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Which boot should I keep?

post #1 of 18
Thread Starter 

So after my big toe nail falling off from the one time I managed to hit the slopes last season I've come across two very nice boots (for me) this season for practically nothing.

 

I bought the 2010 Rossignol Synergy Sensor 100 and the 2013 Head Adapt Edge 90

 

The case for the Rossis: It's a little looser fitting while still being pretty snug and I have poor circulation in my calves/feet. There is more room in the toe without the boot feeling loose and I think my feet will feel better at the end of the day. It has a more substantial cuff to drive the ski. It has a more aggressive stance. It feels like there's less pressure points and less pressure overall around the calf. 

 

The case for the Heads: The tighter fit feels like it is probably more likely the correct fit (from what I gathered from my amatuer racing days the boot fitters had a very "embrace the pain" attitude), although I do have some concerns about pain, especially in the toes after a long day. The liner is warmer. These boots feel a lot lighter than the rossis. Some of the bells and whistles are nice, such as the super leverage thingy on the top two buckles and the grippy rubber bottom feels more natural to walk in. It looks aesthetically a good deal cooler (the least of my concerns).

 

I think I may have to hit the slopes with both, but I'm not a gear junky so what do you guys think? I live in New England where it's icy and have an okay set of carving skiis if that impacts your feedback at all. I ride mostly Black diamonds and I used to race a little about 5-6 years ago so I like to ski pretty aggressively so I guess I would consider myself an advanced intermediate. I'll probably end up pawning whichever one I like less after riding them on craigslist or something.

post #2 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikoras View Post

So after my big toe nail falling off from the one time I managed to hit the slopes last season I've come across two very nice boots (for me) this season for practically nothing.

 

I bought the 2010 Rossignol Synergy Sensor 100 and the 2013 Head Adapt Edge 90

 

The case for the Rossis: It's a little looser fitting while still being pretty snug and I have poor circulation in my calves/feet. There is more room in the toe without the boot feeling loose and I think my feet will feel better at the end of the day. It has a more substantial cuff to drive the ski. It has a more aggressive stance. It feels like there's less pressure points and less pressure overall around the calf. 

 

The case for the Heads: The tighter fit feels like it is probably more likely the correct fit (from what I gathered from my amatuer racing days the boot fitters had a very "embrace the pain" attitude), although I do have some concerns about pain, especially in the toes after a long day. The liner is warmer. These boots feel a lot lighter than the rossis. Some of the bells and whistles are nice, such as the super leverage thingy on the top two buckles and the grippy rubber bottom feels more natural to walk in. It looks aesthetically a good deal cooler (the least of my concerns).

 

I think I may have to hit the slopes with both, but I'm not a gear junky so what do you guys think? I live in New England where it's icy and have an okay set of carving skiis if that impacts your feedback at all. I ride mostly Black diamonds and I used to race a little about 5-6 years ago so I like to ski pretty aggressively so I guess I would consider myself an advanced intermediate. I'll probably end up pawning whichever one I like less after riding them on craigslist or something.

From the info you provided it would be impossible to advise you on which one to keep---read the WIKI:

http://www.epicski.com/a/boot-fitting-which-boot-will-work-for-me

to determine which boot has the right shape to fit you--- pay close attention to the shell fit

method suggested in the article.

 

If you toes are banging into the front of the shell, try tightening the ankle buckle tight enough to make it hurt then back off till it is just comfortable---this is the only buckle which can hold your foot into the back of the heel pocket and your toes away from the front.  I once had a fellow say that he thought the buckle was tight because it was hard to close which has nothing to do with how well it is holding the ankle.

 

the best advice would be for you to see a reputable boot fitter (you wouldn't buy braces on the net if your teeth were crooked) this is too important and expensive too shoot in the dark and hope for a good outcome.

 

mike

post #3 of 18
Thread Starter 

I guess "reputable" would be the operative word there considering the last bootfitter I went to talked me into the toe destroyers I was previously using. Either one of these boots feels a million times better than the last ones, and I did do research and try on some boots in the stores, measure my arch length and all that jazz. Just out of curiosity (obviously I'm going to go with fit over everything else) if my feet were made of playdough and could mold shape what would your opinion be on the two boots in comparison?


Edited by Nikoras - 6/12/13 at 12:19pm
post #4 of 18

Sorry, I can't see your feet from here.

 

On the other hand:

How much do you weigh?

How tall are you?

How big is your calf muscle at the top of the liner?

What size shoe do you wear

What size boots did you buy?

just general questions.

 

mike

post #5 of 18
Thread Starter 

I weigh 170~ish although I've just started working out quite a bit so this is subject to drop.

I'm 5'8-5'9

I have a pretty large calf muscle (this is one thing where I feel a tiny bit of pinching on the head, but none on the rossis even though I've heard the heads are for big calves). Both liners seem to rise to  where the muscle begins to widen.

I switch between a size 8 running sneaker to wear around the lab I work "I'm on my feet and moving around quite a bit all day" and a size 8.5 everyday shoe both fit comfortably.

After some hard consideration I went with 26.5 for both boots which seemed to be a good call because the rossis are on the longer and the heads are on the shorter side of that size. Also the digit destroyers I switched from said 255 (just assumed that meant they were 25.5) So I think a full size up just made more sense given that 25.5 made for an excruciatingly painful day of skiing.

 

I'm a D in foot width.


Edited by Nikoras - 6/12/13 at 3:52pm
post #6 of 18

Boots, are "the most important item in your skiing gear"---they are suppose to transfer your thoughts into the edge of the ski

A looooose boot will not do this, You will compensate----wahooooooo!!

 

Let's think about this a little---We (you) have a short boot with a large calf muscle in the top---any upward movement (extension) at the ankle/knee will push the calf into the back/top of the shell and there fore push the toes forward up into the toe box of the boot---this is why your toes are tight in the 25.0 shell, not because the boot was too small.

 

Your "solution" will allow your calf to just push your foot forward in the 26.0 shell but then allow it to move around more front to back----this will affect you in the fore aft balance plane and cause you to ski in a back seat position, not good, may not hurt the toes--- but not good.

 can anyone scream Quad burn!!!

 

It would be a better solution to flare the top/rear of the 25.0 shell rearward (change the forward lean of the boots) to allow your leg to stand more upright and not then push the foot forward.  This can be done if you find someone who knows how.  We do it all the time, click here to read how:     http://southernski.com/toe-jam-spreader-ultimate-cuff-stretcher.html

the article below the tools describes how this all works.  If you can't find someone to do this for you, we charge $50.00 plus shipping and handling.  Imagine being able to ski in the right size boots and not have your toes hurt nor your foot moving around.

 

Did you do the shell fit? on the 25.0 shell?----on the 26.0 shell?

What was the result?

what size calf circumference at the top of the liner?

 

happy skiing

 

 

mike


Edited by miketsc - 6/12/13 at 6:57pm
post #7 of 18
Thread Starter 

When I fit the 26.5 shell I had a little shy of an inch of space between the heel and my boot. I'm pretty sure that's a good thing according to the guides I have read. It was time to upgrade from the old boots regardless in addition to being too small (my toes were absolutely smashed) and old (I've had them since highschool), they're also too soft of a flex for me. Even attempting to put them on is well, a process. Shell fitting the 25's I have about 1/3rd an inch of space between my heel and the rear and I'm finding that the general shape of the boot creates a massive pressure point at the big toe. (Those boots are also too narrow maybe?)

 

Anyways the two that I'm working with now feel much better in just about every respect to those anyways and the thought of dealing with those toe crunchers is making my piggy that went to market want to go wee wee wee all the way home.

 

By the way, the little allen wrench width adjuster on the Heads is pretty nice, the 102 width feels a little more snug, and probably just about what I need.

 

I'd consult a boot fitter about the calf thing just to see, but I don't trust the bootfitter nearest me, the truth is I'm still working on a super tight "student loans budget" hence the buying boots off of ebay in the off season thing (although my big toenail falling off was a good reminder for that). I did as much research as I could tried on a few boots, and tried to surmise what I should buy without being an asshole and wasting the boot people's time and then buying offline. I got those head boots for 80$ WITH shipping so I can probably resell them for more come ski season if they don't fit.

 

I'm not sure if I'm doing this right but I measured the circumference of the calf from the very top of the back of the liner with my knee high ski sock on.

Rossis 39.2 cm

Heads 38.0 cm

 

EDIT: ahhhh I see what you were saying about the short boot driving the toe forwards when I think about it, and my old boots do look incredibly short (in comparison to the new 2), but I think in addition they were a little small to begin with even just looking at the mondo sizing (which says its 1/2-1 size smaller on the US scale when converted). I see how this compounds turning it into the toe compactor 9000.


Edited by Nikoras - 6/12/13 at 7:19pm
post #8 of 18

Where are you located?

an inch shell fit is too much for good control---

 

modern boots are better shaped to fit around feet.

how long are your feet in cm.  shoe sizes are all over the place.

mike

post #9 of 18
Thread Starter 

It's less than an inch, I'm bad at eyeballing this. hard to get it right with this tape measure but 26.7 heel to tip of big toe. Thanks for all the help btw.

 

EDIT: Oh and Cheshire Connecticut.

 

EDIT2: I marked the tip of my toe and the back of my heel with a pencil on a piece of paper 26.5 cm even (whew I really lucked out I guess). This is crouched down with my foot in front of me. I hear your foot contracts when you stand or something?


Edited by Nikoras - 6/12/13 at 8:40pm
post #10 of 18
Thread Starter 

I'm trying to find a way to accurately measure the distance between the back of my heel and the back of the shell. It's difficult with the way those shells are shaped (creating a pocket for the heel so I can't use a 1/2, 3/4 inch marker because it doesn't slide in). It's definitely less than 2 fingers stacked but I think that just means it's less than 1.1-1.2 inches which isn't really a useful reading besides telling me it's not super terrible.

post #11 of 18

put a tape measure on the floor in a doorway(no baseboard)put your foot on top of the tape, heel against door frame---read how long your foot is,

keep in mind that a custom, posted, footbed will make your foot shorter and stabilize it, do you have one?

 

the old finger rule is no good as fingers come in different thicknesses.

 

a good fit will be no more than 15mm

 

did you understand the calf muscle pushes your foot forward thing?

 

In most cases if you buy a boot marked the same as your foot length, you will have about an inch of space in a shell check.  too big for good---long term performance.

 

mike

post #12 of 18
Thread Starter 

I actually just ordered a heat moldable insole just because I think I need arch support as I'm on my feet all-day and they're killing me at the end of the day. We'll see if I can avoid trimming them until ski season and then remold them and pop them in.

 

Also I'm dumb, remember how I said I wore a size 8 sneaker and a size 8 1/2 shoe? I looked under the tongue and it turns out I'm wearing size 9 sneakers. I'll let you know if I can get a solid measurement once I get home and try it out.

post #13 of 18
Thread Starter 

UPDATE: So I sucked it up and drove to the nearest boot fitters because I really want to get this right. He took a look and said I'm really kind of in-between sizes. Both of the boots I have now might be a tad loose, but going down a boot size would make them very tight. Both of the boots I have now feel pretty damn snug so I guess I'll roll with it, even when the liners pack out I don't expect any dramatic foot movement. If I start having trouble I'll look into the atomic hawx which are 5mm shorter according to evo's little chart. (they are 305mm the ones I'm rolling with now are 309 and 310mm respectively.)

post #14 of 18

my recommendation----

 

 

Get a second opinionicon14.gif

 

some shops have "boot sellers" ---------erroneously called boot fittersicon13.gif.

 

mike

post #15 of 18
Thread Starter 

It was the only certified boot-fitter place I could find in Connecticut, here's their website http://alpinehausct.com/. It was just two kids working at the time (that didn't seem too helpful) perhaps if I go back in the fall they'll have a more knowledgeable staff on hand. As a side note I have noticed in my daily shoes that custom insoles set your feet forward a couple mm with the cupping in the back of the heel I guess that's a good thing.

post #16 of 18

BurgMan
Phil Burgess
Ski Stop
256 Washington St
Westwood Ma. 02090
(781)329-3616
phil@skistopmass.com
www.skistopmass.com

 

MDeChristopher

Mike DeChristopher

Competitive Edge Ski & Bike

Northampton Highway

Holyoke, MA 01040

(413)538-7662

mike@skituning.org

http://www.compedgeskibike.com

 

MA isn't too far from CT.

you might try setting an appointment with one of these guy's.

a short drive to get the right work might be worth it.

 

mike

post #17 of 18
Thread Starter 

Hmmm better call to make sure they have a bootfitter on staff for the summer before I drive up there, but I am committed to getting this right. I'm still on a "student loans" budget. Better start a fund or something. Maybe I can find random stuff around to sell on ebay. I'm very stoked for this winter.

post #18 of 18

Thanks Mike for the recommendation,....Nikoras I am sure Ski Stop can help. I would recommend calling us in Sept/Oct for an appointment. We should have our inventory of boots in by then. We will assess your feet and biomechanics and let you know what your best option would be. We have plenty of CT customers that visit us each season. Hope to see you in the Fall.

 

Burgman...

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