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Boots stiffness selection - Page 2

post #31 of 52

The flex of the boot has a lot to do with your physiology, as much as it has to do with the type of skiing you do, and your ability. 

Unless a bootfitter takes the time to ask you a wealth of questions and check your ankle ROM, he really has no idea what flex to recommend. 

That doesn't even take into consideration that boot manufacturers don't have a standard flex rating, so a 100 flex isn't necessarily a 100 flex between two different brands.

post #32 of 52
Th
Quote:
Originally Posted by jzmtl View Post

Actually that's just from chatting with the guy, I didn't start the fitting process. I told him I want advanced/expert level boots and he pointed at a few 100/110 ones, when I mentioned 130 that's what he said.[
post #33 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trekchick View Post

The flex of the boot has a lot to do with your physiology, as much as it has to do with the type of skiing you do, and your ability. 

Unless a bootfitter takes the time to ask you a wealth of questions and check your ankle ROM, he really has no idea what flex to recommend. 

That doesn't even take into consideration that boot manufacturers don't have a standard flex rating, so a 100 flex isn't necessarily a 100 flex between two different brands.

Listen to her. icon14.gif

post #34 of 52

It's funny when the concept of ego enters the equation.  I was skiing in 100 flex Nordica boots (that were too big for me) and when a certain someone on this forum sized me up, quickly put me in a 130 flex boot.  I'm about average size I guess (5' 11" / 170) and didn't have the slightest bit of ego in regard to flex or my ability (I just wanted boots that would make me better), and if anything was concerned when I saw the 130 flex that it would be too much for me.  First day on the mountain in them and it was like a revelation - holy shit, my skis actually turn exactly when I want them to.

 

My point is, 130 on a lot of boots (in my case Lange and Tecnica) really isn't *that* stiff.

post #35 of 52
I'm over 200# & have a EEE Left foot with a EE wide Right foot. I wear Nordica Hot Rod 95 flex boots and find the wider width of the HR 95s a good fit for me!

I like to ski FAST (60+mph) early in the am on hard packed piste and chill in the afternoon when crud dominates the Midwest hills (34 degree pitch) I'm skiing.

Center of gravity & properly applied pressure keeps me carving trenches at high speeds & the width / flex keeps me comfortable all day long!

DEMO / DEMO / DEMO to determine YOUR preferred boot.

CHEERS!!
post #36 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spengail View Post

I'm over 200# & have a EEE Left foot with a EE wide Right foot. I wear Nordica Hot Rod 95 flex boots and find the wider width of the HR 95s a good fit for me!

I like to ski FAST (60+mph) early in the am on hard packed piste and chill in the afternoon when crud dominates the Midwest hills (34 degree pitch) I'm skiing.

Center of gravity & properly applied pressure keeps me carving trenches at high speeds & the width / flex keeps me comfortable all day long!

DEMO / DEMO / DEMO to determine YOUR preferred boot.

CHEERS!!

Nothing personal, but just where are you hitting 60+ in the Midwest? I grew up there, skied pretty much at most of the larger hills there, and hitting 60+ happened only when tucking down pretty steep stuff on hard pack days... Think Awful Awful or Manitou at Sugarloaf on DH skis.. That was about as fast as you could go pretty much anywhere...
post #37 of 52
It became concerning a few seasons ago when I realized I was terrified of ripping my Achilles' tendon in half and possibly breaking the top of my foot on eastern boilerplate when hitting a pothole at speed on race stock in negative temps. I was in a soft 130 Nordica SC Blower, basically freeride ingredients from a race mold, and switched to a Doby Aggressor 150 to better match my skis and preferred style. As the quiver grew, so did the need for multiple boots. Cant use a doby on Keepers and cant use blowers on GSR's. Fwiw, my foot is 105mm+ at its widest with a very short, very high-volume calf and Billy Haight from GMOL in Stratton Village has us all comfortably stuffed in a 95mm unforgiving race boot for 8.5 hours a day without any pain, But then again...the Man's a Wizard.....and also a great, great guy.
post #38 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trekchick View Post

The flex of the boot has a lot to do with your physiology, as much as it has to do with the type of skiing you do, and your ability. 

Unless a bootfitter takes the time to ask you a wealth of questions and check your ankle ROM, he really has no idea what flex to recommend. 

That doesn't even take into consideration that boot manufacturers don't have a standard flex rating, so a 100 flex isn't necessarily a 100 flex between two different brands.

Exactly!  What she said!  I am 53 yrs old, 5'2", female, 140 lbs , advanced (not expert) skier, in a Dalbello Kryzma which is rated at a 110 flex.  I have no problem flexing it ... in fact, I notice no difference between these and my previous tecnicas rated at a 100 flex. I am not exactly "iron woman."   The flex number is pretty random.  Your bootfitter checks your FLEXIBILITY, foot shape, stance, etc (more than I understand) and then tells you what will work best.  The numbers are irrelevant.  Only the performance, fit, and comfort matters.

post #39 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by markojp View Post

Nothing personal, but just where are you hitting 60+ in the Midwest? I grew up there, skied pretty much at most of the larger hills there, and hitting 60+ happened only when tucking down pretty steep stuff on hard pack days... Think Awful Awful or Manitou at Sugarloaf on DH skis.. That was about as fast as you could go pretty much anywhere...

Granite Peak (old Rib Mountain- 34 degree pitch & 700 feet of vert) is where I was able to PR at 62.3mph this year. I use GS technique weighting uphill ski 80-85% cutting through hard packed almost ice groomed piste.

This said, I ROUTINELY exceed 50mph in similar conditions with varying technique on most hills throughout the Midwest.

Thoroughly enjoyed my days at Heavenly, Squaw Valley & AZ Snowbowl this season! Got in over 40 days skiing this season (mid NOV -mid APR in WI) & CAN'T WAIT for November to arrive!

CHEERS!
post #40 of 52


I stand corrected on the pitch, 27 not 34 for this days outting...
post #41 of 52

LOL now the debate on GPS accuracy shall begin...
popcorn.gif

post #42 of 52
Indeed, another thread. Glad you got out to Squaw though... I need to head down one of these days myself. It's been much too long. smile.gif
post #43 of 52
Note, his average is 13. For ten feet, while the satellite had a cloud in front of it, it lost him, then found him in a different spot than expected and decided for that ten feet, he must have been going 60 mph.
post #44 of 52

Question: the common wisdom here says you can't stiffen a boot, but can't you add a stiff Intuition liner to stiffen it up a bit?

 

 

https://intuitionliners.com/choosing-the-right-liner/

 

I ask because I just bought a pair of barely used Tecnica Diablo Race 110 and figured I'd stiffen them if necessary with an Intuition liner.   These are on top of my other recent purchase of used Tecnica Icon Alu Comps to replace my beat Icon Alu (non-comp).   It will be interesting to put this stiffness question to the test as I compare those three boots.  I've been in my old boots so long I really have no idea what my preference will be.

 

Any guesses at to the stiffness of the Icon Alu and Icon Alu Comps for comparison purposes?   That was back before they put stiffness numbers on the boots.

post #45 of 52

Trekchick, and JayT are the only ones who have said anything REALLY true, and relevant in this thread. Boots stiffness in this day and age with different skiing styles, ski designs, and body types is purely a personal thing. Like many things. When going boot shopping you should leave your ego at the door. And not look at the numbers.
 

post #46 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky View Post

Note, his average is 13. For ten feet, while the satellite had a cloud in front of it, it lost him, then found him in a different spot than expected and decided for that ten feet, he must have been going 60 mph.

Nice to be referred to so dismissively in the third person!

Averages include the entire time the tracker was running. (This includes time in queue, putting skis on, après topside, helping others on the hill, etc...)

I've been either skiing or snowboarding since the early 80's. I had a Burton Woody 145 before boards were allowed on a vast majority of hills / mountains ANYWHERE. I ski Norton Fire Arrow 80ti's now because they are a GREAT front side carving machine. Especially so given the Midwest groomed ice we have to deal with locally.

Am I as knowledgable as many here, HECK NO! I do however bring vast knowledge to this lifestyle and this board and would appreciate a modicum of respect much less a "Welcome" to this newbie.

Nice job on representing yourself. I hope it's not reflective of the majority here...
post #47 of 52

The trouble is, there are not just some knowledgable people here, but folks who make a living at this ski thing who are known nationally, others have competed at high levels in the various disciplines, have done pretty amazing touring, etc..  Many here have midwestern roots and are thankful for for having had access to the sport and learned to ski there, but over the years, skiing is something that eventually requires a good deal of humility. Whenever I allow myself to think I've been there and done that, there are reminders that several here who've done it more and done it better. I have to chuckle... For and example, there was a thread awhile back about 'what was steep?'. A week later someone posts a video and picture TR of skiing the north face of the Aiguille du Midi... kind of made the 'steep' thread's 'gnarl and schralp'  look like amateur hour.  Being new to any forum is a little like getting on a chair with a stranger. We wouldn't mind a friendly exchange about the day, weather, what's skiing well, etc... but most will shut down when an unknown party broadcasts their great skill and experience. The best don't.  Hang out, share, listen, learn, avoid the temptation to boast, etc... and laugh.  Oh, and welcome! smile.gif

 

Now back to your regularly scheduled boot stiffness selection discussion. 

post #48 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spengail View Post


Granite Peak (old Rib Mountain- 34 degree pitch & 700 feet of vert) is where I was able to PR at 62.3mph this year. I use GS technique weighting uphill ski 80-85% cutting through hard packed almost ice groomed piste.

This said, I ROUTINELY exceed 50mph in similar conditions with varying technique on most hills throughout the Midwest.

Thoroughly enjoyed my days at Heavenly, Squaw Valley & AZ Snowbowl this season! Got in over 40 days skiing this season (mid NOV -mid APR in WI) & CAN'T WAIT for November to arrive!

CHEERS!

I was able to PR at Pamela Anderson on her boat a few years ago and I ROUTINELY date SUPERMODELS. Saying it makes it true right?


Edited by Speeder - 7/23/13 at 12:33pm
post #49 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by markojp View Post

The trouble is, there are not just some knowledgable people here, but folks who make a living at this ski thing who are known nationally, others have competed at high levels in the various disciplines, have done pretty amazing touring, etc..  Many here have midwestern roots and are thankful for for having had access to the sport and learned to ski there, but over the years, skiing is something that eventually requires a good deal of humility. Whenever I allow myself to think I've been there and done that, there are reminders that several here who've done it more and done it better. I have to chuckle... For and example, there was a thread awhile back about 'what was steep?'. A week later someone posts a video and picture TR of skiing the north face of the Aiguille du Midi... kind of made the 'steep' thread's 'gnarl and schralp'  look like amateur hour.  Being new to any forum is a little like getting on a chair with a stranger. We wouldn't mind a friendly exchange about the day, weather, what's skiing well, etc... but most will shut down when an unknown party broadcasts their great skill and experience. The best don't.  Hang out, share, listen, learn, avoid the temptation to boast, etc... and laugh.  Oh, and welcome! smile.gif

Now back to your regularly scheduled boot stiffness selection discussion. 

Wasn't boasting just quantifying... Skiing is my passion & although I started boarding in the early 80's, I lost touch with the sport for a LONG while...

It wasn't that long ago I had difficulty traversing a bunny hill & have progressed quickly since. Hell, I'm not sure 60+ mph is really all that quick? It's the fastest I've gone & that's my only barometer.

Difficulty of the written word without intonation, facial expressions, body language and all the non verbal cues that relay a message accurately results in only partially accurate messaging for those of us not gifted as authors. Given my challenges of the written word & dependence on my dry & personable sense of humor, I defer to y'all for insights to this passion & lifestyle we call skiing!

Thanks for the welcome!!

BTW, I haven't so much as met Ms. Anderson... Wouldn't mind tho! CHEERS!
post #50 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spengail View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky View Post

Note, his average is 13. For ten feet, while the satellite had a cloud in front of it, it lost him, then found him in a different spot than expected and decided for that ten feet, he must have been going 60 mph.

Nice to be referred to so dismissively in the third person!

Averages include the entire time the tracker was running. (This includes time in queue, putting skis on, après topside, helping others on the hill, etc...)

I've been either skiing or snowboarding since the early 80's. I had a Burton Woody 145 before boards were allowed on a vast majority of hills / mountains ANYWHERE. I ski Norton Fire Arrow 80ti's now because they are a GREAT front side carving machine. Especially so given the Midwest groomed ice we have to deal with locally.

Am I as knowledgable as many here, HECK NO! I do however bring vast knowledge to this lifestyle and this board and would appreciate a modicum of respect much less a "Welcome" to this newbie.

Nice job on representing yourself. I hope it's not reflective of the majority here...


Don't worry about it.  No one here speaks for everyone.   Doubting speeds has a long history here.

 

From just one of many gps speed threads, http://www.epicski.com/t/120477/high-din-binding-question/30

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by beyond View Post

Letsee in order: 1) A downhill mostly follows the contour of the mountain. Gates are few; turns are dictated primarily by the direction and topo of the course. As a result, downhill courses cannot be too steep for too long or no one could hold a line. So they tend to have transitions for the sake of controlling speed. GS courses, by contrast, are typically about the same pitch as a black run; gates will approximate the same 25-35 m turns that a good skier will carve on a firm 30 degree slope. Again, though, the real issue is speed control. If a GS course is too steep, the skis will accelerate too much between gates, creating unreasonably high G-forces in the turn. So as with a downhill or SG, you want a hill that's as steep as possible that will allow a strong skier to hold a line. And again, transitions help. First conclusion: The speeds I quoted for WC racers will be faster than almost any recreational skier can achieve on the same slope without losing control of his/her line. 

 

Now obviously, you can straightline anything; I see intermediates doing it all the time. But on firm snow at the pitch of a GS course, straightlining after a few seconds will produce significant periods when the ski is no longer in contact with the snow. Any idea that anyone on Epic would be "in control" at that point is illusionary physics. It's just about luck and balance. IMO, whatever you want to call that, it's not skiing, anymore than twisting the throttle of a liter class bike and managing not to get ripped off the seat is riding a motorcycle.

 

2) The speeds I quoted are averages, determined by distance and time, not by a speed trap.

 

3) If you're using GPS to calculate your speed, suggest you consult the other thread, some good info on the problems of assuming accuracy. If you're using a radar gun, suggest you Google the various problems they have which tend to produce lot of variance. If you're using a laser, it's pretty accurate and you're pretty rich. 

 

Conclusion: I do not believe most of the speeds I read about on these threads. Sorry. th_dunno-1[1].gif


Nice hijack.gif, It's OK though, the OP has been answered on page 1. 

Average speed from start to finish, not average speed in the middle of the course, or at the fastest portion of the course.

for comparison, the maximum speed on a DH is Johan Clarey's 100.6 mph at the Wengen downhill in Switzerland.

 

Skiing in control means being able to make turns that avoid the skiers and objects in front of you, not being able to make the turn set by an evil course setter to throw you off your game and seperate the best skiers from the good skiers.  You can still ski in control faster without making the gate even if you are not the best skier.  

 

If you're saying that anyone skiing faster than the average speed on a GS course set is skiing out of control or that the average speed on a gs course is the limit for skiers who are not WC athletes skiing in control, you have lost a lot of credibility.

 

To save time, here's a summary of those threads.biggrin.gif

 

How fast do you ski?

a:I ski x miles per hour.

b:That's not possible, unless you are on a WC team, and wearing a speed suit. What makes you think you ski that fast?

a:I'm going by comparing it to speeds on my bicycle that has a speedometer, and how much eye protection I need to see, speeds on a motorcycle, etc..

b:That's not good enough, you need better measurements than that.

a:OK, I bought a $750 handheld GPS unit that records every second and has a rated accuracy of plus or minus y mph, and it says consistently that I ski x miles per hour.

b:GPS is highly inaccurate.  Unless you had a radar gun showing your speed, you were not going that fast.

c:I went to the TGR speed day, we had a radar gun, I skied x miles an hour,  another skier skied  x miles an hour switch in baggy clothes.

b:That radar must have been faulty.

a:A couple of decades ago, I went to the Jay Peak Citizen's race as a last minute entry and they used a calibrated radar gun to show my speed was x miles an hour wearing a parka and jeans, even though I had to stand up out of my tuck for several seconds to kill speed until some clown standing in the middle of the course looking uphill to see if there was another skier coming down got out of the way, and I know the speed was much lower than what I usually ski when going for speed.

b:I don't believe it.

 

On the other hand, it is summer here and those threads are entertaining; go ahead and read 'em all. cool.gif

post #51 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by tball View Post

Question: the common wisdom here says you can't stiffen a boot, but can't you add a stiff Intuition liner to stiffen it up a bit?.

Tball, check out the zip fit liners.
post #52 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spengail View Post



I stand corrected on the pitch, 27 not 34 for this days outting...


My GPS showed my top speed at 120mph on Boston Mills in Ohio.  It was the only time I used it, because it was obviously wrong.

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