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Pure powder ski suggestion

post #1 of 28
Thread Starter 

What would the collective intelligence here recommend as a ski to heli & cat ski in Canadian Rockies and take on the truly bottomless Utah resort days (before it is skied out)?

 

What this ski does not have to do AT ALL:

 

  • ski on groomed runs
  • traverse
  • ski on icy slopes
  • ski crud
  • charge big AK type slopes

 

This ski DOES have to do ski trees, glades & pillows in deep snow.  Probably less of a charger and a bit more manageable in tight spots.

 

I am thinking:

 

DPS Lotus 120 or 138 or Spoon

ON3P Cease and Desist

Armada Bubba

Ski Logic Rockstar

Moment Bibby

Kastle BMX128

Volkl Kuro

post #2 of 28

Even though I've never tried I know someone will come and tell you to look at the Praxis Powderboards! :-) From my limited experience I would add the Atomic Bent Chetler, it's a pretty awesome ski and good in tight spots, very jib and can take a beating! The Bibby is pretty stiff for a powder ski, more like a powder charger! Never tried any of the others...

post #3 of 28
Thread Starter 

FWIW, I have the DPS 112, just thinking about something wider and more specialized.

post #4 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by mfa81 View Post

Even though I've never tried I know someone will come and tell you to look at the Praxis Powderboards! :-) 

 

Yup, I will wink.gif

 

You did not give any size info. Nor did you talk about style - charger? Jibby? etc.

 

For basic awesome powder skiing  - for my .02, the PBs should be on any short list of answers for this kind of question. If I really think I'm getting untracked without a ton of ridge top crap or tracks below - this is my choice for sure (see my review on this site). There was some discussion on TGR or here about these vs the 138s (which are also awesome). I think the conclusion as framed by MO is that the 138 has a more of a big open fall line bias and the PB a bit less of that. Anyway, if you already have 112s, these two should be high on your list as they are a decent step more into the pure powder realm. My impression of the Spoon is that it may be even more of a big open spaces ski. But maybe Marshall will jump in...

 

All that said, in my experience, even heli skiing often subjects you to icy ridges, traverses, etc. If I think I'm getting into that, the Praxis Protest is choice #1 for me. A nice split of powder orientation with a bit more aplomb in icy crap.

 

If you are more jibby, the Bent Chetler and Rocker 2 122a are worth a look. As might be the Elan Boomerang TBT (which impressed me in a demo - but sadly with no deep powder to play in).

 

While I have not used it, the Bubba looks interesting. I've seen the ON3P Pillow Fight on the snow & that is likely worth consideration. Happily and sadly - you have choices. Way more than a couple years ago.

 

I used to be a huge Kuro fan, but IMO there are better options out there today. I have not looked at the latest Kastle specs recently, but last I looked, even their big powder skis had pretty flat tails. While I do not think you need truly massive tail rocker, IMO having a decent bit of it is a huge win for that you are describing.

 

FWIW - the Praxis pre-season sale is on for another 2 days. Customized Powder Boards for under 600 bucks to your door (using coupon Epic or any of the other usual ones for 10%) is freaking nuts. 


Edited by spindrift - 6/25/13 at 6:30pm
post #5 of 28

DPS  Lotus 138

DPS  Lotus 120

DPS 112 RPC which is really a 115 and nothing even close to a 112RP imo

 

Praxis Powder Boards

Praxis Protest

 

I was where your are at, on a 112 a few seasons ago.

 

138s are spot on for what you are asking.

 

I think the RPC is more fun than the 120 for trees, ect.  may be the 138 as well.  As Marshal Olson described it, "the RPC is a 138 with side cut".   For what you are asking I ended up on the 187cm  Protest dropping some length from my 192cm 138s.   192cm RPC as well.  Amazing ski imo.

 

If I was in total agreement on our requirements it would be a Praxis PB or the 138.   But I've spent enough time on helos in the Rockies to want the Protest or the RPC instead.  

post #6 of 28

The Surface Lab 001 is a less expensive Spoon alternative that I've had my eye on. Second the PB as well. Own it. Love it.

post #7 of 28
post #8 of 28

I forgot to note that the Elan Boomerang TBT is also a hull design - except the "spooning" is both front and back. And it runs basically to the boot zone. If you look at the design, it is pretty clear that its mission is not exactly the same as a Spoon though.

 

Oh - and I think the ON3P Pillow Fight has a hull type base as well - to one degree or another...

post #9 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by nwjg View Post

What would the collective intelligence here recommend as a ski to heli & cat ski in Canadian Rockies and take on the truly bottomless Utah resort days (before it is skied out)?

 

What this ski does not have to do AT ALL:

 

  • ski on groomed runs
  • traverse
  • ski on icy slopes
  • ski crud
  • charge big AK type slopes

 

This ski DOES have to do ski trees, glades & pillows in deep snow.  Probably less of a charger and a bit more manageable in tight spots.

 

I am thinking:

 

DPS Lotus 120 or 138 or Spoon

ON3P Cease and Desist

Armada Bubba

Ski Logic Rockstar

Moment Bibby

Kastle BMX128

Volkl Kuro


Any reverse camber/reverse side cut ski should be a blast for what you want and do not need.  I had Praxis Powder Boards and loved them in deep pow.  Bad news was I did need them to work in the resort too, so I sold them and bought Lhasa Pows.  Not the same powder performance, but better all around in the resort. I can not imagine a more nimble ski in deep pow than a 191 Praxis Powder Board.

post #10 of 28

I'm seriously jealous of anyone who needs the boards discussed in this thread, and all of you who have skied enough of them to have opinions on multiple skis.   It's not easy to get that many powder days... congratulations!

 

Ya'll remind me of a guy I met on a snowcat tour once.  He took the last spot on a private cat a bunch of friends rented as our big trip for the year.  This guy retired young and does a heli or cat trip every week throughout the winter, trying to pick the best pow to be found that week.  Our snow was so good he talked his way onto the last spot on our private cat after being out the day before.  He was a great guy with a powder resume I can only dream of achieving some day (along with his quiver of powder boards).  In the mean time my 110+ boards will continue to be demos, if I'm lucky enough to need them.

post #11 of 28

Do some homework at Blister.

 

Are you planning on using them to go up as well? Or just down?

 

I think Praxis is making some seriously sweet skis.

post #12 of 28

"recommend a ski to heli & cat ski in Canadian Rockies and take on the truly bottomless Utah resort days"

 

Just a thought.  Even the bad heli and cat days will make a good (traditional?) R/R ski really fun.  Deep dish and Spoon technolgy may be even more fun.

 

But never seen  a resort that ran a groomer have snow that I wanted a R/R ski on for the entire day.  As much fun as a R/R ski is from stash to stash, you have to get back to the lifts at some point.  Which for me anyway would almost (not quite) wreck a perfectly good day of skiing  that would  have been (and eventually was) saved on just a slightly less playful board.

 

That said everyone should own a R/R ski at least once (or twice) and decide for yourself.   Or let your knees do it for you hopmad.gif

post #13 of 28

I've never had any issues on packed-powder groomers on a R/R. Because of their looseness and control,  they are the best tool for exploiting all the little left-over pockets of powder. The only issues I've had are with unexpected sections that have been wind-scraped down to ice. If you get into the back-seat, there is no tail to rescue you.

post #14 of 28

Here's an option (cheap) in GearSwap right now: http://www.epicski.com/t/117036/praxis-bps-193-powder-ski-250

 

The unique design gives the benefit of the full R/R underfoot, while still being practical for those less than perfect days (any crust too) and chopped up afternoons.

 

Unless you are a bigger guy it's probably not the most manageable option in tight spots... but if you are only skiing powder days it gets around just fine.

post #15 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane View Post

But never seen  a resort that ran a groomer have snow that I wanted a R/R ski on for the entire day.  As much fun as a R/R ski is from stash to stash, you have to get back to the lifts at some point.  Which for me anyway would almost (not quite) wreck a perfectly good day of skiing  that would  have been (and eventually was) saved on just a slightly less playful board.

 

Silver Mt will only groom 1 or 2 runs on days over 16 inches new. Full R/R works great on these days (except for the traversing).

post #16 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by spknmike View Post

 

Silver Mt will only groom 1 or 2 runs on days over 16 inches new. Full R/R works great on these days (except for the traversing).

 

Hi Mike!

 

Silver was exactly what I was thinking of when I wrote that. 

 

Good to know they groom so little.  Laps off Warner and down Shaft this Spring was why I decided I wanted a different ski than my DPS 138s.  Silver likely does less grooming than even Alpental for the area involved.  All it takes is the "run outs" to be groomed to make one rethink a R/R ski.  Or at least for me to rethink a a R/R ski.  

 

For me the transitions are unpleasant enough to rethink ski choices.    

 

Funny, on the last run off Warner this April my buddy introduced me to the current Pro Patrol.  They commented that my 138s were the first he'd ever seen at Silver.

 

On a good storm day where tracks were filling in on a soft snow base and only groomed the days previous, top of Warner (16:1) down Gold (Last Chance)  was almost wonderful.  Last bit cutting across groomed snow to Shaft wasn't all that great.  The last half of the hill below the Assay Rd on Shaft wasn't all that pleasant.   Shaft was incredible, out running the sluff in new snow every run, tight left.  Warner was deep and wind effected.   Both places where the DPS 138s shine.

 

I had the advantage of the 138 while my partner (a better skier than I) was on 95mm under foot.  Laps down Kellogg's North glenns and finishing on the lower bit of Centennial just reinforced the fact that the 138s were out of their element.  At least enough out of their element that I  had wished for a different ski on half the mountain.  Skied them many times here at Crystal and on the upper half of Alpental and never had a similar thought.

 

But then I bought my 138s with Silver in mind.  Which was specifically hiking Warner, then skiing 16:1 via the Shaft to the bottom of chair 4 yoyos. 

 

For that particular day mentioned I think a 112RP or some of my other skis of similar width would have been a much better choice.  Gain 50% on the groomed snow and loose 10% or less in the soft snow would be my take.

 

Just my observation on one day of exceptional skiing and having a good size quiver to choose from.  Sitting here at my desk  rethinking the day I am still undecided.  Of the top of Warner and the half dozen turns into the top of Shaft hard to fault the 138s...pretty amazing ski really.   On the rest of the mountain and may be those same conditons the Huascaran, RPC or GPO would have been better choices for me I think.  For the majority of laps on Kellogg's N Glenn and down there are better skis than the 138s imo..

 

All that said having skied the 138s there and with a pair of new Protests sitting here in my office.  More snow than that day and I would take the Protests now. 

 

The flip side of that is my buddy Jerry hammered me all day long on his 125/95/115mm ski.  The advantage only went to me in those two small places.  Even in the Pure version with tech bindings there was no advantage on the boot pack.

 

R/R skis are really fun.  But to be honest I have to admit to the fact that I prefer other skis 99% of the time after spending some time on R/R.   No heli ski trips planned at the moment.  Chamonix again this winter hopefully.  Praxis PBs are still tempting me though.  Hopefully Keith won't find a unused pile of long PBs for the next Monday morning fire sale!  If he does I am doomed eek.gif


Edited by Dane - 6/26/13 at 3:55pm
post #17 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane View Post

 

Hi Mike!

 

Silver was exactly what I was thinking of when I wrote that. 

 

Good to know they groom so little.  Laps off Warner and down Shaft this Spring was why I decided I wanted a different ski than my DPS 138s.  Silver likely does less grooming than even Alpental for the area involved.  All it takes is the "run outs" to be groomed to make one rethink a R/R ski.  Or at least for me to rethink a a R/R ski.  

 

For me the transitions are unpleasant enough to rethink ski choices.    

 

Funny, on the last run off Warner this April my buddy introduced me to the current Pro Patrol.  They commented that my 138s were the first he'd ever seen at Silver.

 

On a good storm day where tracks were filling in on a soft snow base and only groomed the days previous, top of Warner (16:1) down Gold (Last Chance)  was almost wonderful.  Last bit cutting across groomed snow to Shaft wasn't all that great.  The last half of the hill below the Assay Rd on Shaft wasn't all that pleasant.   Shaft was incredible, out running the sluff in new snow every run, tight left.  Warner was deep and wind effected.   Both places where the DPS 138s shine.

 

I had the advantage of the 138 while my partner (a better skier than I) was on 95mm under foot.  Laps down Kellogg's North glenns and finishing on the lower bit of Centennial just reinforced the fact that the 138s were out of their element.  At least enough out of their element that I  had wished for a different ski on half the mountain.  Skied them many times here at Crystal and on the upper half of Alpental and never had a similar thought.

 

But then I bought my 138s with Silver in mind.  Which was specifically hiking Warner, then skiing 16:1 via the Shaft to the bottom of chair 4 yoyos. 

 

For that particular day mentioned I think a 112RP or some of my other skis of similar width would have been a much better choice.  Gain 50% on the groomed snow and loose 10% or less in the soft snow would be my take.

 

Just my observation on one day of exceptional skiing and having a good size quiver to choose from.  Sitting here at my desk  rethinking the day I am still undecided.  Of the top of Warner and the half dozen turns into the top of Shaft hard to fault the 138s...pretty amazing ski really.   On the rest of the mountain and may be those same conditons the Huascaran, RPC or GPO would have been better choices for me I think.  For the majority of laps on Kellogg's N Glenn and down there are better skis than the 138s imo..

 

All that said having skied the 138s there and with a pair of new Protests sitting here in my office.  More snow than that day and I would take the Protests now. 

 

The flip side of that is my buddy Jerry hammered me all day long on his 125/95/115mm ski.  The advantage only went to me in those two small places.  Even in the Pure version with tech bindings there was no advantage on the boot pack.

 

R/R skis are really fun.  But to be honest I have to admit to the fact that I prefer other skis 99% of the time after spending some time on R/R.   No heli ski trips planned at the moment.  Chamonix again this winter hopefully.  Praxis PBs are still tempting me though.  Hopefully Keith won't find a unused pile of long PBs for the next Monday morning fire sale!  If he does I am doomed eek.gif

 

All good points.

 

The more I think of it, I do need to be pretty creative when I'm on my R/R (Powderboards) to avoid some of those pitfalls you speak of. I still love to get on them as much as I can when conditions are right (talking single digit days a season), and once you know a mountain well enough you can get pretty high on the percentage of fresh lines down. In better snow years there's a few ways to avoid Shaft after its bumped out, and honestly sometimes the hike back up the old access road is the best option. 

 

If you want on the PB's and are close to my BSL you can take them for a spin next winter. They're the generation before the current design and will always have a place in my quiver.

 

Plenty of people on DPS up at Schweitzer, there's a rep that skis there.


Edited by spknmike - 6/26/13 at 4:19pm
post #18 of 28

Ha, Ha!  That made me chuckle!beercheer.gif

There use to be a pump house we needed to play with on a regular basis at the bottom of Shaft just off the Assay road.  One way to get there was ski in and walk out.  BITD when the lift was down it was just easier to walk in and out via Shaft.   Which we (they) did a lot.

 

No way in hell I am ever walking out of there intentionally, again biggrin.gif  I'm thinking skiing off the south side of Kellogg and skinning out is a better answer and a more fun line.

 

Thanks for the offer for a demo on your PBs!   Sadly on any day it would really be worth it I suspect we'd both rather be getting the face shots on what ever we brought up!    I'm going to really try hard to hit Silver's biggest powder days this year though.  Are you skiing Dynafit bindings?

 

R/Rs=devil.gifski

post #19 of 28
Quote:

 

I used to be a huge Kuro fan, but IMO there are better options out there today.

so like what ?

 

I like the kuros alot but am in the market for new skis :)  :)

post #20 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by stefan1 View Post
so like what ?

I like the kuros alot but am in the market for new skis :)  :)

 

I believed he already suggested Praxis, Praxis  and I am  pretty sure if not Praxis,  he did mention  P yahoo.gifraxis.  duel.gifPB and  Protest  to  repeat Spindrift yahoo.gif  I would add a two ski DPS quiver from MO's suggestion,  RPC and the full on SPOON.   Not the 138 mind you but the SPOON.

 

 

The SPOON is also the ski we haven't mentioned yet.  Guess if I was going to buy a full on  pow ski again it would be the SPOON,  and not the 120 or 138 versions with spoon technology added.   Easy enough to get rid of if you decide you don't like them.

post #21 of 28

I'd look at PB or Lotus 138 if you want to go super fat, and mainly interested in big, fast, surfy turns. I'm guessing these would work better for you in the big open spaces.

 

Or Bent Chetler or R2 122 if you want fat, surfy, playful jibby. I'm guessing these will be better for you in the trees. These will also be fun on big resort powder days (though you don't need them for that). 

post #22 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by stefan1 View Post

so like what ?

 

I like the kuros alot but am in the market for new skis :)  :)

 

Haha - Dane pretty much nailed it. If you look at my earlier post up-thread, it is laid out pretty simply. I'd go with any of those before the Kuro today. It is just a different world than when the Kuro came out. Lots more well thought out options available today. That's why I sold off my Kuros. Not that I'd shoot myself if I had to ski Kuros - still a fun and capable ski. But as Dane so humorously noted, I'd take either a PB or a Protest as a first choice ahead of the Kuro. Likewise the DPS options. And many others...  

post #23 of 28

The Grace Kylie looks to be worth a look as well.  I am learning a lot about what is out there for full R/R ski from these threads.  As well as skis more like the Soul/Squad, RP/RPC and Protest.

 

http://www.skigrace.com/grace-skis-kylie.php

 

With no R/R ski in the quiver right now the summer prices are looking really enticing an several full on r/r ski.

post #24 of 28

Honestly the amount of pow ski's out there that transition from hard charging to floaty slarvers makes the idea of a full R/R so niche that I can't even think about adding one.

post #25 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by nwjg View Post
What this ski does not have to do AT ALL:

 

  • traverse
  • ski on icy slopes
  • charge big AK type slopes

 

This ski DOES have to do ski trees, glades & pillows in deep snow.  Probably less of a charger and a bit more manageable in tight spots.

 

Still mulling over the R/R powder specific idea and what you wanted a ski to be able to  do..

More skis always mo' better imo.  So not suggesting to ditch the R/R ski.  But maybe several additional skis to try out/own.

 

I suspect you would be hard pressed to find a better ski for your intended use than the 112RP.   Most of the ski past 120mm under foot are going to be best used as big mtn chargers I'd bet.  DPS 120 and 138 are.  Spoon is as well.   Praxis PB?   May be a little less so.   I rethought  my own use of the DP 138s in a 192cm ski and bought a pair of 187 Praxis Protests to replace them.  Hopefully a little less specialized and a little less effort in all conditions than the 138s.

 

Trees, glades and pillows specifically and not @ full throttle but just a bit below?   I really like my 177cm Dynafit Huascarans there for a simply playful, do anything ski and a lwt TLT P boot.  Same ski in a 188 and a bigger boot might be just as much fun.  The 196 is a big mtn charger for sure more akin to a DPS 120 imo.   But I KNOW how much fun the 177s are.  I'm 61" and 190# btw.  Shorty Huascarans were a huge surprise and continue to be a great pleasure for me as a spring mtneering ski as well..

post #26 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by nwjg View Post

 

 

This ski DOES have to do ski trees, glades & pillows in deep snow.  Probably less of a charger and a bit more manageable in tight spots.

 

 

 

 

Dude if you want to go nimble and it's only going to be skiing pow, I'd be on the phone ordering a pair of the Billy Goat Tours or hybrid Praxis POWs so fast it would blow your mind.  

post #27 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Do Work View Post

 

 

Dude if you want to go nimble and it's only going to be skiing pow, I'd be on the phone ordering a pair of the Billy Goat Tours or hybrid Praxis POWs so fast it would blow your mind.  

Obviously my vote is the Billygoat, the best part is that it WILL charge hard if you need it to. Maybe a little less with the tour layup. But my 200lbs likes the standard layup for mashing the cascade concrete.

 

FWIW I'm sizing down from 191 to 186 this season. Just to try it out. I don't think I'll lose/gain much either way, but I wanted to check it out.

post #28 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecimmortal View Post

Honestly the amount of pow ski's out there that transition from hard charging to floaty slarvers makes the idea of a full R/R so niche that I can't even think about adding one.

 

I feel the same.

 

Anyway, another for the list: 4FRNT Renegade

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