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Rossignol S7/S3 question

post #1 of 22
Thread Starter 

Hi,

 

I own a pair of 2012 Rossi S7 178cm, which I love in powder, crud and on groomers.  I think the skis feel really surfy, fun and stable.  I wanted to get a second pair of skis to compliment the S7s; skis that were more oriented to the other days, i.e. hardpack, bumps, etc.  I demoed the 2013 S3s 178cm on such a day and feel like I may have been too impulsive.  I think I might have been better off with a softer, snappier park/bump ski that could hold an edge on some hardpack, etc.  Also, many reviews tout the S3s as either A) Amazing all mountain skis or B) The perfect compliment to the S7s.  Honestly, IMHO, I don't feel that either of those statements hold true.  I am thinking of buying some softer, quicker park/bump/ skis that can edge on some hardpack this summer when prices are lower and then selling the S3s (with like 3 days on them) in the fall when I can get the most money back.  Thoughts?  I guess I should mention that I am 45yo, 185lbs, advanced, aggressive skier, who skis mostly in North Idaho and less in Utah.

 

Thank you,

 

Paul

post #2 of 22

So you own both the 178 S7 and the 178 S3 and want to get rid of the S3 for a better all-mountain ski for firm conditions?  

 

That make sense to me, but want to make sure the facts are right.

post #3 of 22
Thread Starter 
Yes, correct.
post #4 of 22

you are going to be hard pressed to find anything much softer... the S3 is a noodle. Good news is there are dozens of skis that are snappier, better park/bump skis that hold an edge on hardpack. Faction's Prodigy and Soma are two of the very best.

post #5 of 22

There are a lot of great upper 90mm wide skis that will fit your desires. I agree with Whiteroom, you are not going to find too many skis much softer than the S3. Since you are looking for leftovers, you are looking for popular skis in popular sizes and that usually limits your options in the leftover racks.

 

Skis that come to mind...

Head Rev 90

Salomon Rocker2 90

Volkl Kink

 

are three bargain priced skis that were't too popular than you miiight be still able to find leftover. 

post #6 of 22

I agree with Phil's Volkl Kink recommendation for the criteria listed above. I got some vertical on a pair when my nephew bought them last spring. At a very attractive price, I might add.

post #7 of 22

Get rid of your S3's!   I've skied them a bunch this year and they are a nice soft snow ski, but stink on firm snow.   I'm about your weight and the 178 S3 is the worst ski at speed I've been on for hardpack in years.   The 186 S3 is better and more appropriate for your weight, but far from a fun cruising ski... more like an acceptable ski to get back to the lift so you can hunt for more powder.  

 

I'd suggest you challenge your assumption you want a softer ski.  As other have said the S3 is super soft, too soft IMO to be a good firm snow ski at speed.  The softness combines with the extreme rocker to makes it even worse.

 

You've got some great suggestions above.  I'd add the Volkl Bridge to the list.  Also, the new Rossi Sin 7 that replaces the S3 is supposed to be better on firm snow as they've try to address the S3's issues.  Neither of those will be super cheap, though.   Another idea... if you can skip the twin tip for this pair, a Volkl Kendo, Rossi E88 or any of the many good 88's would be perfect.

 

A cheapo ski that might, possibly work for you is the Rossi Smash 7.  There aren't many reviews out there since it's the intermediate, entry level ski into the Rossi 7 line, but the few reviews I've seen suggest it skis above its price point.  I'm going to try to demo some this year, as it might fit the mold of a softer, cheaper, disposable bump ski for me.

 

Has anyone been on a Rossi Smash 7 that can comment?

post #8 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by tball View Post

Get rid of your S3's!   I've skied them a bunch this year and they are a nice soft snow ski, but stink on firm snow.   I'm about your weight and the 178 S3 is the worst ski at speed I've been on for hardpack in years.   The 186 S3 is better and more appropriate for your weight, but far from a fun cruising ski... more like an acceptable ski to get back to the lift so you can hunt for more powder.  

 

I'd suggest you challenge your assumption you want a softer ski.  As other have said the S3 is super soft, too soft IMO to be a good firm snow ski at speed.  The softness combines with the extreme rocker to makes it even worse.

 

You've got some great suggestions above.  I'd add the Volkl Bridge to the list.  Also, the new Rossi Sin 7 that replaces the S3 is supposed to be better on firm snow as they've try to address the S3's issues.  Neither of those will be super cheap, though.   Another idea... if you can skip the twin tip for this pair, a Volkl Kendo, Rossi E88 or any of the many good 88's would be perfect.

 

A cheapo ski that might, possibly work for you is the Rossi Smash 7.  There aren't many reviews out there since it's the intermediate, entry level ski into the Rossi 7 line, but the few reviews I've seen suggest it skis above its price point.  I'm going to try to demo some this year, as it might fit the mold of a softer, cheaper, disposable bump ski for me.

 

Has anyone been on a Rossi Smash 7 that can comment?

If we are getting into next years skis..Scott's The Ski would be my top suggestion and the ski that I will be using for that spot in my quiver. 

post #9 of 22
Thread Starter 

Thanks for the advice all.  I guess I have a few follow up questions.  I do not know a lot about ski mechanics but why is it when I am on my S7s, they feel so "surfy", i.e. they feel fully rockered underfoot, they just surf side to side, which I like but on my S3s, they feel to "catch" and the only way to really turn the ski is to drive it, i.e. pressure the outside ski and go light on the inside ski?  This is how they feel to me.  Am I doing something wrong?  Also, I was of the opinion that good recreational bump skis should be soft but maybe that is my old school thinking.  So these skis are soft but since I feel like I have to drive them as described above, it is hard to make real quick snappy turns in the bumps and they feel sluggish and catchy in the bumps or really anywhere else for that matter.  So I seem to be skiing them like a GS ski, which is not what I want but what I feel like my style with these skis adapted to.  They seem to get rave reviews online but I am not raving about them.

post #10 of 22

you are too heavy for the S3. simple as that.
 

post #11 of 22

I'm a fan of the S3, and I'm feeling a bit like they need someone in their corner.  A few points:

 

  • You're certainly not too heavy for the S3s, although it depends on what you want them to do for you.
  • They're not a burly ski by any stretch of the imagination, and they're certainly not the right tool for charging into a steep field of cut up, heavy snow (they simply won't bust through it).
  • They''ll happily hold an edge on hardpack depending on how you go about it.
  • They don't 'stink' on firm snow, although they're nowhere near their best in those conditions.
  • They're not supposed to feel the same as a narrower S7; they have a different design, particularly in the tail.
  • The 178 S3 actually has a tad more running length than the 186 version (due to the extent of the rocker at tip and tail on the longer skis).

 

The S3 was always designed a little differently to the S7 - it has a tail.  The S7 has a lot of taper from tip to tail, and allows the skier to slash, 'slarve', slide and generally throw the tail sideways.  The S3 was designed with a tail that can more easily 'hook up' and the tail stays hooked up throughout the turn.  The widest part of the tail is beyond the contact point of the rocker and, as you lay them over, the tail stays engaged.  The tail on the S7 has a different design brief.  This review (with images) shows it a lot better than I can describe it.

 

http://blistergearreview.com/gear-reviews/2011-2012-rossignol-s3-186cm

 

Rossi has the new Sin7 coming out, and that ski looks a bit more like a smaller S7.  I've not been on them, so I'll hold my opinion til I have a chance to give them a run (hopefully in late July). 

 

Best of luck.


Edited by sinbad7 - 6/30/13 at 5:14am
post #12 of 22

Just picked up a set of S3's used.  Going to them from a set of Nordica Hot Rod's.  First set of rockered skis should be an interesting winter.  I ski Breck, Vail, A Basin, Keystone and Beaver Creek.  Cant wait for snow!

post #13 of 22

Congrats on the choice, the S3 is a great one. Regarding your demo catching, that sounds to me like a bad tune. It would be wise for you to get yours tuned before you ski them, by a shop that knows what they are doing. Have the side bevel tuned to 3 degrees and they will hold on hard snow just fine. Skiing a poorly tuned ski is like driving a Corvette with flat tires.

post #14 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by JW MN View Post

Congrats on the choice, the S3 is a great one. Regarding your demo catching, that sounds to me like a bad tune. It would be wise for you to get yours tuned before you ski them, by a shop that knows what they are doing. Have the side bevel tuned to 3 degrees and they will hold on hard snow just fine. Skiing a poorly tuned ski is like driving a Corvette with flat tires.

 

Why in the world would you put a 3 degree side bevel on an S3?  It is not a carving ski, not intended to be a carving ski, and will never be a carving ski.  Chris skis the Colorado Rockies and in a normal snow year the S3 is a great everyday ski.  He has a pair of Nordicas that are more appropriate for firm snow days.  I ski the S3 only in soft snow, what it was designed for, and the factory recommended 1 degree side is perfect.  

post #15 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJB View Post

 

Why in the world would you put a 3 degree side bevel on an S3?  It is not a carving ski, not intended to be a carving ski, and will never be a carving ski.  Chris skis the Colorado Rockies and in a normal snow year the S3 is a great everyday ski.  He has a pair of Nordicas that are more appropriate for firm snow days.  I ski the S3 only in soft snow, what it was designed for, and the factory recommended 1 degree side is perfect.  

A 3 degree side does not matter in soft snow, however, can be very useful on an icy chute. The S3 can carve tight arcs if you have the ability.

post #16 of 22

I ski the Midwest and am lucky enough to get to ski Steamboat about 4 weeks a year. I have learned over the years that most of the local Steamboat skiers, and shops, don't think one needs sharp edges. Because they only ski on powder days. If the snow is hard, they find something else to do. When I am there, I ski whatever is out there.  There are plenty of times when one encounters hard snow or occasional ice on the runs at Steamboat, or most any mountain. Off piste can be soft but back on a run can be groomed and hard.  Having a 3 degree side bevel will allow the ski to bite into that stuff and make it fun to ski in those conditions as well. 3 degrees won't harm soft or powder snow skiing, it just makes it more versatile.  If the S3 is tipped over so the entire edge is contacting the snow -tip to tail- and the edges are sharp, they will carve trenches in most snow.  At least mine do.

 I agree that if you know the snow is really hard and is going to stay that way, a stiffer ski is the way to go.

post #17 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by JW MN View Post

I ski the Midwest and am lucky enough to get to ski Steamboat about 4 weeks a year. I have learned over the years that most of the local Steamboat skiers, and shops, don't think one needs sharp edges. Because they only ski on powder days. If the snow is hard, they find something else to do. When I am there, I ski whatever is out there.  There are plenty of times when one encounters hard snow or occasional ice on the runs at Steamboat, or most any mountain. Off piste can be soft but back on a run can be groomed and hard. 

 

Yeah, that pretty much applies to me and most local Colorado skiers I know, at least folks who spend time mostly off-piste.  The one difference is I don't think we just ski on powder days (there are not enough!), we just find other ways back to the lift through the trees that don't require edges.  

 

Folks from the east coast would be shocked how little many of us care about our edges.  I'm a little ashamed to admit it, but my tuning MO for decades has been to take my skis to the shop once a year in January when most the rocks are covered up.  In a good snow year I'll likely forget unless I've done enough damage I feel something dragging.  

 

I do notice and appreciate a good tune.  I ski demos a lot and cruising is much more fun on icy conditions with a good tune.  Shops are pretty good about keeping demos tuned.  I just avoid ice whenever possible, which is most of the time.  
post #18 of 22
I picked up a set of Rocker2 92's 179cm with Salomon STH 12's (307 BSL) mounted 2cm behind center for all mountain and will probably sell them as not quite what I Want. Ping me if you want to talk as price was/is right and they seem to be a fit for you.
post #19 of 22

I own the S-3 .  I love the ski.  It is a great ski for what it does - very fun in soft snow - but there are much better skis out there for firm snow days.

 

I also think you shouldn't be afraid of dropping to something skinner underfoot, say something 85-90.  that will work better on the hardpack and bumps.

post #20 of 22

I  have a few days on my S3's so far this year.  I really like them.  Seems like they will be a good Colorado ski.

post #21 of 22

SpaceRacer,  the good news is that there are a ton of excellent skis out there to meet your needs.  The S3 is a terrific ski, but from the sounds of it you're not happy with its frontside carving ability -- am I wrong?  For all mtn soft snow the S3 should easily meet your needs.  I owned and skied all the Rossi variants leading to the S3 and loved them all.  Now I own the S7 for pow and a Rossi carving ski for the groomer only days (80 TI).

 

If you're looking for something more solid on the groomers, then look for a stiffer ski, possibly with a narrower waist.  The Rossi Experience 88 is softer than its big brother the Exp 98, but is great all around.  The Fischer Big Stix 98 can be found at great prices since it has been replaced with the Big Stix 100 (check online at Second Track Sports here in Utah -- $299 flat!).  I ski an Atomic Ritual on most days (103mm underfoot) which is surprisingly good on the groomers, so I imagine its narrower brothers the Atomic Alibi and the Theory are, too.  Overall, if you want to carve you don't need a softer ski, you need a stiffer ski that can stand up to the hardpack.

 

I know it's all confusing, but your S7s are great for soft snow and powder days.  For days it's not like that, then the S3 are great, but if you want more of an on piste carver, then look at a stiffer ski to meet your needs.

 

Ski hard and have fun!

 

T. - wasatchreport.com

post #22 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by tball View Post
 

Get rid of your S3's!   I've skied them a bunch this year and they are a nice soft snow ski, but stink on firm snow.   I'm about your weight and the 178 S3 is the worst ski at speed I've been on for hardpack in years.   The 186 S3 is better and more appropriate for your weight, but far from a fun cruising ski... more like an acceptable ski to get back to the lift so you can hunt for more powder.  

I'd suggest you challenge your assumption you want a softer ski.  As other have said the S3 is super soft, too soft IMO to be a good firm snow ski at speed.  The softness combines with the extreme rocker to makes it even worse.

 

You've got some great suggestions above.  I'd add the Volkl Bridge to the list.  Also, the new Rossi Sin 7 that replaces the S3 is supposed to be better on firm snow as they've try to address the S3's issues.  Neither of those will be super cheap, though.   Another idea... if you can skip the twin tip for this pair, a Volkl Kendo, Rossi E88 or any of the many good 88's would be perfec

 

A cheapo ski that might, possibly work for you is the Rossi Smash 7.  There aren't many reviews out there since it's the intermediate, entry level ski into the Rossi 7 line, but the few reviews I've seen suggest it skis above its price point.  I'm going to try to demo some this year, as it might fit the mold of a softer, cheaper, disposable bump ski for me.

 

Has anyone been on a Rossi Smash 7 that can comment?

If you weight about 185 it might not be enough ski even at the 180 cm.     I have been using the Rossi Sassy7  in 150cm which appears to be the Smash7 in a shorter pink topsheet. It  seems  stable, works  on hard pack ,  and a bit soft but not by any means super soft or squirrely compared to some of the  women and kids skis. It is an excellent ski for the price I paid . I'm a real  light weight  lady so my ski selection is limited.. .   Have not tried it in bumps yet (too early in season for bumps in my area) but it seems like it would be fun.  But it seems to ski fairly short in  soft snow  and at speed so I am thinking about getting a 160 -170 cm Smash 7 or  158 S3 for soft snow conditons.  I recall that the Smash 7's longest size is about a 180 so it might be a bit short   for the average size adult guy because  the Smash is made for light weight "tweenagers".   You may enjoy the ski for limited use for bumps in the right conditions but you need something to ski in soft snow to and from the bumps . It might be a fun ski for you to demo for a few runs.

 

 .I too am curious how a Smash7 skis compared to an S3 especially someone who has the opportunity to try them in same length. 

  The S3 may be available for me to demo in a 168 which is a bit too long but might try it before ordering the Smash7 in a 160 which I  can get at a great price.

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