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Skill development and memory cues - Page 2

post #31 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoebag View Post

 

"I think this is extremely pertinent in many sports. Inner doubt tends to express itself as muscular tension,  which is results in breath holding. You are correct that you can't just tell some one to relax, but the verbal cue (bumper sticker) to "breathe" can bring instant and dramatic results. It's one of those detrimental things that you don't know that you are doing until some one reminds you. Free flowing movement comes from free flowing breathing."

 

^^^^^^The above can DEFINITELY be true for those that are less experienced at running gates. The tendency is to hold your breath--which is why in training it is something we mention to people. Perhaps just one word would suffice once an initial message or two was driven home.

 

    zenny

post #32 of 45

There are quite a few tips and tricks about breathing in tennis ... I don't know about skiing, it's kind of different, but exhaling to release tension. It's one reason so many players are grunting now, sorta took it too far. Blowing on your fingers before the serve is one way. I end up blowing while I ski, a lot. (Yes, I blow at skiing...)  Is that something you guys teach to skiers?

post #33 of 45
Quote:

Originally Posted by segbrown View Post

 

There are quite a few tips and tricks about breathing in tennis ... I don't know about skiing, it's kind of different, but exhaling to release tension. It's one reason so many players are grunting now, sorta took it too far. Blowing on your fingers before the serve is one way. I end up blowing while I ski, a lot. (Yes, I blow at skiing...)  Is that something you guys teach to skiers?

   We usually say, "Don't forget to breathe!!" at the top of the course, but perhaps something simple like "Relax" or "Breathe"  yelled at the skier on course at the midway point would be better. 

 

  Come to think of it, it's probably something that SHOULD be discussed/mentioned during regular lessons as well...makes perfect sense to me. Holding one's breath DOES create tension (and wears one out quicker!).

 

   zenny

post #34 of 45

it is one of the cardinal ways to cue people into a self assessment of their nervous system. I always give people the contrast, perform a trunk movement holding breath vs using attention to find the movement that allow them to remain breathing without effort.  With the dynamics of rib mobility and spinal mobility needed for skiing it would be curious to see how it presented in different skill levels.  You can go beyond just breath as a cue though, there are dynamics of the ribs, sternum, clavicles, etc that are present in efficient breathing. Movements like paradoxical breathing (breathing with belly out/diaphragm down vs chest breathing/diaphragm up, belly in). 

 

The tonic restrictions that come with the lower reflexive patterns put a clamp on the trunk/torso dynamics, once these are in effect the ability to move the extremities dynamically is going to require a great deal more strain.

 

You can usually see other areas that become unnecessarily contracted/restricted in association with movement learning/movement anxiety, jaws, facial efforts, grip, head rotation freedom, spinal freedom (meaning they move easier in one direction, turn left vs right, etc), the cues to use interoception to adjust these and even recognize them are windows into our reflexive system and preferences

post #35 of 45

thought of this topic when reading yesterday.  the article was concerned with the differences in body incorporation vs body extension(Helena De Preester).  the two vary in subtle but dramatic neurological ways they are finding.  When we use tools(skis) they become extensions of our body image but they are not necessarily changing the online body scheme that we develop through our life. what was kind of cool though and I think lends a hand to this conversation is the realization that with the use of tools, even though they are not incoprorated to the internal body scheme, they have shown how the neural structures adapt to include the use of the tools. The example was with monkeys using rakes, they could show neural development in the visual cortex, motor mapping dynamics, and sensory areas of the brain that supported the idea that the tools extend our body into the environment and the brain adjusts accordingly.

 

using terminology that may enhance those body recognitions with the use of the tools(skis) would seemingly speed up the neural development, it would seem we still have to focus on internal body cues to adjust the body scheme, but attention to the tools and the effects on the body itself can expidite the neural growth.

 

geek factor 10, but pretty amazing piece of equipment lodged between our ears

post #36 of 45

Think of mirrors as a tool.  Say rear-view and side-view mirrors on a vehicle.  The vehicle is a tool as well, an extension of the self in all directions.  The mirrors count as extensions of our vision, even though there's not touch involved.

 

How many people do you know who have never really figured out how to back up their vehicle with precision, using all the mirrors and their ability to twist around and actually look?  What's up with that?

 

Maybe being able to back the car into a parallel parking spot is similar to being able to figure out how to glide down a hill at speed on those toe and heel extensions that we so love.  I'm imagining adding rear view mirrors to my helmets - not!

post #37 of 45

Practice and repetition of skill, sets muscle memory (and brain memory), failure to continue slowly diminishes ability as memory fades long term (same reason after years off, we know what to do, but the body just doesn't cooperate).

 

Not all people remember in the same fashion, but getting reactions and responses to be instinctual is the key.

 

The best advice is practice a skill set when you are tired at the end of a session, Perfect with no mistakes (not talking of killing it with speed and power, just smooth, easy and perfect as you can make it) and finish the day.  You just taught your memory to focus in most difficult condition and that is the fall back it will go to in those what do I do next moments.

 

Any coach/instructor that lets a student finish with poor skills at the end of a set (within the limits of the student of course) has just hindered the learning exercise by enforcing the wrong skill.  BTW this not meant to be hardcore, but easy warm down and fun.

 

I would love to say that this my wisdom, but I have some (and witnessed some) amazing coaching/instruction and this is combined view of the best.

post #38 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by zentune View Post

   We usually say, "Don't forget to breathe!!" at the top of the course, but perhaps something simple like "Relax" or "Breathe"  yelled at the skier on course at the midway point would be better. 

 

  Come to think of it, it's probably something that SHOULD be discussed/mentioned during regular lessons as well...makes perfect sense to me. Holding one's breath DOES create tension (and wears one out quicker!).

 

   zenny

zenny,

 

Now you are getting into wording that boarders on hypnosis.   Using a negative like "don't" is extremely powerful, since the listener must think about what you are saying they shouldn't do.  If I say, "Don't think of blue..." five years from now you will recall my example of asking you not to think of blue.  If you say, "Don't think about how easy this run will be after we learn some new tricks..." students will think about how easy skiing the run will eventually be. " Don't think of this as being steep" will have students shaking with fear.

 

When I gave speeches I always laced the presentations with metaphors, anecdotes (to attach to the belief systems of the audience) and non-sequitur double blinds.  Non-sequitur double blinds are the best for f&^%ing with an audience, because nobody knows it is happening to them.    For example, if an instructor says,  "You can have the best skiing day of your life right now, or when you decide to improve by learning new things..." it is the same as saying, "You are going to have the best day of your skiing life right now."   It is like me wanting my hot and sweaty kids that just walked inside the house to sit in the kitchen and not the living room.  My wife normally yells, "Don't go in the living room," so they naturally sit on the good living room furniture to piss her off (she mistakenly used the negative "don't").  I calmly state, "You can sit in the kitchen when you are hot and sweaty, or when you want a drink or water."  The non-sequitur double bind works every time because no one knows you are doing it to them.  You are giving them a perceived choice, but the choices always have the exact same outcome you want.  This linguistic stuff also works in bars, but those days are long over now that I am married living in a community property state.

post #39 of 45

OK, just spent some time reading about non sequitur double binds, and other types of double bind, and Eriksonian hypnotism.  Were you a hypnotist in your past, Canoe?

post #40 of 45
Very interesting, quant! smile.gif


zenny
post #41 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by quant2325 View Post

zenny,

 

Now you are getting into wording that boarders on hypnosis.   Using a negative like "don't" is extremely powerful, since the listener must think about what you are saying they shouldn't do.  If I say, "Don't think of blue..." five years from now you will recall my example of asking you not to think of blue.  If you say, "Don't think about how easy this run will be after we learn some new tricks..." students will think about how easy skiing the run will eventually be. " Don't think of this as being steep" will have students shaking with fear.

 

When I gave speeches I always laced the presentations with metaphors, anecdotes (to attach to the belief systems of the audience) and non-sequitur double blinds.  Non-sequitur double blinds are the best for f&^%ing with an audience, because nobody knows it is happening to them.    For example, if an instructor says,  "You can have the best skiing day of your life right now, or when you decide to improve by learning new things..." it is the same as saying, "You are going to have the best day of your skiing life right now."   It is like me wanting my hot and sweaty kids that just walked inside the house to sit in the kitchen and not the living room.  My wife normally yells, "Don't go in the living room," so they naturally sit on the good living room furniture to piss her off (she mistakenly used the negative "don't").  I calmly state, "You can sit in the kitchen when you are hot and sweaty, or when you want a drink or water."  The non-sequitur double bind works every time because no one knows you are doing it to them.  You are giving them a perceived choice, but the choices always have the exact same outcome you want.  This linguistic stuff also works in bars, but those days are long over now that I am married living in a community property state.

 

Every time? Because I know exactly how I would react to that ... "Wait, that doesn't make any sense. I'm going to the living room."

post #42 of 45

On a similar note;

 

It is very confusing to give positive instructions with negative language. When the wife says to the husband "don't forget to get milk on the way home", all he really hears is "forget the milk", and he obliges. It is much more successful to say "remember to get the milk on the way home", then he remembers.

 

So telling a skier "don't forget to breath" will probably not help, but an instruction like, "remember to breath out as you release" will be much more likely to succeed.

post #43 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidFeet View Post

OK, just spent some time reading about non sequitur double binds, and other types of double bind, and Eriksonian hypnotism.  Were you a hypnotist in your past, Canoe?

now why did I think QCanoe posted that about double binds.  Sorry Quant.  Have YOU a background in hypnotism?

post #44 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidFeet View Post

now why did I think QCanoe posted that about double binds.  Sorry Quant.  Have YOU a background in hypnotism?

 

A long time ago I took a course in Ericksonian Hypnosis at a spiritual retreat near Boston, near where I was living at the time.  The participants included a number of therapists, a doctor interested in pain control without drugs, and a salesman (me).   After the course I stopped talking so much and started asking lots of questions to everyone with whom I interacted.  My ability to sell and (more importantly) help my clients increased greatly.  I also became known within the firms where I worked as a podium caliber speaker, who could quickly put together an hour long presentation that would blow away an audience of professionals.  Due to family medical issues I retired at 50 and haven’t worked for eight years.  I will soon return to work doing something since I need/want the money. 

 

My advice to instructors--and I am certainly no instructor-- is this:

  1. Become expert at asking the right questions.  “Tell me about the best teacher/instructor you ever had?” while going up the chairlift will tell you how the student thinks and what method of delivering information is best.  Questions like, “What did you like most about your last lesson?” and,  ”What do you think the last instructor could improve?” will give you a ton of information.  These questions may be good or they may suck...I am not in your profession.  Develop your own questions.   I’ll bet the best earning instructors, the ones who get huge tips and repeat private lessons, are great at asking questions and are even better listeners.
  2. Liberally lace all your ideas with metaphors and anecdotes to attach your thoughts to the student’s belief system.   If the student plays golf, you could remind them (with an anecdote) that they needed to adjust their body position to up and downhill lies even though at first it was not natural, and that you want them to do the same as the hill becomes steeper.   An engineer will want details, and a military general just wants to know what to do with as few words as possible.  All that NLP stuff probably works OK, too.  So give them what they want in the optimal way they will understand your advice.
  3.  Don’t be afraid to play a few games with a student’s mind if your goal is to make him/her better, since the student is expecting and even hoping that you will do so.  Stating, “I wouldn’t want you to become too comfortable too soon, so I’d thought we first go over what we hope to accomplish...” to a class of nervous first timers does not cross the line into unethical behavior (at least in my opinion).  You are just making them really comfortable really soon, and that helps their learning experience and possibly prevents injury.  Now if you are trying to get some guy to tips his skis more optimally, and put into his mind using linguistics that “tipping” is the most important thing he can do... you will likely get more tips at the end of the day.  But this may not be ethical.

 

It isn’t a requirement in any profession to eat, drink and breathe metaphors or even to have clients feel good about their experience and enjoy themselves.  Regardless, great speakers keep us at the edge of our seats by forking over non-stop metaphors and anecdotes inside each presentation.  Some of the best trial lawyers, like Gerry Spence, seemingly win their cases with their opening statements by tailoring a highly influential metaphor to the belief system of the jury.  So you can use this stuff right now, or whenever you want happier clients who learn faster and tip better.  The choice is yours.

 
post #45 of 45

I never knew they made a documentary about this man, he and his story is in a number of readings. This was impressive.  The proprio and interoception we have come to depend on without consciousness or appreciation.  A verification to bombard and challenge people and ourselves to make the connections of our movement through as many sensory channels as possible, the brain craves it.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7hRo32zSAI

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