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Injected liners - who's got em?

post #1 of 16
Thread Starter 

Who's using them?  What made you choose this type of liner?  ...its benefits?  ...its problems?

Is it comfortable, or do you simply endure it because it does good things for your skiing?


Who would you expect would benefit from an injected liner?  Who wouldn't need this?

post #2 of 16
I have Surefoot's proprietary liner in some Langes. My first experience with Surefoot was when they used Conformable liners. Their newer versions have increased foam ports and can be filled for softer or harder finishes. I had these done as hard as they could make 'em. My feet got pretty bruised up and hurt for several days after, but they've performed well. They've also held up better than the Conformables.

I have an issue with the bottom of one tibia being offset so that there's a huge ankle bone projection and that foot also is a half size larger than the other, so it takes a lot of customization to give me both a good fit on each foot and relative comfort. The foaming done properly takes care of a lot of the adjustments that have to be made for my situation.

I'd advise anyone with significant foot/ankle abnormalities to investigate foamed liners.
post #3 of 16


VIP foam liners, triple stacked with

SuperFeet Kork insoles (sorry no pics)

inside these




Best performing boots ever!  Because I say sobiggrin.gif



I have very narrow heel ankle achilles, and very wide ball, plus a couple of breaks thrown in for good measure.


Fit is snug, like a cast. You can see how they fit the rivet in the shell; they fit all the nooks, crannies and protuberances in my feet just as well.  Response is very precise with no noticeable lag.


Comfort is a work in progress; my boot-fitter never got to finish his work. I'll be removing the bottom of the liner before the snow flies.  It would be done now but summer is conducive to drinking beer, and beer makes me lazy.  Now that I think about it, I recall just using the Kork for the bottom actually was the original plan.  A replacement boot fitter punching out the boot shell without adjusting the liner was a bit of a disaster, causing boots to be stored for a time.  I took an interest in reviving them, out of frustration with performance available from my Salomons Crossmax 10s (Which I was told by the salesman was the highest performing boot that I could wear in comfort all day - a bold faced lie, but I didn't know it at the time).  Cutting the liner on my little toe side made the boots wearable, but I think induced a bit of lop-sidedness causing some pressure on the side of my foot.  Ignoring the discomfort for a full day of full-blast skiing/riding the T-bar with a few jumps on hard snow turned out not to be such a good idea.


Liners are three sizes too small according to my boot size (8 versus 11). Obviously,the original boot fitter had planned lots of work on these liners.


P.S.  Oh yeah, all the bells and whistle adjustments were set before casting the liner, which now renders them immobile.

post #4 of 16

Originally Posted by Ghost View Post


inside these




Best performing boots ever!  Because I say sobiggrin.gif

    Out of curiosity, what year were those Koflachs produced Ghost? 


   P.s. LF, sorry for the small sidetrack question. I use my stock Salomon liners in my plugs--the fit is quite good, but I AM considering the intuition race model...



Edited by zentune - 7/27/13 at 10:04am
post #5 of 16
Originally Posted by zentune View Post
   Out of curiosity, what year were those Koflachs produced Ghost? 



Sometime in the early 1980's, I think; my memory isn't as good as I remember it was.

post #6 of 16

^^^^^ Impressive the plastic has held out!



post #7 of 16

I have a pair in my closet only worn once. It's hard to ski when your feet are completely asleep. At the top of the lift, I felt my knees come toward my chest as my feet touched, but that's it.

post #8 of 16
I use Sidas (Comformable) as part of their full 'Black Project' system. There are two liners, one has an injectable tongue and the other doesn't, although you could swap in a new tongue if desired. Mine are the base version, which also uses the softer foam. I also have Sidas custom orthotics (and Sidas boot warmers).

Pros - fully shaped to your foot/ankle, even compression, no buckle cranking, heel hold, great tongue ( wink.gif ), all day/all season comfort with no break-in period (at least IME), performance lifespan.

Cons - cost (better if purchased as part of the Sidas system, but limited shell choices), extra weight, no warmth increase, one shot injection - no remolding so you need to do your footbeds first.

Skiers who could benefit - no regular access to boot fitting (one-and-done potential), circulation highly sensitive to compression, foot mechanics issues, low volume or odd shaped feet where thermomolding may leave problem area gaps, athletic advancing skiers who lack a history of boot work (personal fitting knowledge) and want an off the shelf solution, anybody who doesn't want to sacrifice performance for comfort or vice versa and has reasonable expectations about the compromises.

Some less than stellar pics:

The ankle pockets and volume addition can be seen here. I have skinny and boney ankles with a lot of volume around the Achilles.

The shell.

post #9 of 16

I've been using aftermarket foam liners for 20 + years due to fit issues (if any boot maker lasted a boot for my foot the would probably sell one pair of boots all year). I've had Nordica liners, Sidas/Comforable and most recently the Surefoots. Somewhat contrary to Naybreak's comments I've always needed follow up sessions after the foaming but they were fairly minor. The Surefoots are about $150 less than the $550 Sidas and work very well for me. On my first pair I noticed they had a bit more give than the Sidas but I was told that was actually part of the liner material being softer than the Sidas rather than the foam itself. You can tell the Surefoot tech you want it firm and he can make the Surefoot like the Sidas, which used to make their liners for them. One thing about the Surefoot liner to be aware of is that is has a much thicker sole than the Sidas and I guess most stock liners so if you have a high arch/instep and related fit issues there be sure the tech can create some headroom with the boot board or the foot bed if you go the Surefoot route. Assuming you have a custom foot bed (go there first if you don't have one), have had competent boot fitting and stance alignment, and are still not comfortable/skiing well in your stock liner setup then I highly recommend a Surefoot (or other aftermarket liner). Most of my friends (and my wife) go the Zipfit route which are not foamed but have a viscous oil/cork material injected that you can add to or subtract from your liner any time. This is a huge advantage over foam as you can dial them back in after a few seasons and also transfer Zips from shell to shell. They have more inherent shape to them than a foam "sock" so they did not work for me but if they did they would be my first choice. They are about $350.  They do have one other disadvantage (at least to me) in that most skiers have to put them on without the shell and then slide your foot and liner into the shell so boot heater cables can take a beating if you go that route.  

post #10 of 16
Thread Starter 

If I have read correctly, most people posting in this thread who have used injected liners chose them more for fit issues than for purely performance reasons.  

Anybody else out there who has owned injecteds?

Comments on the cost, or on finding someone who will fit the correctly?

post #11 of 16

Injected foam liners take your skiing performance to another level .. or at least they did.  Recently -- due to European Union environmental rules -- the liner companies have switched to foam chemicals that give less performance because they produce softer, spongier, crumblier foam. 

post #12 of 16

I bought some Intuitions because I had seen so many places that they were warmer and because I wanted to extend the life of my shells, which I didn't wanna get rid of.

I hated them.  First, I found the surface so hard, it was like having the plastic inside my boot.  Also, they made my feet colder than even my lightly packed-out stock liners.


I went to an awesome boot guy that works on referral from local shops and works out of his garage.  He fixed up my 4-year old boots like new by tinkering with the shell, removing some material in the toe, and putting in custom foot beds that added some volume to the boot and made them fit like a glove once again.


The Intuitions are sitting in my closet gathering dust after being baked and worn one time.  If someone wants them (size 27), PM me an offer.

post #13 of 16

I can see how it could be nice to have a bit more grip from the liners above the ankles, but for me the volume was too much. I also think the ankles need to have some mobility, so not sure that having them totally locked in by foam is a good thing either. If they were free, I'd try another foaming with the toe vent wide open, or maybe smaller bottles of foaming agent or something, but not paying for something that might work. Dobie race liners are good enough for me.

post #14 of 16
Thread Starter 

Do injected liners prevent the boots from ever flexing forward?

post #15 of 16
Originally Posted by LiquidFeet View Post

Do injected liners prevent the boots from ever flexing forward?


No. They do stiffen them (or at least can stiffen them). What I mean by mobility is everting and inverting the foot.

post #16 of 16
To answer a couple of posts above...

Yes, I wanted performance as well as fit. I think the liners are adding some stiffness to the boot flex, but I certainly didn't lose any ankle flex mobility. I was a different skier from the first day, but that isn't a comparison to another boot that was professionally fitted for performance.

My wife got the woman's version of the Solomon X3 shell at the same time with its thermomoldable liner. Her ankles are similar to mine and she has not been happy with the heel lift and spent this season really cranking the buckles. I think she really just should go for the injectable for her skiing style, but cost is a real issue for the liner only. Still, the comfort is just ridiculous for the performance and repeated trips to the fitter are not free...

My full review/story here:

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