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Another Ski Binding Question

post #1 of 26
Thread Starter 

Hi,

 

Recently I have read a few reviews (ski reviews) and noticed the binding position.

Some reviewer mentioned that originally they had mounted at "suggested" and after moved to +/- 1 or +/- 2, and etc.

 

Here are my questions:

 

  • Does this mean if you have to move your ski binding to different mounting location, you would have to re-drill the ski?
  • Would extra hole(s) compromise the durability of the ski?
  • Are there any bindings which do not require re-drilling if the skier would like to move the binding position?
  • I am looking for either Look Pivot or Salomon STH bindings and I would assume that if I won't guess the correct binding position (I am planning to install at the line suggested by manufacturer), I would have to re-drill the ski, am I correct?

 

 

thank you,

 

Oleg

post #2 of 26
  • Does this mean if you have to move your ski binding to different mounting location, you would have to re-drill the ski?

 

Yes and no, depends on the binding.

 

  • Would extra hole(s) compromise the durability of the ski?

 

Drilling a second time should not.  A third or forth could potentially weaken it, however.

 

  • Are there any bindings which do not require re-drilling if the skier would like to move the binding position?

 

Yes.  Marker Schizo's for one, or any demo style binding.

 

  • I am looking for either Look Pivot or Salomon STH bindings and I would assume that if I won't guess the correct binding position (I am planning to install at the line suggested by manufacturer), I would have to re-drill the ski, am I correct?

 

Yes.  But the majority of the time, mounting on the line is the way to go unless you have a very specific reason to move forward or back.

post #3 of 26

JayT is absolutely correct, especially the last statement.  Every pair of skis I've ever owned have been mounted on the line.  The only exception was a pair of Elan Apex skis that were mounted 1.5cm behind because Dawgcatching highly recommended it, but there mounted with Head bindings that had +/-1.5cm of travel and my son loves them at -1.5cm.  Just have them mounted on the line and you'll be fine.

post #4 of 26
Thread Starter 

So, Head binding (which is I think is Tyrolia) will allow to move binding (if needed) to +/-1.5, wow, thank you. Any other binding could do the same?

Does anybody knows if STH or Pivot allow such flexibility?

 

and I don't think I would consider Marker Schizo:

1. I've read a lot of bad reviews about them

2. I don't think I would ever need so much +/- distance which Schizo offers.

 

thank you,

 

Oleg

post #5 of 26

Head/Tyrolia/Fischer bindings have the Railflex system that provides a pretty substantial range forward or back. +/-1.5 is a very easy change, but there is even more range if you can do basic math (you will know what I mean when you look at how the binding slides on the rail and can be adjusted for varying boot lengths).

post #6 of 26
Thread Starter 

Thank you..

I guess I'll take a peek into Tyrolia Peak 15 and Tyrolia Attack 16 bindings, not sure if these bindings could be set up with Railflex system, so I would do some digging.

post #7 of 26

The Tyrolia Peak 15 binding is designed to be mounted flat on the ski, therefore, it is not adjustable. These bindings do not incorporate the various Tyrolia/Head plates such as Freeflex, Railfex or Powerrail. Generally, the Peak series is mounted on wider skis where plate height is not needed. The Tyrolia/Head plate mounted bindings may be too narrow for a wide ski. The Tyrolia/Head Powerrail series is among the best for easily moving binding location.

 

If you tell us the ski that you intend to mount the binding onto, then some may offer their thoughts on the location of the binding on that specific ski. There are just too many skis that users find need to be mounted away from the "line". I know that one of my skis is mounted 2 cm forward...it's carver whereas powder skis tend to be mounted a little more back of the line. Generally, line mount is ok, but, the devil is in the details.

post #8 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oleg S View Post

So, Head binding (which is I think is Tyrolia) will allow to move binding (if needed) to +/-1.5, wow, thank you. Any other binding could do the same?
Does anybody knows if STH or Pivot allow such flexibility?

and I don't think I would consider Marker Schizo:

1. I've read a lot of bad reviews about them

2. I don't think I would ever need so much +/- distance which Schizo offers.


thank you,


Oleg
The Sth and pivots have fixed toes, therefore no fore and aft movement. There is a cost to add adjustability...it is at loosing a solid interface and adding weight.
post #9 of 26

What current 2-piece binding would be best for a very soft ski with tall lifters (2 piece)?   Narrow brakes availability preferred.       Top notch forward pressure maintenance is a must.

post #10 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by cantunamunch View Post

What current 2-piece binding would be best for a very soft ski with tall lifters (2 piece)?   Narrow brakes availability preferred.       Top notch forward pressure maintenance is a must.

I would say a Salomon Driver toe would be my first thought due to the elongated wings which hold the toe lug by the top vs. jus the front of the toe. I think the Driver wings will be a bit better than the Look single pivot toe. But between the two, it is close. With a soft flexing ski, the pivot heel might have a slight advantage over the traditional Salomon heel. 

post #11 of 26
Thread Starter 

Hello,

 

I have a Blizzard Bonafied in 180.

The reason why I had asked in the beginning, that I was reading this review to somehow similar ski http://blistergearreview.com/gear-reviews/2013-2014-blizzard-kabookie and had noticed that "Mount Location: +1 cm from recommended". I am not sure what does this mean exactly but reading few reviews from Blistergearreview, I had noticed that the mounting location is always different from recommended and sometimes, the reviewer mentioned that he or she had to move the binding to either "recommended" or "+something" or "-something" and was wondering how that was possible and most important if that would be really needed for my skis. Currently, I am considering few bindings for bonafied:

  • salomon sth (12 or 14) (or even sth2) with driver toe
  • tyrolia peak 15 (somehow similar to salomon, I think...)
  • tyrolia attack 13/16 -- this one, I believe a new binding and would need to take some research and reviews about it
  • look pivot 14 (if I could find some in the stores with brakes 95, would probably have to wait till October and 2014 models)
  • and totally not sure about Marker Jester bindings (the only reason, I had added them to my list: blistergearreview. I see that most of the binding they were using belong to Marker [Marker Jester]).

 

thank you,

 

Oleg

post #12 of 26

Mount your 180 Bonafides on the line and don't think twice about it.  Jesters are fine.  Any of those bindings are fine.

post #13 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oleg S View Post

Hello,

 

I have a Blizzard Bonafied in 180.

The reason why I had asked in the beginning, that I was reading this review to somehow similar ski http://blistergearreview.com/gear-reviews/2013-2014-blizzard-kabookie and had noticed that "Mount Location: +1 cm from recommended". I am not sure what does this mean exactly but reading few reviews from Blistergearreview, I had noticed that the mounting location is always different from recommended and sometimes, the reviewer mentioned that he or she had to move the binding to either "recommended" or "+something" or "-something" and was wondering how that was possible and most important if that would be really needed for my skis. Currently, I am considering few bindings for bonafied:

  • salomon sth (12 or 14) (or even sth2) with driver toe
  • tyrolia peak 15 (somehow similar to salomon, I think...)
  • tyrolia attack 13/16 -- this one, I believe a new binding and would need to take some research and reviews about it
  • look pivot 14 (if I could find some in the stores with brakes 95, would probably have to wait till October and 2014 models)
  • and totally not sure about Marker Jester bindings (the only reason, I had added them to my list: blistergearreview. I see that most of the binding they were using belong to Marker [Marker Jester]).

 

thank you,

 

Oleg

If you are waiting till next year, I would suggest strongly considering the new Salomon (or Atomic) Sth2 13. As much as I like the Pivot 14, the Salomon is a great option at $229.00.  Past that I do agree with Jay, stop thinking..sit back, relax, get a beverage of your choice and start thinking where you are going to take your new Bonafides first. 

post #14 of 26
Thread Starter 

Some binding manufacturer do install sliding ATF (Marker, Look, Rossignol PX series); however, not Salomon, nor Look Pivot have sliding ATF.

Does sliding ATF provide better release or it just another marketing trick?

post #15 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oleg S View Post

Some binding manufacturer do install sliding ATF (Marker, Look, Rossignol PX series); however, not Salomon, nor Look Pivot have sliding ATF.

Does sliding ATF provide better release or it just another marketing trick?

I wouldn't say it is a "trick" but it is their "opinion" that it creates a smoother interface. If you notice that there are NO sliding AFD's on any manufacture's bindings except Marker 20 and 30 DIN'ers. I always go back to the more moving parts under the boot, the less efficient the binding becomes. There was a time where even Salomon Steels had a Sphiric AFD (rotated on axis) and Look Pivots (Rossi FKS too) had sliding AFD's. 

post #16 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayT View Post

Mount your 180 Bonafides on the line and don't think twice about it.  Jesters are fine.  Any of those bindings are fine.

 

Oleg, JayT and others are spot on.  You have been way overthinking this whole package over the past few months.  Now, in the case of bindings, just pick one, mount on the line and go skiing.

 

In some cases, there are valid reasons to mount off the line - but you need to understand why you are doing it.  Either because of something you feel, or because you are going to use the ski in a particular way.  But vastly more times than not, especially with a ski like the bonafide that is pretty traditional in feel, on the line is the right call.  Did you demo?  If you did, I'm sure that the shop sent you out set up on the line.  If you are thinking about mounting a ski like the Bonafide but cannot articulate a reason that maps to your skiing style and preferences, or something you actually felt on the snow, you don't want to mount off the line. The dealers on this board have sold a ton of Bonafides and I would be than 99% leave the shop mounted on the line.  Blizzard's engineers have already thought this one through for you.

 

Just because someone says something on Blister (or here), doesn't make it absolutely true.  It is just one anecdotal opinion, and you have to know that the Blister guys are far from average Joe recreational skiers.  What they like and how they set it up probably has very little application to your ski reality.  OTOH, if you think that those guys are a style match for you, (a) you probably don't need to solicit advice around here and (b) fwiw, they didn't love the Bonafide - you should have bought something else like the Bibby Pro that they love.

 

I personally ride the Bonafide in 180, mounted on the line with Griffons.  Perfect.  I skied that set up 30+ days this past season across a wide range of conditions.  Either the 90 brake or the 110 will work.  I went with the 110 and have zero issues with overhang.  But the 90 with a slight bend would work also.  I know that Marker is disfavored on this board, and that Solly and Look are the binding of choice around here, but in terms of perceptible performance you have to be a TON of skier to notice a difference.  And even then, true perception of comparable bindings head to head is a bit of a princess and the pea thing.  I have skis mounted Solly Sth,  Marker royals, and they all work great - I can't feel a difference and I am a decent skier and I can easily perceive differences in skis and boots. 

 

The most important thing in bindings is to get a binding where your personal din setting falls closer to mid-range than top or bottom of the range.  Durability is another consideration, but all of the above will be fine for normal skiing.  As for the bindings on your list, unless you are 200+ lbs and dropping 10+ footers regularly, you don't need a Din16 binding - the Jesters and Attack 16 are way too much and you are taking an unnecessary weight penalty.  Go with Griffons or the Attack 13 if you favor those brands.  

 

Or, of the class on your list, go with the binding that looks the best, that you can get for the best price, have a legit shop mount them on the line and be done with it.   Then back away from gear reviews and start planning your ski season.  And check back in the fall when you are shopping powder skis.smile.gif

 

post #17 of 26
Thread Starter 

Thank you!

Good suggestion, I won't think about it till November...

"...Did you demo? ..."

Well, that is the whole problem, I bought the ski without demoing them redface.gif, just based on positive reviews.

Every time when I went to demo shop, the bones were out...

So, I've tried Bushwacker @ 180 (did not like it much... ) and after tried Cochise @ 177 and they (Cochise) were great ski, responsive, easy to navigate, may be a little bit too wide for 'no snow for weeks' condition.

So, I figured out, that if Bonafide is in the middle, I would go with it (little bit thinner package than Cochise).

But anyhow, I will wait till the first snow and will try to get a demo Bonafide before actually installing the bindings on mine (just to make sure that I do like the ski).

 

snowfalling.gif

post #18 of 26

I mount my bindings using a radius measurement method that I'm sure has a name, but I don't know what it is.  The idea is to find the geometric center of the ski while held in it's natural turning arc, or more specifically the actually part of the ski that is doing the turning.  I put the ski on edge on a hard surface and press it down, so the ski is held in it's natural arc.  On a hard surface, it is easy to see where the sidecut reverses to form the tip and tail.  I mark right where light begins to show at the tip and tail, then find the midpoint between these two marks.  I then position my boot so the ball of my foot is directly on this midpoint.

 

Just as reference, I have a pair of '08 Solomon X-Wing Typhoon that measured exactly to the factory C/L mark using this technique.  I also skied a pair of '06 Nordica SUV12s this year, and they measured almost 1 1/2" in front of the factory C/L mark.  I had to move the stock rail binding toe piece all the way to the frontmost position to get them to the arc center - they skied MUCH better than at the factory setting.

post #19 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayC View Post

I mount my bindings using a radius measurement method that I'm sure has a name, but I don't know what it is.  The idea is to find the geometric center of the ski while held in it's natural turning arc, or more specifically the actually part of the ski that is doing the turning.  I put the ski on edge on a hard surface and press it down, so the ski is held in it's natural arc.  On a hard surface, it is easy to see where the sidecut reverses to form the tip and tail.  I mark right where light begins to show at the tip and tail, then find the midpoint between these two marks.  I then position my boot so the ball of my foot is directly on this midpoint.

 

The name for that is "Ball of Foot on Chord Center"

post #20 of 26
Hello, guys,
I've read the thread but still don't know what to choose. What would you advise: tyrolia attack 11 or tyrolia peak 11? I've got a pair of K2 missDemeanor, there are supposed to be good for all type of riding: park, 50/50 trail and free-rider. Before I've been riding mostly on trails, but this winter I'mgoing to ride in a park and freeride too.
Ski: 121-90-112
I am 164 tall and 52 kilos.

Thank you!
post #21 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by salvajoe View Post

Hello, guys,
I've read the thread but still don't know what to choose. What would you advise: tyrolia attack 11 or tyrolia peak 11? I've got a pair of K2 missDemeanor, there are supposed to be good for all type of riding: park, 50/50 trail and free-rider. Before I've been riding mostly on trails, but this winter I'mgoing to ride in a park and freeride too.
Ski: 121-90-112
I am 164 tall and 52 kilos.

Thank you!

Welcome to Epic.  Get the AAAtack 11, it is a better binding that the Peak 11.

post #22 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtcyclist View Post

Welcome to Epic.  Get the AAAtack 11, it is a better binding that the Peak 11.
Thank you. Why are they better? Can you give me a reason? I just feel the same, but can't explain why I would prefer Attack . It seems to me that this is because the design. But sometimes I think that for my level of riding Peak is enough. 🤔
post #23 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by salvajoe View Post


Thank you. Why are they better? Can you give me a reason? I just feel the same, but can't explain why I would prefer Attack . It seems to me that this is because the design. But sometimes I think that for my level of riding Peak is enough. 🤔

build of AAAtack 11 is better (burlier) than Peak 11. That is an advantage, the disadvantage is the weight, AAAtack 11 should be a little bit more heavier.

post #24 of 26

You won't notice the small weight difference.

post #25 of 26

Thank you,

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtcyclist View Post
 

You won't notice the small weight difference.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oleg S View Post
 

build of AAAtack 11 is better (burlier) than Peak 11. That is an advantage, the disadvantage is the weight, AAAtack 11 should be a little bit more heavier.


Thank you, guys! Just ordered the  Attack!

post #26 of 26
Thread Starter 
Good luck!
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