Expert Boot Advice given by Jeff, Boot Fixation - Page 2  

rwta,

Too bad about your Salomon's, they are good boots. Without a bootfitter, your only option is to get a boot that is fairly big in the ankle area. My recommendation is to get to a bootfitter, because you will most likely get poor control.

If this is simply not an option, I would probably go with the Tecnica Icon Hot Form. I would definitely avoid the soft boot.

Jeff

[quote]Originally posted by ski_steep:
[QB]Hi Jeff:

Really appreciate you taking the time to answer questions. Wish I had known about you when I had been staying in Breckenridge March of '02.

Background: Been skiing for 15yrs. I ski the whole mountain exluding launching myself off of cliffs. I have a narrow (approx B width), low volume foot. Size 10 - 10.5 street shoe. I currently have a pair of Raichle Flexon Pro T 310mm shell length (bought new last season). Was previously skiing an old pair (15yrs or so- all red) Flexons that had died. I also tried on : Lange L10, Nordica Doberman, Technica XT, and a Dalbello but the fit was better in the new
Flexons so I went w/'em. Shell fitting was also performed.
I do have a custom footbed, but am due for new ones. An alignment has been performed on the boots.

The liner was heated in a shop using a rubber toe cap, footbed in place, etc. After skiing in them, I headed to a bootfitter in Tahoe (Surefoot @ Squaw) as I had to much volume over the entire top part of my foot (excluding the toes) and the curved area where the foot meets the leg.

In addition, I've experienced pain at the widest, outside portion on both feet in an area where I have a very slight bone protrusion. I have always had these issues, even in the old Flexons. I had the guys at Surefoot widen the shell in the area I was experiencing pain, but it didn't help.
Additionally, some padding was added to the liner to take up some volume, but my feet were still moving around. Cranking the buckles down only increased the pain on the outside area of my feet.

Questions

1) Which new footbeds to buy (see this post by dp: epicski ? Any guidelines would be helpful (brand name, etc). Can or
should the footbeds be made thicker to take up some volume?

2) Should the boot be blown out more in the area where I experience pain? What seems to happen is that
cranking the buckles down makes the boot narrower, as opposed to decreasing the voids/volume between my foot
and the boot itself.

3) Is it time for a ZipFit or Foam liner?

4) Perhaps I should remold the liner? If so, should the bukles be on the loosest setting while the liner cools to prevent the liner from compressing? Any other tips for molding the liner?

I've been strugglig w/these fit issues for years and no boot fitter has been able to remedy them. I really appreciate your feedback!!!!

Ski Steep

First of all, I have had many of the same problems that you have described, so I do "feel your pain."

1. What footbeds you use is less important than the person doing them. I have my preferrences, but no system currently can make up for a poorly skilled boot tech. I would not worry about how thick the footbeds are, either. Just add a shim if it is absolutely necessary.

2. I would probably grind your boot shells. Overtightening can cause many problems.

3. I am guessing that you have a very flat foot. Perhaps you should try some Bontex shims before you replace the liner. Liner replacements have their own problems.

4. In your situation, I might remold the liners with the buckles at their loosest and without a footbed to take up extra room.

Basically, I suspect your boots are not so great for you. I would guess one of the other boots would have fit more tightly, although would have probably required at least a little bit of fitting. While I love the Rachle Flexon Original series, it just does not sound as if it is working.

Good Luck,
Jeff

segbrown,

You did not quite follow my format, because you did not number your questions. Try to do this in the future.

Since you at least made an effort to follow my format, I will answer your questions.

Your son is definitely big for 9, but is still not quite heavy enough for adult boots. I think you should have him try one of the Lange junior boots. The Comp 80 will probably be best, but the Comp 70 may be ok.

I generally do not recommend adult boots for skiers under 100lbs, although there are times when I make exceptions.

Jeff

sns,

1. What kind of custom liner are you talking about? Foam and silicon liners make boots a bit stiffer, although this greatly depends on how "sticky" the outside liner is. Hotform liners (which are what I beleive you are talking about) have little impact on flex, although do not radically change the fit of a boot.

2. In general, the Icon series is stiffer than the Rival series, not the other way around. To soften your boot, pull out the flex tabs in the upper part of the lower shell. Then move the flex adjustment to the softest position. If you have already done this, then have a good boot fitter modify the boots' flex. If you cannot find a good fitter, get another boot.

3. In my opinion, the Icon series flexes well for larger people and very poorly for smaller folks. You are big enough that I do not think you should have a problem with this boot. If you are still not satisfied, perhaps you try a Nordica W series boot- the W8, W10, W12.

Jeff

Lobo,

Certainly I would prefer to get you in the smaller boot and do whatever grinding is necessary to make it fit. If this is not possible, you can make your current boots tighter in height by adding a 1/16 or 1/8" Bontex shim under your liner. For length, add neoprene to the toebox of the liner to decrease the length. This neoprene can be stitched to the inside or the outside.

As for your PS, the silicon is just a standard boot product. It is similar to what Zipfit uses and it requires a gun to use it. I am not a fan of silicon liners, but they can work ok.

Jeff

Bullet,

When done properly, boot sole canting is an absolute necessity for some skiers. Unfortunately, most people who do it are not properly trained, including so well known franchises. It also requires expensive materials that are very hard to work with. Where most shops run into problems is they use poor materials to bond to the toe and heel lugs and they do not have the tools to make a perfect surface. One good option is to cant the boots and attach a boot lifter to it. The the DIN height is reestablished by lowering the high side of the heel and toe lugs. I could write a short book on this subject, but I am going to stop here.

As for mounting bindings, the shops are given liability release forms that allow them to do any work you request. Unfortunately, ski techs who are poorly trained,lazy or incompetent find it much easier to just say no. It can be very frustrating. I will limit my rantings on this subject.

I am not sure about the flex from 2003 to 2004, but I can tell you that the XWave has gotten softer over the last few years. While this is a good thing for most skiers, it may not be good for someone your size. Perhaps riveting the back of the boot could help you. The spot should be marked on the back of the boot with small circles.

Jeff

Jeff,

My girlfriend tried on a few pairs of boots mainly from the Rival line. Problem is that she wears size 23.5 in the Lange boot and the smallest size Tecnica makes is 23.0 (for both Rival and Entryx) so the boots weren't snug enough, even in that size (this is as you said that both lines are very wide).
She also tried on a boot from the junior line called Rider or Rider Super (can't remember exactly but it was a four-buckle design for sure) in size 22.0 and it was a snug fit. Of course she could flex them.
I am considering junior boots for 3 reasons:
- they also come in smaller sizes than 23.0
- she can flex them
- they use a softer material in the shell (i think) so this could help her when temperatures drop.

As a result of this, my questions are:

1. Do you think she should consider junior boots (taking into consideration the fit and flex)?

2. If so, what model do you reccomend?

3. If you have another idea...

Redcarver,

Unfortunately, you are looking for what can be described as a half-butted solution. I am an expert on good boot solutions not poor solutions. I suspect the the Riders will be ok, but it is not ideal. Perhaps the boots could be riveted to stiffen them slightly. Ideal is getting a good adult boot in her size. I could spend hours describing how to make a poor boot ok, but it is not worth the effort. Good Luck.

Jeff

Scott F,

1. You will sacrifice response if you go to the AT boot. When your leg moves, it will not get completely transmitted into the ski. For this reason, I only recommend backcountry boots for alpining to highly skilled skiers. Ski coaches are the most common uses of these boots for alpining.

2. These boots may be more comfortable and force you to develop better balance skills.

Jeff

Flip,

Good questions. Unfortunately, even though your foot shape is quite common, there are no boots that will perfectly match your foot shape. Still some are better than others, and the Salomon should be at least ok.

1. Stiffer boots are good for heavier people and those with limited ankle flexion.

2. I am not sure why your footbeds feel unsupportive, but it is not ideal. That said, I do not think this factor has much to do with your pain. I suspect that it is either limited ankle flex or that the materials of the footbed are too hard.

3. Your situation is one of the few where I might recommend a foam liner. The reason is that there are no boots that are wide in the front by narrow in the heel, so the foam can help make up for the difference. However, I do not feel it will lessen the pain in your feet.

4. Plug boots are great, but they are not warm. You could consider putting a thermofit liner into a plug shell. The Tecnica XT17 and the new Atomic Race Tech may work well with your feet.

Jeff

Comprex,

I get my metetarsal pads from a medical supplier. I do not use them very often, but they can be helpful. However, this pain is often caused by a boot that is overly tight, so I would not assume that the problem is due to a neuroma. In many cases, it is actually the liner that is too tight.

Materials and molding techniques vary greatly in ski and medical products. In my opinion, most products in both specialties are of very poor quality. In skiing, the techs rarely have any knowledge of how to work with the body. In medical products, most are made unweighted, which make it impossible to properly control the foot position. They are also usually made of too hard of materials. Again, these are only my opinions on the subject.

The bottom line with footbeds and orthotics is the quality of the person making them. There are excellent people making ski and medical products, but they are usually very hard to find. Let me give you a recent example of this.

Last summer I had a girl in who was a competive figure skater. She had purchased some orthotics that had cost her parents $900. She came to me because she was in agony, whether she used the new orthotics or not. This pain was so bad that she was considering quitting skating, and her skating looked awkward at best. When I did my evaluation, I found she had some major alignment issues and her $900 orthotics were only making the situation worse. This was made even clearer when I watched her skate. I made her a set of footbeds that corrected her alignment and went to the ice rink with her. Her misalignment had disappeared and most of the pain had as well. I did some minor fitting and got rid of the rest of the pain. I talked to her mother last week and the pain has never come back and her skills have greatly improved. Best of all, she is having fun skating again.

The point of this story is not how great I am (although I like that part), it is how different the quality of footbeds and orthotics can be. It only depends on their maker, and often has little to do with how much you pay for them. Good luck.

Jeff