or Connect
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Ski Gear Discussion › alright alright I was a hardheaded knucklehead last year (as far as taking advice goes) BUT!
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

alright alright I was a hardheaded knucklehead last year (as far as taking advice goes) BUT! - Page 3

post #61 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by twochordcool View Post

Yeah, I'd only be interested in a group lesson if it was aimed at intermediates - people who have a good idea what they are doing but aren't doing it exactly right. I'm not wasting money to have someone teach me square one.

But I'd totally be into group lessons if it were aimed at intermediates that knew the basics already.

You realize that at some point we all have to slow down and deconstruct, don't you? Even the very best do, and more often than you'd think. There are no exceptions in any high skills based sport. Chances are huge that you haven't nailed the basics well enough to progress to the next level. If you aren't ready to be a student and dial it back if asked (there will be both reason and a logical progression and outcome for doing so) there isn't much point in taking lessons. Don't be a stubborn knucklehead. smile.gif
post #62 of 95

Twochordcool,

 

I'm at the higher end of ability and have taken group lessons and still learned something new even from beginner lessons (that's the purpose of the lessons) or in some cases relearned something of importance that I've forgotten over the years.

 

Based on your comments, your skiing ability does not match your skill level, by that I mean you ski well enough to realize that there is something better but don't have the overall skill set match the level you are skiing at  (I'll bet that most of the top skiers on this site have gone through this stage at one point or another) and are trying to solve it with equipment.

 

Take the group lessons to start you'll learn several ways:

 

  1. What the instructor is teaching.
  2. What the classmates are learning or not learning (this is very insightful and great helps in your own learning process)
  3. How to express what you don't know when you see other people making the same errors and seeing the solutions given to them.
  4. Helping a classmate solve an easy problem (you just learned to teach).

 

Get past this stage now you will be ready for what a one on one with an instructor can provide, until than by your own admission you are looking to tell the instructor if they are good enough for you or not and you will waste your money even faster on the one on one.

 

Remember the best instructor for you is not always the highest rated instructor, but the one which best connects with you and how you learn.

 

Open you mind and stop being hardheaded as you are getting some very good advise on this thread.

post #63 of 95
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by markojp View Post

You realize that at some point we all have to slow down and deconstruct, don't you? Even the very best do, and more often than you'd think. There are no exceptions in any high skills based sport. Chances are huge that you haven't nailed the basics well enough to progress to the next level. If you aren't ready to be a student and dial it back if asked (there will be both reason and a logical progression and outcome for doing so) there isn't much point in taking lessons. Don't be a stubborn knucklehead. smile.gif

I said I wouldn't go back to square one. I'm not taking a group lesson to be taught wedge / pizza stops.
post #64 of 95

Your distaste with any of those skis comes down to lack of experience and improper technique. Sounds to me like you aren't going fast enough to exert enough force to bend the Rossi and Blizzard into your desired turn shape. If you were to get rid of any I would ditch the Rossi because it isn't as stiff as the Blizzard but is also not as soft as the Salomon. Best move to make for quiver building. Don't buy any new skis until you learn how to ski properly. Spend all the money that you would be using on skis on private lessons. Use the Salomons for bump and soft snow ski training and the Blizzards for firmer conditions.

post #65 of 95
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by east or bust View Post

Your distaste with any of those skis comes down to lack of experience and improper technique. Sounds to me like you aren't going fast enough to exert enough force to bend the Rossi and Blizzard into your desired turn shape. If you were to get rid of any I would ditch the Rossi because it isn't as stiff as the Blizzard but is also not as soft as the Salomon. Best move to make for quiver building. Don't buy any new skis until you learn how to ski properly. Spend all the money that you would be using on skis on private lessons. Use the Salomons for bump and soft snow ski training and the Blizzards for firmer conditions.

I have my issues and problems but not going fast enough is probably not one of them...in fact, I'm probably going too fast for someone that only has a marginal grasp of what he is doing!

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NrB1jI0nhwE&feature=relmfu

And before you tell me, I have been told I'm a "heel pusher" - I plan on remedying that with lessons this year!

Also, cut me a LITTLE slack, I am awkwardly holding a ski pole out in front of me - definitely not helping!
Edited by twochordcool - 8/13/13 at 10:26am
post #66 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by twochordcool View Post
I said I wouldn't go back to square one. I'm not taking a group lesson to be taught wedge / pizza stops.

I'll leave it to an instructor to comment on the video. Know those trails well; Bunny Buster is where the U8's-12's practice their gates.

 

"Square one" will differ for each person. Modern schools don't pay much attention to self-classification, since we're seldom accurate about our own skill sets. A good instructor will watch you make a few turns and know what issues you need to work on, whether you should be in one particular group or another. Often this is done before the groups are even formed; I know a guy who can watch people go 10 feet into the lift line and nail what level they're at.

 

If group lessons bother your ego, then take a private. But don't be surprised if it involves stuff other than scoring railroad tracks at speed. Wish I had pics of me doing little hops over and over. Small group, BTW. All I needed was a shiny nose and a set of bunny ears. But y'know what? Get to where you can do that anywhere in a turn, and begin to notice when your legs are extended and when they're compressed, and aha! You'll know something when you hit some bumps. As you will if you are forced to practice sideslipping, over and over, until you can drift backwards, forwards, or through a complete 360, without losing the slip. 

 

All of this stuff involves breaking down large suites of body movements into small chewable bites, and working on getting those right. 

And FWIW, Level One exams include wedges and pizzas, neither of which are particularly easy for an adult to do right. Said wedges use foundational movements that find their way into some kinds of racing turns. Just sayin....

post #67 of 95

Well there's your problem, you need to know how to carve to be able to bend the skis in the first place!

post #68 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by twochordcool View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by east or bust View Post

Your distaste with any of those skis comes down to lack of experience and improper technique. Sounds to me like you aren't going fast enough to exert enough force to bend the Rossi and Blizzard into your desired turn shape. If you were to get rid of any I would ditch the Rossi because it isn't as stiff as the Blizzard but is also not as soft as the Salomon. Best move to make for quiver building. Don't buy any new skis until you learn how to ski properly. Spend all the money that you would be using on skis on private lessons. Use the Salomons for bump and soft snow ski training and the Blizzards for firmer conditions.

I have my issues and problems but not going fast enough is probably not one of them...in fact, I'm probably going too fast for someone that only has a marginal grasp of what he is doing!

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NrB1jI0nhwE&feature=relmfu

And before you tell me, I have been told I'm a "heel pusher" - I plan on remedying that with lessons this year!

Also, cut me a LITTLE slack, I am awkwardly holding a ski pole out in front of me - definitely not helping!

You do realize you're about to get hit with an EpicSki movement analysis, right? And remarks about skiing out of control, skidding, yada yada? BRAVE MAN.

That video underlines what's been said about first learning to ski before buying new skis. The remarks about speed were talking about controlled movement, not bombing groomers. Any fool can bomb a groomer. Using your speed to make your skis arc in tough conditions is an entirely different matter.

But I'm not an instructor, so I'm just going to sit back and watch the carnage...
post #69 of 95
Twochord, I still think you should sell me the Blizzards.
post #70 of 95

TwoChord,

 

Clearly you love going FAST, and you want to keep doing that.  You also are proud of your ability to ski 35mph as a newish skier.  You consider yourself a natural.  You don't want to get into some lesson where you are made to endure slow skiing that doesn't recognize what you've been able to accomplish so quickly on your own.  You don't want to waste the precious hours you have for skiing on some lesson that does you no good, since you don't get on snow 50+ days but just a few days a season.  I think you believe a lesson will probably be a waste of time and that if you buy the right skis you will be able to figure out how to ski better by simply using them (it won't work, sorry). 

 

So if you actually were to take one or more lessons this upcoming season, and if that gave you want you want, what would it be?  What do you want to learn to do that you can't do now?  You seem to have the $$ to spend; private lessons with a seasoned coach will be the best bet for advancing fast.  I bet the community can give you some advice that will help you choose what to ask for when you book a private.  Several lessons with a good coach that you respect will do wonders for your skiing, and cost way less than a pair of new skis.  People here are willing to give you good advice; you have their attention;  this thread is already on the third page.  

 

Hint:  if you allow the conversation to focus on your video, there will be personal carnage.  Take control right now and make it about what to seek in lessons.  

post #71 of 95
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DesiredUsername View Post

Twochord, I still think you should sell me the Blizzards.

 

 

OK, I'll sell them to you. They are nearly brand new. Used 2 or 3 days TOPS. They are 172cm. There were brand new Marker Griffins put on them, set to boot size 27.5 / 318.

 

Make me an offer

post #72 of 95
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidFeet View Post

TwoChord,

 

Clearly you love going FAST, and you want to keep doing that.  You also are proud of your ability to ski 35mph as a newish skier.  You consider yourself a natural.  You don't want to get into some lesson where you are made to endure slow skiing that doesn't recognize what you've been able to accomplish so quickly on your own.  You don't want to waste the precious hours you have for skiing on some lesson that does you no good, since you don't get on snow 50+ days but just a few days a season.  I think you believe a lesson will probably be a waste of time and that if you buy the right skis you will be able to figure out how to ski better by simply using them (it won't work, sorry). 

 

So if you actually were to take one or more lessons this upcoming season, and if that gave you want you want, what would it be?  What do you want to learn to do that you can't do now?  You seem to have the $$ to spend; private lessons with a seasoned coach will be the best bet for advancing fast.  I bet the community can give you some advice that will help you choose what to ask for when you book a private.  Several lessons with a good coach that you respect will do wonders for your skiing, and cost way less than a pair of new skis.  People here are willing to give you good advice; you have their attention;  this thread is already on the third page.  

 

Hint:  if you allow the conversation to focus on your video, there will be personal carnage.  Take control right now and make it about what to seek in lessons.  

 

 

Obviously I'd like to improve as a skier!

 

I only consider myself an intermediate because I'm not clumsy like a totally clueless beginner.....otherwise I have some things in common with beginners!

post #73 of 95
Quote:

Hint:  if you allow the conversation to focus on your video, there will be personal carnage.  Take control right now and make it about what to seek in lessons.  

 

To be honest I was expecting worse... because of the way hardheaded knuckleheads tend to follow the Duning Kruger effect.

post #74 of 95
Thread Starter 

LiquidFeet, the only accurate part of your speculation is the fact that I don't get to ski as often as I'd like and I'm afraid ski lessons would not feel like skiing...more like cutting into skiing!

 

Maybe I'll devote a few December weekends to lessons - I have been starting in January after a good base is built up and more trails are opened.

 

By the way, anybody here know of a specific person for lessons in New Hampshire or Vermont? 

post #75 of 95
Um, you might have been addressing her in that very post.
post #76 of 95

Personal experience: 

I thought I was an advanced(isn) skier because I liked to go fast when I went to my first lesson. 

I had the good fortune of getting an amazing coach who was capable of taking my sad lack of skills and build me from the ground up. 

 

A good instructor can work with a skier who has intermediate skills and lightening fast speeds and rein in the bad while emphasizing the good.  

You will benefit from the direction you're heading if you go in with an open mind and embrace new things. 

 

 

I committed to 2 lessons a year from then til now and continue to do the same just to keep my learning curve fresh and ..........I'm continually amazed at how much I can improve each year.  

post #77 of 95

Twochord, you also need more days on snow every season.  You've obviously been bitten by the ski bug,

but you won't achieve your potential without more days per season on snow.

 

I don't know where you live, but if it's not close enough for day trips, consider joining a ski club where you

get a bunk while allows you to ski two days every weekend. You'll have people to ski with and you'll learn

a lot from them about NH skiing.  Look up this group of clubs in North Conway:

 

http://eicsl.org/

post #78 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by twochordcool View Post

 

 

Obviously I'd like to improve as a skier!

 

I only consider myself an intermediate because I'm not clumsy like a totally clueless beginner.....otherwise I have some things in common with beginners!

 

 

Time to be more specific.  You can't do it all in one lesson.  You can 

tell an instructor, watch me and tell me what I need.  Or you can focus on 

something in particular.  (Be aware that the instructor may respectfully disagree

and take you to the bunny slope to teach you some fundamentals where survival

is not an issue, before advancing to the trails you already ski.)

 

Do you want to make different size turns on steep trails stiffly plastered with our famous NE hardpack?

Learn to ski bumped up runs under the lift and get cheers from the chair?

Figure out how to get rid of quad burn after a bell to bell day?

Learn to get the deep angles you see WC racers making?

Learn to make those very short turns the experts make on very icy runs?

Learn to ski spring slop?

Learn to ski fresh heavy snow when it falls?

Learn to ski that formerly fresh snow 2 hours into the morning?

Learn to race and earn a nice Nastar handicap?

Learn to ski in the woods between the trees on the hard bumps? 

post #79 of 95
Thread Starter 

Thanks everyone.

 

LiquidFeet, last year I skied somewhere around 18 days.

 

I live in Westchester, NY and don't like to go to sucky local ski places - I prefer going no less south than Stratton.

 

But that was a lot of hours on the road...a lot alone.

 

I'm like 4 / 4 and a half to Killington.

 

Last year I went every weekend once I started, plus a week vacation. It's hard to do much more unless I start in December when it's not so great and go into March, when sometimes it's not so great.

 

Last year I got to Stratton, Okemo, Killington, Sunday River, Wildcat, Waterville Valley, Sugarloaf, Smugglers Notch, Gunstock and Whiteface.

 

I want to go as much as I can, but I'll probably average around 15 to 20 days a year, living so far from where good skiing is.

post #80 of 95
Thread Starter 

I'm not crazy about bumps and I don't know that I will be, even if and when I get good enough.

 

I would like to learn proper technique...turn properly...on the groomers and in fresh snow.

 

It would be cool to learn how to ski those crazy angles...

 

Eventually I'd like to go out west and ski huge, beautiful spread out trees in a divine winter / forest paradise!

post #81 of 95

Do you have local hills near you?  Take lessons there!!!!!  Do it week nights at some sucky

mountain nearby that has night skiing.  Do it often.  

 

You don't need long "interesting" runs to learn; most instructors won't take you there anyway.  

You need to learn on easy terrain, then take your new-born skills to terrain that's just a little

more challenging, then when it gets boring, go steeper.  You can learn all the fundamentals

on your local "pimple" of a hill.  All you need is the right instructor, a hill open at night, and

the hours after work. 

 

Oh, and you need to do your "homework" (i.e., drills) on the weekends when you're on the

longer slopes up north.

post #82 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by twochordcool View Post


I said I wouldn't go back to square one. I'm not taking a group lesson to be taught wedge / pizza stops.

 

I don't think anyone said anything about starting right at the beginning (but its not a bad idea if your ego can handle it, it is amazing how much you learn when you try it).

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by twochordcool View Post


I have my issues and problems but not going fast enough is probably not one of them...in fact, I'm probably going too fast for someone that only has a marginal grasp of what he is doing!

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NrB1jI0nhwE&feature=relmfu

And before you tell me, I have been told I'm a "heel pusher" - I plan on remedying that with lessons this year!

Also, cut me a LITTLE slack, I am awkwardly holding a ski pole out in front of me - definitely not helping!

 

Looking at your video, you are naturally athletic, strong with good reflexes.  This is what is making your skiing life difficult.  Your ability to pivot and skid the turns at higher speeds with some control makes you appear and feel to be a lot better than you are.  (I also looked at some of your other videos)

 

Get in a group which is beyond the pizza (most definitely) and try to understand what the instructor is teaching the other students to correct their issues (as to teaching you, well.....your title says it all) .  Now you can apply what is being taught to the other students to yourself (its hard to disagree with yourself).

 

Now as to a correction, lose the camera, it is messing you up, focus on skiing and applying the skills you have learned so far.  Its not your skis, its you, get out and correct it.

 

BTW you will still have to learn pizza and wedge stops before you are considered anywhere near advanced.  This is a bone of contention with me as the shaped skis encourage skipping certain skill sets at the beginning (which allow skiers to turn easily and have more fun on the mountain at the beginning, good for the industry) which must be learned later to be an advanced skier  (I started on straight skis and skied them for over 45 years before switching and still enjoy skiing them when I'm not on my current GS or SL race skis, which is why I understand the difference). 

 

Like it or not, all skills must be learned sooner or later to ski near the top of the pack, there is no short cut.  I am no where near learning everything that I still want to know and experience (Deep powder with rockered planks wink.gif)

post #83 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by twochordcool View Post

I'm not crazy about bumps and I don't know that I will be, even if and when I get good enough.

Those bump thingies? They're just there to let you (third person) know you're not nearly as good as you think. smile.gif
post #84 of 95

Agreed.  

Bumps are just there to let initiates know they're not nearly as good as they think.

Later, bumps are there for when regulars get bored with groomers.

Tele is for when experts get bored with everything.

post #85 of 95
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by markojp View Post


Those bump thingies? They're just there to let you (third person) know you're not nearly as good as you think. smile.gif

 

 

I know bumps require skill and you're not a great skier if you can't ski them, hence I said:

 

I'm not crazy about bumps and I don't know that I will be, even if and when I get good enough.

 

I'm saying I probably won't be interested in them even after I'm capable of skiing them.

 

I get it. I suck. And I like gear. And I have fun.

post #86 of 95
I think what Markojp and LiquidFeet are saying is that as you become a better skier you will be able to handle bumps and maybe even enjoy them and seek them out. Bumps are fun.
post #87 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by twochordcool View Post


I know bumps require skill and you're not a great skier if you can't ski them, hence I said:

I'm not crazy about bumps and I don't know that I will be, even if and when I get good enough.


I'm saying I probably won't be interested in them even after I'm capable of skiing them.


I get it. I suck. And I like gear. And I have fun.

I add a smiley emoticon when things are meant to be read with a sense of humor. The comment was 'you'... Third person, so not really just you. Kind of all of us.
post #88 of 95

Twochordcool, you don't suck compared to at least half the skiers in the U.S., you deserve a Purple Heart for posting this thread and sticking with it, and who knows what you'll like as you improve. Not everyone wants to be, or needs to be, a Great Skier; it always should be about fun. Bumps, believe it or not, can not only be fun, but can save your bacon on a slick steep black. And eastern trees, which are very cool, are full of 'em. 

 

OTOH, attitude counts here, and it's prolly the wrong web site to come to if you want to argue about lessons. Or get too wounded after sticking it all out there for inspection. Too many instructors or coaches or decent skiers who believe in lessons. Try TGR, where they luxuriate in being non-technical big mountain rock stars on fat skis, and prefer big speed to big railroad tracks, air to angulation. Only lose the video clips or you'll get flamed into a cinder. 

 

Or stick with Epic, take a deep breath, and post another video in 6 months after you've had a lesson each time you come up to Vermont. wink.gif

post #89 of 95

Twocordcool, you're on the right track.  I can hardly wait to see where you're going to go in this sport.  Would be a pleasure to meet up with you some ay. 

post #90 of 95

Of those 18 days, how many were powder days?

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Ski Gear Discussion
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Ski Gear Discussion › alright alright I was a hardheaded knucklehead last year (as far as taking advice goes) BUT!