas could have been a bit too stiff and heavy for me. And the Bibby Pro reviews were too damn nice to Moment, with no negative comments.

I will post an update after my trip.

It is excruciatingly hard to decide based on reviews, with no hands-on (skis-on?) demo. Each skier skis a bit differently and has a different set of parameters. You have to see if your parameters fit somewhat with the reviewer's.and their circumstances. Can't let majority decide because you then miss small batch products that might be great. But it's hardly a majority, with so many great products.  Relying on a demo is also tricky because many great products don't get represented. That's the curse of the skier who lives far from any ski area.

Thanks, epic skiers, for educating me in the fine arts of rockered tails, detuned tips, and reversed sidecut.

post #41 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by john0 View Post

@nyquist: 
the $389 price was for (blemished) Helldorados from Starthaus. A great deal, indeed.

However, I decided to go with Bibby Pros and ordered a 2012-13, 184cm, leftover pair from Moment. The Nordicas could have been a bit too stiff and heavy for me. And the Bibby Pro reviews were too damn nice to Moment, with no negative comments.

I will post an update after my trip.

It is excruciatingly hard to decide based on reviews, with no hands-on (skis-on?) demo. Each skier skis a bit differently and has a different set of parameters. You have to see if your parameters fit somewhat with the reviewer's.and their circumstances. Can't let majority decide because you 
then 
miss small batch products that might be great. But it's hardly a majority, with so many great products.  
Relying on a demo is also tricky because many great products don't get represented. That's the curse of the skier who lives far from any ski area.

Thanks, epic skiers, for educating me in the fine arts of rockered tails, detuned tips, and reversed sidecut.

Knew it was too good to be true
Still a good deal for the helldorados

Let us know how the Bibbys work for you
post #42 of 45

I think, FWIT, that Moment Bibby is not the right ski, at least 2014 version, it is pretty wide and burly ski with 120 underfoot,

you migh take a peek at Moment Exit World (their new "lighter" ski made from Moment Bibby last year mold) or Nordica El Capo, it is about 107 underfoot (enough for 2+ foot-deep snow) or 4FRNT Devastator, both are charges somehow related to Blizzard Cochise, but have no flat tail and I think some camber underfoot

 

--- Please ignore it, I have not noticed that OP purchased Bibby 2013 (great Ski!!!!!)

post #43 of 45
So, how did the Bibby's work out?
post #44 of 45
Thread Starter 

The  snow conditions in UT during the Christmas 2013 break varied between hard chop/crud, sun-baked crust over old powder, to hardpack and soft groomers. I arrived 4-5 days after the major storm in December and after a few warmer days had hardened the top snow layer. Thankfully, 2" of fresh on the last day gave me (just a)  taste of how well the Bibby Pros would manage soft conditions. A storm eventually came a week after I left. Lucky locals.

The Moments were awesome, blasting happily over the nastiest crud. Super damp, stable, and easy to turn at medium and higher speeds. Turning at low speeds involved some work. Kind-a slow edge to edge for slalom turns on groomers.

I noticed tails washing slightly (from the pronounced tail rocker) when driven hard in a forward position on  steep hardpack. Otherwise, they performed solidly on hardpack, with confidence-inspiring edge hold. A balanced position works best.

Interestingly, I had the most fun doing GS-sized  turns on frozen, deep  crud. These skis cut through the hard choppy snow like a knife through butter and allow you carved or slarvy turns in tough conditions. I could not reach their  speed limit. Also, no matter how deep and irregular the frozen chop or how fast on hardpack, the tips did not chatter at all. 

Build quality is OK. Bases still look clean. The topsheet is brittle and chips easily. 

This would be a great choice for non-beginners who want a go-anywhere ski without compromising powder performance. I was mostly  impressed by their dampness and stability in irregular, choppy hard snow. Keep in mind I did not go very fast, nor spent relevant time on hardpack, moguls, powder, or jumping around.

post #45 of 45

Nice review, John0.  It's always nice to hear how things worked out.

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