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Expert Boot Advice given by Jeff, Boot Fixation - Page 2  

post #31 of 178
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by rwta:
hi jeff,
try to be sort:
POINTS
1.no boot fitter where i live
2.100kgr agressive skier
3.skied always with hard boots(Grand Prix-nordica)with no probl.
4.last year got SALOMON Crossmax 10.0 race boots-at end of season couldnt ski or even walk with those boots.CAUSEn both legs under the unkle,and over the chamber:i have a litle bone that excels

question
1.i have 2 otions on boots A:tecnica Icon or the Hot form model
B:ROSSIGNOL SOFT 1 boots.(my only consideration is that the softs might be rather litle for me)(I DONT HAVE THE ABILITY TO TRY THEM)

PLEASE HELP IM COMFUSED-WHAT DO YOU INSIST?
really thnx
rwta,

Too bad about your Salomon's, they are good boots. Without a bootfitter, your only option is to get a boot that is fairly big in the ankle area. My recommendation is to get to a bootfitter, because you will most likely get poor control.

If this is simply not an option, I would probably go with the Tecnica Icon Hot Form. I would definitely avoid the soft boot.

Jeff
post #32 of 178
Hi Jeff:

Really appreciate you taking the time to answer questions. Wish I had known about you when I had been staying in Breckenridge March of '02.

Background: Been skiing for 15yrs. I ski the whole mountain exluding launching myself off of cliffs. I have a narrow (approx B width), low volume foot. Size 10 - 10.5 street shoe. I currently have a pair of Raichle Flexon Pro T 310mm shell length (bought new last season). Was previously skiing an old pair (15yrs or so- all red) Flexons that had died. I also tried on : Lange L10, Nordica Doberman, Technica XT, and a Dalbello but the fit was better in the new
Flexons so I went w/'em. Shell fitting was also performed.
I do have a custom footbed, but am due for new ones. An alignment has been performed on the boots.

The liner was heated in a shop using a rubber toe cap, footbed in place, etc. After skiing in them, I headed to a bootfitter in Tahoe (Surefoot @ Squaw) as I had to much volume over the entire top part of my foot (excluding the toes) and the curved area where the foot meets the leg.

In addition, I've experienced pain at the widest, outside portion on both feet in an area where I have a very slight bone protrusion. I have always had these issues, even in the old Flexons. I had the guys at Surefoot widen the shell in the area I was experiencing pain, but it didn't help.
Additionally, some padding was added to the liner to take up some volume, but my feet were still moving around. Cranking the buckles down only increased the pain on the outside area of my feet.

Questions

1) Which new footbeds to buy (see this post by dp: epicski ? Any guidelines would be helpful (brand name, etc). Can or
should the footbeds be made thicker to take up some volume?

2) Should the boot be blown out more in the area where I experience pain? What seems to happen is that
cranking the buckles down makes the boot narrower, as opposed to decreasing the voids/volume between my foot
and the boot itself.

3) Is it time for a ZipFit or Foam liner?

4) Perhaps I should remold the liner? If so, should the bukles be on the loosest setting while the liner cools to prevent the liner from compressing? Any other tips for molding the liner?

I've been strugglig w/these fit issues for years and no boot fitter has been able to remedy them. I really appreciate your feedback!!!!

Thanks,
ski_steep
post #33 of 178
I was alittle P.O.-ed. .... I went to another ski shop yesterday only to get the brush off again.
Someone has got to have a place in the east that can help me with my Boot problem.

Jeff, Let's see if you can work a miracle.
I have never really had a perfect fitting boot. I learned to live with pain because I love the sport. I'm 37 started skiing at the age of 7. I would consider myself a Very Good skier and I like the steeps but avoid the bumps due to my knees(football). I have for years only used rear entry because they don't pinch my leg. My current boots ..Solomon 93 Force size 355/28.5
I'm 5'7 , 245 lbs.. my shoe is a 10.5 EEE. Now this is the tuff part my calf's measure 20 inches around and starts to taper out 9 inches up from the bottom of my foot. I have flat feet and wear orthotics. Every year I look at what's new hoping to find a boot with no success. Can you help.

[ November 18, 2003, 04:49 PM: Message edited by: GreenSki66 ]
post #34 of 178
Quote:
Originally posted by Jeff Bergeron, Boot Fixation:
For the last year, I have been making regular contributions to this site. What I have been doing is answering ski boot questions, and my expertise comes from my 17 years of experience doing alignment, fitting and coaching. I own Boot Fixation in Breckenridge, CO, and I will be releasing a cutting edge book on ski technique sometime this summer (2004).

I think this is a great site and I have enjoyed answering people's question, but there a couple of changes I need to have happen for me to continue contributing. The problem is it is taking far too long for me to answer these questions, and I simply do not have the time. However, I think a few changes could serve everyone involved better.

Here are the ideas...

1. Formatting is extremely important- PLEASE START WITH ALL THE BACKGROUND INFORMATION. THEN AT THE END OF THE EMAIL, NUMBER EACH QUESTION YOU HAVE FOR ME AND KEEP THESE QUESTIONS TOGETHER. What has been happening is I have to sort through each email for the questions, which makes it very easy for me to miss some of the questions.

2. If you want to respond to a person's question, that is fine. There have been some good thoughts. Just keep your response short, three to four sentences maximum. If you need more room, contact the person privately, or start a new thread. It takes me too much time to sort these responses from questions, and sometimes I disagree with the responses. I do not have time to correct some of the long responses.

That is about it. I really enjoy being involved with Epic- it is definitely a great group of people. But if this format is not followed I simply will not have the time to respond to questions. I will just stop responding.

So please help me so I can help all of you. If this format is followed, I should be able to check the site at least every week, which is more often than I could last winter.

Also, sometimes it is easier to ask questions on the phone. You are welcome to call me at my shop with questions, as long as they are not too long. The number for Boot Fixation is 970-453-8546. I am even happy to call back if I am either not at the shop or just cannot talk.

Let's stay in touch,

Jeff Bergeron
post #35 of 178
I had custom liners made for my boots, Icon(the softest Icon).Also, custom footbeds. I had to then have the boot softened considerably to get the flex I needed. I am a decent, technical skier, just getting into bumps/trees;very wide foot. Questions:1.How much stiffer to custom liners make the boot? 2. I dont really get the difference between the softest Technic Icons and and the stiffer Rival series. I am looking for something with softer flex(i am 175lbs) but solid rear and lateral support. 3. any reccomendations
post #36 of 178
Greenski66- This may or may not help, but whatcha think of the following?----

Flat feet / fallen arches. When we have this situation then most likely another problem may be present: The tarsal arch. This is where the toes meet the rest of the foot. When arches go south quite often so do the tarsal arches. When this happens and the foot gets squeezed by the boot, the foot elongates and the tarsals and meta tarsals push together because the tarsal arch is no longer there to keep them in the proper places any longer. The result is a terrible stabbing pain which can occur anywhere those bones meet and rub together. Mine were so bad just in one foot that I had to sit down and take my boot off for a minute or so.

Take your foot bed out (the SuperFeet)and turn them over. locate where the toes would meet the rest of the foot. Apply a 1 to 1.5 inch square pad about 3/16 inch thick to the underside of the foot bed. This repositions the tarsal arch to its proper position, keeping the bones where they belong.

I have no idea if this is your problem, but it wouldn't hurt to try it. One or two of those little square bandaids might work, or some layers of gauze with duct tape. My boot fitter nailed this one for me in a heartbeat and solved my pain I had for years. He even showed me a model of the foot he has in the shop to show me what those bones do when the tarsal arches fall as well as the main arches. That pad feels funny at first but the pain is gone. I caqn live with that! [img]smile.gif[/img]
post #37 of 178
Background: my son needs new boots. He is almost 9, and a tall kid with the requisite big feet. He's pushing 5 feet and weighs 84 lb, and he's in a 6.5/7 men's shoe (at least he was during summer). He's a pretty accomplished skier, very comfortable on easy to moderate blacks but still has trouble in sketchy conditions. He is a typical kid, loving the trees and jumps and bumps as well as the runs.

Questions: He has an adult foot size but not an adult body or strength. Does this matter? Will adult boots come up too high on his leg? If we use a softer and lighter women's boot, I'm worried that the larger cuff size won't hold his calf properly. Are these concerns valid? Any suggestions on a boot, or at least a direction? We've purchased boots in the past, since inexpensive junior boots were easy to find, but I don't want to spend a bundle on boots that he'll outgrow in a year.
post #38 of 178
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by ski_steep:
[QB]Hi Jeff:

Really appreciate you taking the time to answer questions. Wish I had known about you when I had been staying in Breckenridge March of '02.

Background: Been skiing for 15yrs. I ski the whole mountain exluding launching myself off of cliffs. I have a narrow (approx B width), low volume foot. Size 10 - 10.5 street shoe. I currently have a pair of Raichle Flexon Pro T 310mm shell length (bought new last season). Was previously skiing an old pair (15yrs or so- all red) Flexons that had died. I also tried on : Lange L10, Nordica Doberman, Technica XT, and a Dalbello but the fit was better in the new
Flexons so I went w/'em. Shell fitting was also performed.
I do have a custom footbed, but am due for new ones. An alignment has been performed on the boots.

The liner was heated in a shop using a rubber toe cap, footbed in place, etc. After skiing in them, I headed to a bootfitter in Tahoe (Surefoot @ Squaw) as I had to much volume over the entire top part of my foot (excluding the toes) and the curved area where the foot meets the leg.

In addition, I've experienced pain at the widest, outside portion on both feet in an area where I have a very slight bone protrusion. I have always had these issues, even in the old Flexons. I had the guys at Surefoot widen the shell in the area I was experiencing pain, but it didn't help.
Additionally, some padding was added to the liner to take up some volume, but my feet were still moving around. Cranking the buckles down only increased the pain on the outside area of my feet.

Questions

1) Which new footbeds to buy (see this post by dp: epicski ? Any guidelines would be helpful (brand name, etc). Can or
should the footbeds be made thicker to take up some volume?

2) Should the boot be blown out more in the area where I experience pain? What seems to happen is that
cranking the buckles down makes the boot narrower, as opposed to decreasing the voids/volume between my foot
and the boot itself.

3) Is it time for a ZipFit or Foam liner?

4) Perhaps I should remold the liner? If so, should the bukles be on the loosest setting while the liner cools to prevent the liner from compressing? Any other tips for molding the liner?

I've been strugglig w/these fit issues for years and no boot fitter has been able to remedy them. I really appreciate your feedback!!!!

Ski Steep

First of all, I have had many of the same problems that you have described, so I do "feel your pain."

1. What footbeds you use is less important than the person doing them. I have my preferrences, but no system currently can make up for a poorly skilled boot tech. I would not worry about how thick the footbeds are, either. Just add a shim if it is absolutely necessary.

2. I would probably grind your boot shells. Overtightening can cause many problems.

3. I am guessing that you have a very flat foot. Perhaps you should try some Bontex shims before you replace the liner. Liner replacements have their own problems.

4. In your situation, I might remold the liners with the buckles at their loosest and without a footbed to take up extra room.

Basically, I suspect your boots are not so great for you. I would guess one of the other boots would have fit more tightly, although would have probably required at least a little bit of fitting. While I love the Rachle Flexon Original series, it just does not sound as if it is working.

Good Luck,
Jeff
post #39 of 178
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by segbrown:
Background: my son needs new boots. He is almost 9, and a tall kid with the requisite big feet. He's pushing 5 feet and weighs 84 lb, and he's in a 6.5/7 men's shoe (at least he was during summer). He's a pretty accomplished skier, very comfortable on easy to moderate blacks but still has trouble in sketchy conditions. He is a typical kid, loving the trees and jumps and bumps as well as the runs.

Questions: He has an adult foot size but not an adult body or strength. Does this matter? Will adult boots come up too high on his leg? If we use a softer and lighter women's boot, I'm worried that the larger cuff size won't hold his calf properly. Are these concerns valid? Any suggestions on a boot, or at least a direction? We've purchased boots in the past, since inexpensive junior boots were easy to find, but I don't want to spend a bundle on boots that he'll outgrow in a year.
segbrown,

You did not quite follow my format, because you did not number your questions. Try to do this in the future.

Since you at least made an effort to follow my format, I will answer your questions.

Your son is definitely big for 9, but is still not quite heavy enough for adult boots. I think you should have him try one of the Lange junior boots. The Comp 80 will probably be best, but the Comp 70 may be ok.

I generally do not recommend adult boots for skiers under 100lbs, although there are times when I make exceptions.

Jeff
post #40 of 178
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by sns:
I had custom liners made for my boots, Icon(the softest Icon).Also, custom footbeds. I had to then have the boot softened considerably to get the flex I needed. I am a decent, technical skier, just getting into bumps/trees;very wide foot. Questions:1.How much stiffer to custom liners make the boot? 2. I dont really get the difference between the softest Technic Icons and and the stiffer Rival series. I am looking for something with softer flex(i am 175lbs) but solid rear and lateral support. 3. any reccomendations
sns,

1. What kind of custom liner are you talking about? Foam and silicon liners make boots a bit stiffer, although this greatly depends on how "sticky" the outside liner is. Hotform liners (which are what I beleive you are talking about) have little impact on flex, although do not radically change the fit of a boot.

2. In general, the Icon series is stiffer than the Rival series, not the other way around. To soften your boot, pull out the flex tabs in the upper part of the lower shell. Then move the flex adjustment to the softest position. If you have already done this, then have a good boot fitter modify the boots' flex. If you cannot find a good fitter, get another boot.

3. In my opinion, the Icon series flexes well for larger people and very poorly for smaller folks. You are big enough that I do not think you should have a problem with this boot. If you are still not satisfied, perhaps you try a Nordica W series boot- the W8, W10, W12.

Jeff
post #41 of 178
[quote]Originally posted by Jeff Bergeron, Boot Fixation:
Quote:
Originally posted by redcarver:
[qb]Jeff,

My girlfriend needs to buy new boots. She is 1.60m tall and weights 50 kg (i think but i'm close) and is still using the snow-plow quite often so i can't tell you what her level is but i guess somewhere between beginner and low-intermediate. The problem is that her current boots are holding her back because she doesn't have the weight to flex them (she is skiing in Lange Anthea model black with a gel tongue). So she desperately needs softer boots. She can only buy Tecnica boots (i don't think that is a problem).I did some search on Entryx and Rival lines from Tecnica because the 7senses line is not available. Here are the questions:

1.What models from the Entryx or Rival lines do you reccomend taking into consideration the differences between these two lines and if you can't decide what model might be best please reccomend the best model from each line for her?
2.What flex index do you think might suit her better 50 or 60 (because 70 might be too much and when she will improve she can use the Anthea model)?
3.What flex index has the lange model?


Thanks.....
Redcarver,

In my opinion, the Lange Anthea was a truly terrible boot, so probably anything you buy will be an improvement. Both the Entryx and the Rival are decent boots for her level of skiing, although the former may not be enough boot as she progresses. Both are very wide, so they be too big for performance skiing.

I do not pay much attention to the flex indexes of lower level boots, because their poor quality plastic prohibits good flexing. I would just check and make sure she can get at least some flex from the upper cuff of the boot.

Are you asking me what the flex index of the Lange Anthea is? If so, it would have probably been given a rating of 70-90, despite the fact that it really cannot be flexed. A more accurate rating would have been 220, or stiffer than any race boot.

Jeff,

My girlfriend tried on a few pairs of boots mainly from the Rival line. Problem is that she wears size 23.5 in the Lange boot and the smallest size Tecnica makes is 23.0 (for both Rival and Entryx) so the boots weren't snug enough, even in that size (this is as you said that both lines are very wide).
She also tried on a boot from the junior line called Rider or Rider Super (can't remember exactly but it was a four-buckle design for sure) in size 22.0 and it was a snug fit. Of course she could flex them.
I am considering junior boots for 3 reasons:
- they also come in smaller sizes than 23.0
- she can flex them
- they use a softer material in the shell (i think) so this could help her when temperatures drop.

As a result of this, my questions are:

1. Do you think she should consider junior boots (taking into consideration the fit and flex)?

2. If so, what model do you reccomend?

3. If you have another idea...


Your advice is greatly appreciated.
Thanks...
post #42 of 178
Quote:
Originally posted by Jeff Bergeron, Boot Fixation:
segbrown,
Your son is definitely big for 9, but is still not quite heavy enough for adult boots. I think you should have him try one of the Lange junior boots. The Comp 80 will probably be best, but the Comp 70 may be ok.

I generally do not recommend adult boots for skiers under 100lbs, although there are times when I make exceptions.

Jeff[/QB][/quote]

segbrown

This is good advice and your son would do fine with either the Comp 70 or 80. My son just turned 9 last month and like your son he's big for his age (pushing 5"5" and 100+ lbs.) and wears an adult 9.5 shoe. We tried both boots and settled with the Comp 80 since he liked the firmness of the boot and the shop tech felt the 80 was the way to go. Cuff heigth was not an issue with either boot.
post #43 of 178
Hi Jeff,
Background :My feet is 24.7 cm long ( weighted ) , during last few years I used Tecnica Expl.8 boots size 24.5 sole length 287 mm( shell sizing indicates 20 mm between heel and shell ) with normal memory foam liners . Was very happy with them but now liners are packed so I decided to buy Icon Alu Comp Hot Form . I ordered size 24.0 sole length 287 mm ( shell sizing 22 mm ) .
Problem : New boots are a bit roomier then the old ones . The liner is snugier but a shade longer , my big toe can't reach the liner's end ( I like to have that contact ). Next size down is 23.5 but with sole length 279 mm so I'm afraid that it could be too small . It is not possible to try smaller Icon Alu Comp boots .They are for special order only .
Question : How to cure that a bit too roomy feeling , especialy in forefoot area ?
Thank you , Mark .
PS. I got as a gift a pair of Head SPS World Cup boots ( model 2000/01 I think ). Fits me very well ... but I have not opportunity to fill them by silicone in Headfit centre , they can fill only foam models .
Question : What kind of silicone is used for filling boots and is it approachable on the market ?
Thank you once more .

[ December 14, 2003, 11:25 AM: Message edited by: Lobo ]
post #44 of 178
Jeff,

Background: male, 230-240lbs, 6'1", aggressive, fast skier. Enjoys steeps, billygoating, air, and laying down railroad tracks on fat boards with modest side cut.

Question 1) What is your take on canting/balancing a ski boot by grinding the sole then replacing material on the toe and heal bales to compensate for the sole grind and keep the boot within DIN standards? Is this a common practice with skilled boot-fitters?
Editorial: I had a boot fitter (one of the best according to his referals) do this on my 03 XWave 10s. I needed to mount a pair of skis. After being turned away by 3 shops, I finally had to bribe a shop tech to do the mounting - reason I was told was liability issues with mounting skis with a "modified" boot.

Question 2) Is the 2004 Xwave 10 a softer flexing boot than the 03? Salomon doesn't list the flex index on their site. I've seen the Flex index listed as either 100 or 110.

thanks

[ December 06, 2003, 05:35 PM: Message edited by: Bullet ]
post #45 of 178
Jeff,

Intermediate skier, usually ski 12-20 times per year, but that will ilkely increase. I've skied the crap out of my Lange DH boots, and have a budget of $300 for replacements. That could get me some very good Lowa ATs that are on sale nearby. I have no BC experience, but that would change with these boots.

1. Considering the price, what do I forfeit with these versus a similarly priced pair of pure DHs?

2. Other that the opportunity for BC access, what are the advantages with these boots?
post #46 of 178
Jeff, thanks for sticking around to do this for another season.

Background: Level 8+ skier, park to BC skier, 5'8" 160lbs. Foot shape is high volume, wide forefoot, high arches, relatively narrow heels. Very good natural alignement. I've been on X-Wave 10s (26.5) for the past three seasons, with footbeds, stretching, and a little grinding by a reputable fitter. I went to him, because I would get tremendous pain across the arch of my foot during "high-impact" skiing... moguls, park, sometimes in the trees when it's firm. So bad I have to take the boot off on the hill. The work he did helped a lot, I can now tour comfortably in the boots, but I still get that same pain in pounding conditions. He suggested it was my lack of achilles and hamstring flexibility, and I believe him. However, the footbeds still don't FEEL very supportive to me, though he claims they are correct. I still get numbness on my outer forefoot and some pain across my arches. I also am starting to get a little heel lift from packout, but a few well placed pieces of foam seem to have helped.

1) Would a stiffer boot help prevent me from leveraging my foot bones the way I do? I don't feel like I should be in a stiffer boot, but if it helps the pain, it would be worth it.
2)Also, should a footbed feel very supportive? I can't tell if it feels "neutral" or unsupportive.
3) Would a foam liner (like conformable, etc.) in my X-waves do anything for me at this point? I'm actually considering starting from scratch with a plug boot to solve my problems, but am worried about the lack of warmth.

Thanks,
-flip
post #47 of 178
Hello Jeff!
Background: Female skier, 5'8"/150lbs. Strong intermediate with some skidding in technique. Upgraded to Salomon Xwave 9.0 to correct ankle pain. Fitted with stock Superfeet foam footbed (green) and 11mm heel lift block (in a 25.5 boot).

She has been fighting symptoms very like Morton's neuroma, (pain and pinched numbness in the forefoot area) except they are so intermittent they have never been diagnosed as such. This is mostly a summertime problem, but has happened on the hill with the new ski boots, possibly due to previous irritation with other footgear.

Questions:
1. I have seen metatarsal "buttons" applied to footbeds in other sports. Is there anything like that for skiing?
2. How would a ski-specific footbed be different from anything else an orthopedist would design?

Thanks for any help!
post #48 of 178
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Lobo:
Hi Jeff,
Background :My feet is 24.7 cm long ( weighted ) , during last few years I used Tecnica Expl.8 boots size 24.5 sole length 287 mm( shell sizing indicates 20 mm between heel and shell ) with normal memory foam liners . Was very happy with them but now liners are packed so I decided to buy Icon Alu Comp Hot Form . I ordered size 24.0 sole length 287 mm ( shell sizing 22 mm ) .
Problem : New boots are a bit roomier then the old ones . The liner is snugier but a shade longer , my big toe can't reach the liner's end ( I like to have that contact ). Next size down is 23.5 but with sole length 279 mm so I'm afraid that it could be too small . It is not possible to try smaller Icon Alu Comp boots .They are for special order only .
Question : How to cure that a bit too roomy feeling , especialy in forefoot area ?
Thank you , Mark .
PS. I've got as a gift a pair of Head SPS World Cup boots ( model 2000/01 I think ). Fits me very well ... but I have not opportunity to fill them by silicone in Headfit centre , they can fill only foam models .
Question : What kind of silicone is used for filling boots and is it approachable on the market ?
Thank you once more .
Lobo,

Certainly I would prefer to get you in the smaller boot and do whatever grinding is necessary to make it fit. If this is not possible, you can make your current boots tighter in height by adding a 1/16 or 1/8" Bontex shim under your liner. For length, add neoprene to the toebox of the liner to decrease the length. This neoprene can be stitched to the inside or the outside.

As for your PS, the silicon is just a standard boot product. It is similar to what Zipfit uses and it requires a gun to use it. I am not a fan of silicon liners, but they can work ok.

Jeff
post #49 of 178
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Bullet:
Jeff,

Background: male, 230-240lbs, 6'1", aggressive, fast skier. Enjoys steeps, billygoating, air, and laying down railroad tracks on fat boards with modest side cut.

Question 1) What is your take on canting/balancing a ski boot by grinding the sole then replacing material on the toe and heal bales to compensate for the sole grind and keep the boot within DIN standards? Is this a common practice with skilled boot-fitters?
Editorial: I had a boot fitter (one of the best according to his referals) do this on my 03 XWave 10s. I needed to mount a pair of skis. After being turned away by 3 shops, I finally had to bribe a shop tech to do the mounting - reason I was told was liability issues with mounting skis with a "modified" boot.

Question 2) Is the 2004 Xwave 10 a softer flexing boot than the 03? Salomon doesn't list the flex index on their site. I've seen the Flex index listed as either 100 or 110.

thanks
Bullet,

When done properly, boot sole canting is an absolute necessity for some skiers. Unfortunately, most people who do it are not properly trained, including so well known franchises. It also requires expensive materials that are very hard to work with. Where most shops run into problems is they use poor materials to bond to the toe and heel lugs and they do not have the tools to make a perfect surface. One good option is to cant the boots and attach a boot lifter to it. The the DIN height is reestablished by lowering the high side of the heel and toe lugs. I could write a short book on this subject, but I am going to stop here.

As for mounting bindings, the shops are given liability release forms that allow them to do any work you request. Unfortunately, ski techs who are poorly trained,lazy or incompetent find it much easier to just say no. It can be very frustrating. I will limit my rantings on this subject.

I am not sure about the flex from 2003 to 2004, but I can tell you that the XWave has gotten softer over the last few years. While this is a good thing for most skiers, it may not be good for someone your size. Perhaps riveting the back of the boot could help you. The spot should be marked on the back of the boot with small circles.

Jeff
post #50 of 178
Thread Starter 
Jeff,

My girlfriend tried on a few pairs of boots mainly from the Rival line. Problem is that she wears size 23.5 in the Lange boot and the smallest size Tecnica makes is 23.0 (for both Rival and Entryx) so the boots weren't snug enough, even in that size (this is as you said that both lines are very wide).
She also tried on a boot from the junior line called Rider or Rider Super (can't remember exactly but it was a four-buckle design for sure) in size 22.0 and it was a snug fit. Of course she could flex them.
I am considering junior boots for 3 reasons:
- they also come in smaller sizes than 23.0
- she can flex them
- they use a softer material in the shell (i think) so this could help her when temperatures drop.

As a result of this, my questions are:

1. Do you think she should consider junior boots (taking into consideration the fit and flex)?

2. If so, what model do you reccomend?

3. If you have another idea...

Redcarver,

Unfortunately, you are looking for what can be described as a half-butted solution. I am an expert on good boot solutions not poor solutions. I suspect the the Riders will be ok, but it is not ideal. Perhaps the boots could be riveted to stiffen them slightly. Ideal is getting a good adult boot in her size. I could spend hours describing how to make a poor boot ok, but it is not worth the effort. Good Luck.

Jeff
post #51 of 178
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Scott F:
Jeff,

Intermediate skier, usually ski 12-20 times per year, but that will ilkely increase. I've skied the crap out of my Lange DH boots, and have a budget of $300 for replacements. That could get me some very good Lowa ATs that are on sale nearby. I have no BC experience, but that would change with these boots.

1. Considering the price, what do I forfeit with these versus a similarly priced pair of pure DHs?

2. Other that the opportunity for BC access, what are the advantages with these boots?
Scott F,

1. You will sacrifice response if you go to the AT boot. When your leg moves, it will not get completely transmitted into the ski. For this reason, I only recommend backcountry boots for alpining to highly skilled skiers. Ski coaches are the most common uses of these boots for alpining.

2. These boots may be more comfortable and force you to develop better balance skills.

Jeff
post #52 of 178
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by flip:
Jeff, thanks for sticking around to do this for another season.

Background: Level 8+ skier, park to BC skier, 5'8" 160lbs. Foot shape is high volume, wide forefoot, high arches, relatively narrow heels. Very good natural alignement. I've been on X-Wave 10s (26.5) for the past three seasons, with footbeds, stretching, and a little grinding by a reputable fitter. I went to him, because I would get tremendous pain across the arch of my foot during "high-impact" skiing... moguls, park, sometimes in the trees when it's firm. So bad I have to take the boot off on the hill. The work he did helped a lot, I can now tour comfortably in the boots, but I still get that same pain in pounding conditions. He suggested it was my lack of achilles and hamstring flexibility, and I believe him. However, the footbeds still don't FEEL very supportive to me, though he claims they are correct. I still get numbness on my outer forefoot and some pain across my arches. I also am starting to get a little heel lift from packout, but a few well placed pieces of foam seem to have helped.

1) Would a stiffer boot help prevent me from leveraging my foot bones the way I do? I don't feel like I should be in a stiffer boot, but if it helps the pain, it would be worth it.
2)Also, should a footbed feel very supportive? I can't tell if it feels "neutral" or unsupportive.
3) Would a foam liner (like conformable, etc.) in my X-waves do anything for me at this point? I'm actually considering starting from scratch with a plug boot to solve my problems, but am worried about the lack of warmth.

Thanks,
-flip
Flip,

Good questions. Unfortunately, even though your foot shape is quite common, there are no boots that will perfectly match your foot shape. Still some are better than others, and the Salomon should be at least ok.

1. Stiffer boots are good for heavier people and those with limited ankle flexion.

2. I am not sure why your footbeds feel unsupportive, but it is not ideal. That said, I do not think this factor has much to do with your pain. I suspect that it is either limited ankle flex or that the materials of the footbed are too hard.

3. Your situation is one of the few where I might recommend a foam liner. The reason is that there are no boots that are wide in the front by narrow in the heel, so the foam can help make up for the difference. However, I do not feel it will lessen the pain in your feet.

4. Plug boots are great, but they are not warm. You could consider putting a thermofit liner into a plug shell. The Tecnica XT17 and the new Atomic Race Tech may work well with your feet.

Jeff
post #53 of 178
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by comprex:
Hello Jeff!
Background: Female skier, 5'8"/150lbs. Strong intermediate with some skidding in technique. Upgraded to Salomon Xwave 9.0 to correct ankle pain. Fitted with stock Superfeet foam footbed (green) and 11mm heel lift block (in a 25.5 boot).

She has been fighting symptoms very like Morton's neuroma, (pain and pinched numbness in the forefoot area) except they are so intermittent they have never been diagnosed as such. This is mostly a summertime problem, but has happened on the hill with the new ski boots, possibly due to previous irritation with other footgear.

Questions:
1. I have seen metatarsal "buttons" applied to footbeds in other sports. Is there anything like that for skiing?
2. How would a ski-specific footbed be different from anything else an orthopedist would design?

Thanks for any help!
Comprex,

I get my metetarsal pads from a medical supplier. I do not use them very often, but they can be helpful. However, this pain is often caused by a boot that is overly tight, so I would not assume that the problem is due to a neuroma. In many cases, it is actually the liner that is too tight.

Materials and molding techniques vary greatly in ski and medical products. In my opinion, most products in both specialties are of very poor quality. In skiing, the techs rarely have any knowledge of how to work with the body. In medical products, most are made unweighted, which make it impossible to properly control the foot position. They are also usually made of too hard of materials. Again, these are only my opinions on the subject.

The bottom line with footbeds and orthotics is the quality of the person making them. There are excellent people making ski and medical products, but they are usually very hard to find. Let me give you a recent example of this.

Last summer I had a girl in who was a competive figure skater. She had purchased some orthotics that had cost her parents $900. She came to me because she was in agony, whether she used the new orthotics or not. This pain was so bad that she was considering quitting skating, and her skating looked awkward at best. When I did my evaluation, I found she had some major alignment issues and her $900 orthotics were only making the situation worse. This was made even clearer when I watched her skate. I made her a set of footbeds that corrected her alignment and went to the ice rink with her. Her misalignment had disappeared and most of the pain had as well. I did some minor fitting and got rid of the rest of the pain. I talked to her mother last week and the pain has never come back and her skills have greatly improved. Best of all, she is having fun skating again.

The point of this story is not how great I am (although I like that part), it is how different the quality of footbeds and orthotics can be. It only depends on their maker, and often has little to do with how much you pay for them. Good luck.

Jeff
post #54 of 178
Yo, Jeff
Is it true that "The Best Boot Fits Best"?
And a custom foot bed and getting the foot into a Talis neutral. position will fix most probs. that skiers have?
That would have saved that sk8ter $900.00 clams.
What about Pronation VS supanatiated (sp?)feet?
Pos delta and neg delta?
Thanks for your reply in advance.
BTW, MR.T just bolts his boots driectly to his skis and deals with the pain!

[ December 11, 2003, 06:20 AM: Message edited by: Mr.T ]
post #55 of 178
Hi Jeff, thanks for the help in advance and for all that you've given so far.

I'm 5'7", 145 lbs, male, expert skier. Instruct / assist once a week with the handicap program. Ski all conditions and turn shapes. I'm in Rossi carve zx's for the past year. Flex is decent, could be a little more progressive. Fit great (the only boot I could fit in that would keep my heel down) with the exception of 4 problems:

a) When I'm not on edge constantly, the balls of my feet hurt (burn and cramp up)

b) When I ski bumps my outstep cramps up, particularly earlier in the day

c) I have low and wide calves

d) My toes get cold pretty easily

I've heard that a loss of circulation in your calf area can contribute to cold toes.

1. Should I keep my boots and just get them worked on and footbeds?

2. Should I consider a woman's boot like the Rossi 9.2 Woman's?
post #56 of 178
Hi Jeff,

Thank you for helping us.

Background - my 4-y.o daughter. Last year we bought her some barely used rear-entry kiddie boots - they were fine, with enough room in front and around the foot, so with an extra pair of thick socks and an insole she was OK. This year, she fills the boot completely - duh!, but her toes are just barely touching the toebox front end when she stands leaning back. Once she leans her knees forward - the toes are fine, and there is plenty of wriggle room.

However, as she was walking around house in those boots (getting ready to hit the slopes), she said that on the inside, where the heel becomes arch, she feels pain.

Questions:

1. Is there anything that can be done for her with these boots, or do we need to get her another pair?

2. Will the pain of walking go away when she starts skiing - or will it get worse?

[ December 15, 2003, 03:52 PM: Message edited by: AlexG ]
post #57 of 178
Jeff, The Boot Guru. Hello, I am 190. 5'10". Intermediate level, was advanced until ACL operation to my left knee. Want to progress again with my skiing. Problem, I have wide feet w/heavy pronation, and skiiny ankles and calves and some circulation issues in my toes at times with tight boots. What boots should I look at that might be best suited for my situation. I will never be a expert skier, but if I can get back to skiing at a semi agressive level in powder or groomed conditions, no big bumps that will be fine. I am so tired of having to stop 3 times a day and take my boots off for an hour before I can go back at it. Thank you, Jigstrike
post #58 of 178
Hi Jeff -

Thanks for all the great tips and for helping people out!

I'm a guy, 40, 5'9", 160 advanced expert skier, 50+ days a year, love the pow & steeps, only ski groomers as a means of access. I like a narrow heel pocket as I can't stand my heel slipping when I ski. I have a high arch which is proving to be difficult to manage.

Ski'd on Lange Zero X 9 - Size 7 - 298mm boot sole length
from 96-99. Had custom footbeds in 'em, lots of custom bootwork, ground down the baseboard and lots of toebox grinds/punches. Loved these boots, eventually the shells cracked.

Replaced w/Lange L10 race fit in same - Size 7 - 298mm boot sole length.
Could never get these to fit properly. Again had baseboard ground down, lots of toe box grinds. Big toes and right pinky toe were always crunched and my high arch always caused pain on highest point of top of both feet. This pressure caused the toes to go numb sometimes and hurt always. Eventually had what the boot fitter called a "tongue-ectomy" where a quarter sized section of the liner is cut out and replaced with a thinner foam material to lessen the thickness and therefore the pressure on the top of the feet. The results were marginal at best.

It was recommended to me to try some Head boots as they had a nice narrow heal pocket but more room in the toe box. I got a deal on a pair of
Head WorldCup Ti N-97 - Size 26.0 - 300mm boot sole length.
Whereas the toebox is nice & roomy and the heel is nice and snug, I'm still stuck with my arch trouble. The baseboards were ground down but the tops of my feet are still screaming. I've only ski'd a couple days on 'em and don't really wanna go the "toungue-ectomy" route being recommended again.
I did try wearing the boots around the house with the stock footbeds, just to see, but the top of foot pain was worse than with the custom ones.

1) Is there a brand/model of boots you specifically recommend for high arched feet?

2) Any suggestions on what I can do/have done to alleviate my top of foot pain with the existing boots?

3) Will a custom liner like a zipfit solve my troubles?

Thanks Jeff,

Andy
post #59 of 178
Height: 188cm
Weight: 105kg
Skied daily from 9-17 yrs old- pause until 29-skied for 3 seasons now in shoes obviously NOT going to get better. Im now in Head cross FR 9.0 size 27.0-27.5
My feet are 110-113 mm wide and I have pain in the footarch and on the inside (footarch) side of the inside toeball, and i mean agony after 2 trips! The boot has both been blocked and has a Comformable ski`n blade customized insole. But the tech NEVER shellsized the boot! Can this be the problem?
Anyways Im goin to another bootfitter a little more experienced myself of what so expect. Ive been on the horn and he carries Lange, Strolz, Tecnica and Dolomite. I dont know if my wrist is high, heal small etc. But my heel fit in most shoes Ive tried earlier, even Langes!

[ December 28, 2003, 07:01 AM: Message edited by: Viking ]
post #60 of 178
Hi Jeff,

I am looking for a new pair of boots that will better fit my feet. I currently have Tecnica Icon XR LVL, women's size 9. They are too big. When I ski aggresively I get bruises on the sides of my ankles.

About me: I'm 5'8", 150 pounds. My feet are long and narrow. I wear size 10.5 women's shoe, feet are width A/B except for large bunions, flat feet, pronator with slight bow legs. I like to ski single black diamonds.

Questions:

1. What boots do you recommend for my feet (i.e. long, narrow, flat)?

2. Recently someone told me the only difference between the men & women's Tecnica boots is that the women's have a shorter cuff.
I thought the LVL meant that the actual volume of the boot was less. What is the difference?

Thanks!

Jean
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