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Rossi Soul 7 , DPS wailer 112 , grace kylie

post #1 of 16
Thread Starter 

5" 10", 200 lbs, fit, type 3 skier

although getting old (>50) I am not about pushing the athletic envelope anymore as much as savoring the form.

Looking to do some more deep powder this year (Big sky was awesome last year)

Currently on Blizzard 8.5 Ti - I loved the way they were responsive on groomers but also handled the crud and some powder . But I really enjoyed the floaty feeling I got from a pair of Armada TST I tried last year and am looking to get a pair of power powder tools. The armadas were commandeered by my son.

Since I am looking to do some touring as well, I probably will put AT bindings on them. 

And since my technica boots are old and heavy, my wallet is really going to get a spanking since I'll be opening and closing it a lot.

 

But back to the skis. I am going to try and be more of a ski bum with what remains of my life. I really liked how light the armadas were and with  AT in mind lighter is better. But I also like the control the blizzards gave me. Like a true austrian, those skis were  stiff and always made me feel 'in control'.

 

Since the soul 7 isn't even on Rossignol's website, I dont know how people are demoing them! There was a good review by someone in here comparing the Soul 7 and saying the DPS was the only thing close to it. (although the dps is twice the price) Are there any people here who have been on Grace skis and can comment on their 'feeling'?

post #2 of 16

If you are putting on a "touring binding" ie Duke/Barron/Guardian/Tracker ect, you will be adding weight. As far as the DPS being 2x the price of the Soul, not the case, completely. The DPS PURE's are around 1300 for the carbon construction but the Hybrid is around the price of the Soul. Either the 112 or the Soul will be good choices, I am not familiar with Grace skis. Between the Soul and the 112, I prefer the Soul do not so much to the construction but more to the shape of the skis, particularly the tail. Rossi did a very good job lowering the tail and adding more versatility to the ski. The other ski in that category I really like is the new Nordica Vagabond, a light versatile  big ski that is great in powder and mixed conditions. Nordica nailed it with this ski.                                                                                                                                                          

post #3 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post

If you are putting on a "touring binding" ie Duke/Barron/Guardian/Tracker ect, you will be adding weight.....

 

DPS Pure + tech binding would be less than 2kg per foot.  If not willing to go tech then Marker Tour is much lighter than Duke/Barron/Guardian/Tracker.  Just sayin.

post #4 of 16
Thread Starter 

yea, definitly thinking about a dynafit binding but cant really decide on which one. Their radical looks stout enough and half the weight of the salomon guardian.

post #5 of 16

I know you are looking at skis and that makes since.  But the whole tech binding thing means you should really decide how much weight you want to drop and what boot you want.  Ski are easy after that decisions.  Getting the right boot that will take a tech binding is more of a challenge I think.

 

Back to ski.  I have skied the 112RP a lot and the 112RPC last winter which I  think is a better ski.

 

From hand flexing them the Soul7 is much stiffer than the Squad7 which surprised me.

 

By flex (not sking them mind you) the Squad 7 is much closer to the 112RP than the Soul7 imo.

 

FWIW I'm generally skiing a 192cm 112RPC or now a new Praxis GPO with Radical Speeds and a Maestrale RS.  Having been on all the  new Dynafits I went back to the Speed version of the new Radical..   The Rossi Soul and Squad 7 are on a short list of ski I want to get on..    

post #6 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane View Post

From hand flexing them the Soul7 is much stiffer than the Squad7 which surprised me.

 

By flex (not sking them mind you) the Squad 7 is much closer to the 112RP than the Soul7 imo.

 

I haven't hand flexed any of them, but I'd be very surprised if the sidebounds/all mountain replacement for the S7 is actually stiffer than its flagship bombs-away sibling. Let alone much stiffer. Much stiffer than a Squad would put it in Bodacious territory, yet have not heard anything on the various youtube reviews about how I-beamish the Soul 7 is. Wondering if the new design of the S skis may not lend itself to reliable hand flexing. Or if a direct comparo of a 106 to a 120 can be misleading. th_dunno-1[1].gif

post #7 of 16

No one more surprised than me.  Had a friend  check them as well.  Same conclusion. Skis were in the shop at Crystal Mtn two weeks ago.  I'll be back there this next weekend  hopefully and take my DPS RPCs along just to verify that conclusion again with a side by side hand shake.

 

But no question from what what there..the yellow Soul 7 and the Blue Squad 7 the yellow Soul 7...all three pair of Soul 7s  were a LOT stiffer over all than the one pair of blue Zquad 7s.  Stiffer tip and tail on the Soul 7 than the blue Squad 7.

 

Just to make it even more annoying I'd put the Soul 7 in with the RPC and the Squad 7 with the RP as I mentioned previous.

 

Like I said makes no sense.  Just reporting what I saw and felt...and had double checked.

 

I had to wonder if that one pair of Squad 7s that was available wasn't simply a fluke ski?

post #8 of 16
I was also surprised by the stiff tip flex of the Soul 7 compared to the Wailer 112 Hybrid. Hand flexing it was similar to the Cochise and Billy Goat, IMHO. Should make for a good Pacific NW all-around ski, Maybe not a crud buster but at least get you through it to get to the good stuff.
post #9 of 16

Hmmm. OK, since it's late June, I'll lurch on. What part of the ski did you guys flex? I ask because I have a hunch the front core of the ski, behind where it anchors to a fairly rigid ABS resin composite honeycomb, may be deliberately softer, to absorb shock, then the ski might stiffen up again. Some Blizzards were made this way, incidentally, if you look at the flex charts; relatively stiff right at the front compared to other skis, then somewhat softer beginning 1/3 of the way back. So a flex profile that looks more like an elephant than a bell curve. One solution to handling crud and rough snow without making a ski into a plank. Goats used to have this pattern also back before they got rocker.

 

Or maybe the honeycomb is engineered to ski softer than it feels. I've noticed this quality in a number of skis; GS comes to mind. There may relate to the balance of torsional vs longitudinal stiffness.

 

Or maybe it's all about the still prominent rocker; higher rocker tends to allow stiffer skis without penalizing maneuverability, although grip can get sacrificed. Current Goats are like this. Unclear how the Soul 7's will do on hardpack. 

 

Just sayin' because Phil skied on these and said that the tip still flopped a bit, although that and the tail a big improvement over the S7. Talked to a guy at K-ton on a pair in April, decent snow, not icy, he said they were $$ in bumps and trees, not a quality I associate with stiff skis like the Cochise. And watched him ski on a groomer, observed some tip movement (as he carved nicely). Finally, owned a pair of 112RP's, not the stiffest longitudinal flex in front, but very rigid laterally, skied a lot stiffer on edge than it felt being bent by hand, or moving flat across crud. Following Sierra Jim, I've come to believe that it's the balance of longitudinal to lateral rigidity that gives a ski much of its character.

 

So overall, I believe what you're saying for sure, but yet the on-snow data don't point to a Cochise. Weird. 

 

But since I've never even touched a pair....my argument and a five will get you a vente latte at Starbucks. wink.gif


Edited by beyond - 6/25/13 at 8:31am
post #10 of 16

"What part of the ski did you guys flex?"

 

Dude, get serious popcorn.gif

 

I don't doubt the skiing experience of others.  Just wondered why the Squad 7 was so much softer than the Soul 7.  Seemed weird to me.

 

I really really like the 112RPC and would expect the Soul 7 to mimimic it on snow.  To the point that Rossi went for a yellow ski aka 112RP..

post #11 of 16

Other late June musings... why am I so excited to get on a pair of Soul 7's?    I can't recall a ski that I've been so jazzed up about that I haven't seen nor touched.   I think it's comments like these that get me so excited:

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by beyond View Post

Talked to a guy at K-ton on a pair in April, he said they were $$ in bumps and trees, not a quality I associate with stiff skis. (Speaking as a Cochise owner, too, not a ski that's super fun in tight bumpy places.) 

 

It seems like over the last decade wider and wider skis have been able to do things well that previously required a narrower ski.  Bumps and trees being a couple areas where we can now enjoy the benefits of wider skis where we previously couldn't.   I think I'm so excited because it sounds like the Soul 7 is a 106mm ski that keeps all the benefits 98mm ski but also has the benefit of the additional width for pow and crud.

 

Is my thinking off base?

post #12 of 16

106mm soul 7 Yellow

116mm super 7  Orange

120mm squad 7  Blue

 

I'm a big fan of 110+ skis and sorta skipped the 99/100+ skis after a season on them.

 

Might just be a NW thing.

post #13 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by tball View Post

Other late June musings... why am I so excited to get on a pair of Soul 7's?    I can't recall a ski that I've been so jazzed up about that I haven't seen nor touched.

It's the Matte Black and Yellow. And Matte Black and Soul. Winner. I am kind of serious wink.gif

If I am reading Phil correctly on this and other threads, he is favoring the Nordica Vagabond, and there seems to be about as much time around here to date on both. Seems a lot more people are itchin' on the Rossi...
post #14 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane View Post

"What part of the ski did you guys flex?"

 

Dude, get serious popcorn.gif

 

I don't doubt the skiing experience of others.  Just wondered why the Squad 7 was so much softer than the Soul 7.  Seemed weird to me.

 

I really really like the 112RPC and would expect the Soul 7 to mimimic it on snow.  To the point that Rossi went for a yellow ski aka 112RP..

Am serious, or as serious as we can be when it's in the mid-90's outside. I've seen people flex the tip of a ski, fingers on the top, palm down, and talk about its stiffness. I've also seen people flex the ski at midline, and a few at the tail. I actually tend to try 1/3 down from the tip, since that carries more info for me personally. Each position can yield very different results, since a flex pattern is never the same top to bottom, and rarely is symmetrical around the midline. And of course, hand flexing may or may not have much correlation to actual on-snow flex. So doesn't seem like a weird question, maybe I'm missing something that's blindingly obvious to you. Just trying to give you the benefit of the doubt, and still explain the mismatch between what you say and what everyone else says.

 

So one more time with feeling, if the Squad 7 is "so much softer" than the Soul 7, it appears to run counter to everything Rossignol has been putting out there about these skis, as well as their previous design and marketing philosophy for the S series, as well as every on-snow review of the new lineup. So again, don't think I'm the one who's being weird here because I'm questioning the interpretation of something you found that's an outlier. Not saying you're wrong as much as saying that the burden of proof is on you, not me, and it's quite a jump from hand flexing to making assumptions about how a ski will handle like another ski from another brand. 

 

But it's OK, I'll let go of the issue, and you can confidently go on here about how the new Rossi lineup has reversed stiffness, with the Squad the softest, and the Soul the stiffest. All good, and will look forward to your review in the winter. wink.gif

post #15 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by beyond View Post

it's quite a jump from hand flexing to making assumptions about how a ski will handle like another ski from another brand. 
Totally agree, there are so many other factors. But using your 1/3 from the tip flex test the Soul7 is longitudinally stiff. I thought the Soul7 would have tip flex similar to the Wailer 112RP, which from a hand flex perspectiveis really soft. Ok I am getting too wonky here. Time to stop screwing around, get my new 172cm Soul 7's mounted up and take them up to Timberline for a try.
post #16 of 16

" it's quite a jump from hand flexing to making assumptions about how a ski will handle like another ski from another brand."

 

Might be a jump for you.  Size of the jump depends on how many skis you see and ski each winter and just how much you are into the details.  One reason I made a point of flexing the skis and having a buddy also give me his impression from flexing the same skis while we had the chance..

 

Like everyone else until I get them on snow I am just guessing.  Till then I'll take the hand flex and the numbers Rossi offers and sing right along missing the harmony :) 

 

I know how a DPS 112RP and a DPS RPC skis and hand flex as a comparison.  I have no clue how the Soul 7 or Suqad 7 ski but do have a decent handle on how they compare in my hand and on paper.  Comparing ski shapes it is pretty obvious to me that the skis will more than likely be very similar on the snow for performance.  Rossi is no dumbie or trying to reinvent the DPS wheel.

 

141/112/128    RP

144/115/127    RPC

 

136/106/126   Soul 7 Yellow

140-116-130  Super 7 Orange

145-120-126   Squad 7 Blue

 

I have only offered my personal observation.  And as I said, it  seemed odd to me that the Squad is obvioulsy much softer than the Soul by a good bit.   Everyone starts some where  when looking to buy another pair of skis.  


Edited by Dane - 6/25/13 at 10:43pm
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