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Wildfires - 2013 - Page 14

post #391 of 407

Saw on CNN this morning a smoke jumper trainer died in a training accident due to a parachute malfunction I believe yesterday. 

post #392 of 407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trekchick View Post
 

The link only goes to the header page for me, but I appreciate the other links you've added along the way. 

 

Hmm, I checked and it gets the whole report for me.  Are you on a mobile?  I don't know if that would make a difference.  

 

If you're interested try this:
http://www.azcentral.com/ic/pdf/yarnell-hill-fire-report.pdf

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tylrwnzl View Post
 

Saw on CNN this morning a smoke jumper trainer died in a training accident due to a parachute malfunction I believe yesterday. 

 

It sucks.  


Edited by Bob Lee - 9/29/13 at 3:11pm
post #393 of 407
Thread Starter 

I'm hoping that this can be posted without this thread turning into a political hot bed, but I just saw a news report about the Rim Fire which is still burning, although its 92% contained. 

http://www.foxnews.com/science/2013/10/01/shutdown-may-hinder-california-rim-fire-cleanup/

 

Sadly, the current govt shut down is likely to have an impact on the continued efforts to finish containment and clean up. 

:(

post #394 of 407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trekchick View Post
 

I'm hoping that this can be posted without this thread turning into a political hot bed, but I just saw a news report about the Rim Fire which is still burning, although its 92% contained. 

http://www.foxnews.com/science/2013/10/01/shutdown-may-hinder-california-rim-fire-cleanup/

 

Sadly, the current govt shut down is likely to have an impact on the continued efforts to finish containment and clean up. 

:(

Can't you press-gang a few old useless senile guys who aren't doing much these days? Or pass this:

 

post #395 of 407
Thread Starter 

Local news reports Rim Fire is 100% contained 

http://www.ktvn.com/story/23792795/rim-fire-now-100-percent-contained

 

Its amazing how much it takes to contain a fire like this 100% 

post #396 of 407

Well, at least it missed Dodge Ridge. Without moisture, I guess these things burn for a while.  Come to think of it, where is the moisture?  We are getting close to November.

post #397 of 407

The Arizona OSHA fine assessed for some of the mistakes made in the case of the Yarnell fire is a good first step in addressing what happened there.  For a good, nonpolitical discussion of some of these issues, www.wildfiretoday.com       has provided excellent coverage.  The attempt on here to prevent reasoned discussion was quite unfortunate.  On a specific level, not only is honest discussion of mistakes made in accidents helpful as a general rule, but other things have already come to light in the case of the Yarnell fire that probably weren't best left shouted down and placed in a closet.  For instance, the Yarnell fire chief had, as an adult, already a firefighter, caused his girlfriend's daughter's head to smash into her crib hard enough that he thought she was dead -- so he drove her into the desert by the town dump, buried her while she was still alive, and claimed she was abducted.  When the cops got him to fess up several hours later, he led them to the girl and they dug her up, still breathing, only she died a day later.  That record of past attempted cover-up does not inspire confidence that he was going to do well in a position of trust in the future, particularly so in pressure situations. 

 

Also on a specific level, the claim that the outcome of the Yarnell fire means that defensible space doesn't work was highly misinformed.  The crew trapped in the Yarnell fire had left a safe area, and in fact the Boulder Springs Ranch, also identified as a safe zone as well because of its defensible space, withstood the fire well and the owners stayed in the main building as the fire passed.  It would be very unfortunate for someone to get the idea from this thread that defensible space doesn't work.

 

More generally, there is a tradition in outdoor sports as well of honest and frank discussion of accidents.  This includes climbing and mountaineering and, closer to home, avy fatalities. 

post #398 of 407
^Holy shit.
post #399 of 407

Has anone heard of military grade padding, about 1cm thick, that stops heat from vertical takeoff jets and jet-copters? The thought crossed my mind of building those (not so) fire-proof "sleeping bags" out of it. If there's nothing like in civilian land, I might bring some to the fire dept at Squaw to look at.

post #400 of 407
^Bulk and weight? Wildland firefighters like hotshots and smokejumpers already carry upwards of 40 pounds of gear, water and food up and down steep mountainous terrain, and still need to be able to move quickly.

The real issue of burnovers is usually compromised airways - the superheated gases sear airways and lungs, and ffs suffocate before the flesh burns can kill them. Air packs are too bulky, heavy, restrictive, and limited to be of use to crews out in the woods.
post #401 of 407

There are always fire trucks caught in bad places and the  hotshots carry their sleeping bags/rolls plus some type of heat repelling 'survival bag'. The product might double for both. I'm yet to feel its weight but it withstands a blow torch on the same spot for 20 minutes before a table under it shows any discolouration. I might make enquiries about bringing a sample over.

post #402 of 407

No - hotshots, jumpers, and anyone fighting a fire don't carry their sleeping bag while working on the fireline, and fire shelters are in small 4 pound cases:

 

Engines (fire trucks) themselves provide as much protection as your idea.  Like I said, the real problem isn't thermal, it's respiratory.  

 

http://www.google.com/search?q=fire+shelter

post #403 of 407
Quote:
Originally Posted by veteran View Post
 

Has anone heard of military grade padding, about 1cm thick, that stops heat from vertical takeoff jets and jet-copters? The thought crossed my mind of building those (not so) fire-proof "sleeping bags" out of it. If there's nothing like in civilian land, I might bring some to the fire dept at Squaw to look at.

http://magicvalley.com/news/local/fire-shelters-life-saver-or-death-trap/article_099be50e-6428-11e3-a388-001a4bcf887a.html

 

This is a good summary article on fire shelters from a small Idaho newspaper.  Canada has seen its fatality rates go down once they did away with fire shelters, so the risk management issues are not simply dependent on gear but on behavior as well.

 

One of the minor issues in the lawsuits arising out of the multiple mistakes made in the Yarnell fire may well be failure to train properly in the limitations of shelters and when deployments are survivable.  

post #404 of 407

The county commissioners for Lewis and Clark county in Montana ended the old year with a very good step in the right direction on defensible space, ruling that firefighters are not under an obligation to protect homes in WUI, and that it is the responsibility of homeowners to create sufficient defensible space around their properties.  Covered in  http://wildfiretoday.com/2013/12/30/some-montana-firefighters-no-longer-obligated-to-save-homes-from-wildfires/#comments , with the original article here, http://missoulian.com/news/local/lewis-and-clark-county-firefighters-no-longer-obligated-to-save/article_1c5f648a-7117-11e3-849d-0019bb2963f4.html .  In the words of Bill Gabbert, author/editor of www.wildfiretoday.com, "Placing the primary responsibility to protect a home from wildfire on the property owner, where it belongs, is very appropriate..."  Good to head into 2014 with that growing awareness, including political leaders willing to lead!

post #405 of 407
Quote:
Originally Posted by veteran View Post
 

Has anone heard of military grade padding, about 1cm thick, that stops heat from vertical takeoff jets and jet-copters? The thought crossed my mind of building those (not so) fire-proof "sleeping bags" out of it. If there's nothing like in civilian land, I might bring some to the fire dept at Squaw to look at.

My recollection is that, at Mesa Verde, when that area was being swept by wildfires back in the 90's, an historic fire tower was wrapped in a type of protective foil to protect it from the fire. Perhaps that is similar to what you are referring to.The building survived and I imagine anyone inside at the time would have been spared but I don't know about the effect of inhaling superheated gases or of having little oxygen to breathe.

post #406 of 407
Quote:
Originally Posted by oisin View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by veteran View Post

 
Has anone heard of military grade padding, about 1cm thick, that stops heat from vertical takeoff jets and jet-copters? The thought crossed my mind of building those (not so) fire-proof "sleeping bags" out of it. If there's nothing like in civilian land, I might bring some to the fire dept at Squaw to look at.

My recollection is that, at Mesa Verde, when that area was being swept by wildfires back in the 90's, an historic fire tower was wrapped in a type of protective foil to protect it from the fire. Perhaps that is similar to what you are referring to.The building survived and I imagine anyone inside at the time would have been spared but I don't know about the effect of inhaling superheated gases or of having little oxygen to breathe.

Sometimes buildings are wrapped in the material used for the personal fire shelters that I posted about upthread. The building's survival depends on the proximity and density of vegetation. The material is fairly effective at protecting from moderate levels of radiant heat for a short period of time, but it's real success is in preventing ignition from burning embers getting lodged in the structure. There is an easily-surpassed limit to the amount of heat the foil material can withstand.

And as I mentioned above, the problems for humans are the super-heated gases and lack of oxygen.
post #407 of 407
Thread Starter 

Bumping last year's wildfire thread because of news on the Rim Fire - Yosemite 

Man Charged with Starting Massive 2013 Rim Fire

 

This is pretty significant.

 I only recall a handful of fire starters charged over the years

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