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Ski Areas Lobby for Climate Change Policy - Page 2

post #31 of 54

Oh come on..  Someone's about to claim that  the most recent 15 years of data > the entire history of the earth with regard to warming or cooling trends. 

 

Coming in 3....2.....1....

post #32 of 54

Booooom!!!!

 

Deny, deny and deny !!! It might work !

Overwhelming (+95%) number of scientist are claiming that human activity (burning fossil fuel) does contribute to climate change. 

Oil industry (fossil fuel) lobby  claims otherwise. With their "purchasing" power I am surprised that they were able to "buy" only remaining 5%.

post #33 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by goranmilos View Post

Booooom!!!!

 

Deny, deny and deny !!! It might work !

Overwhelming (+95%) number of scientist are claiming that human activity (burning fossil fuel) does contribute to climate change. 

Oil industry (fossil fuel) lobby  claims otherwise. With their "purchasing" power I am surprised that they were able to "buy" only remaining 5%.

Great! So what percentage of the cliimate changes were cause by human activity, according to those 95% scientist?

post #34 of 54

Back on topic, ski areas want to lobby to enact policies and practices that slow or reverse whatever manmade behavior might be accelerating climate changes..

 

So that more people can book flights on jumbo jets that burn 18,000 gallons of jet fuel every 5 hours to go to mountains where thousands and thousands of acres of forestry has been stripped and ride diesel powered conveyances up the peaks where they ski down then soak in hot tubs.. Got it!rolleyes.gif

post #35 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by at_nyc View Post

Great! So what percentage of the cliimate changes were cause by human activity, according to those 95% scientist?


My understanding is that 100% of the climate changes were caused by changes in our atmosphere.  Changes to the atmosphere can come about in various ways: in the past it has happened due to massive meteor impacts or volcanic eruptions, currently it is from 6billion people deforesting entire continents and burning fossel fuels at a staggering rate.  Frankly if 1 meteor can cause an ice age....what people have been doing for the last 200 years shouldnt surprise anyone that we can alter our atmosphere. 

 

I am sure you can google lots of studies that show this - problem is they are likley boring, and long winded with lots of data and analysis.  If you limit your research to "fox news" or 1 page anlysis with pretty pictures you wont likely find reality.

post #36 of 54

-1000%

scientific answer 

post #37 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post

Back on topic, ski areas want to lobby to enact policies and practices that slow or reverse whatever manmade behavior might be accelerating climate changes..

 

So that more people can book flights on jumbo jets that burn 18,000 gallons of jet fuel every 5 hours to go to mountains where thousands and thousands of acres of forestry has been stripped and ride diesel powered conveyances up the peaks where they ski down then soak in hot tubs.. Got it!rolleyes.gif

 

Actually its to protect a way of life for those that live year round in the mountains, and have turned their back on big business, profit driven madness of the big cities, and frankly just the want the "suits" to stay where they are. 

 

Protecting the environment is everones problem.  The solution is actually simple....problem is, that is not very palatable for most people.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

For those who care what that solution is:  its population reduction.  World is over populated, and getting worse by the second.

post #38 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skidude72 View Post

I am sure you can google lots of studies that show this - problem is they are likley boring, and long winded with lots of data and analysis.  If you limit your research to "fox news" or 1 page anlysis with pretty pictures you wont likely find reality.

You didn't answer the question. Instead, you went into a long winded and boring lecture against fox news!

 

In my calculus III class, our math professor said "so you're struggling to follow this long proof, which makes sense but doesn't looks like it's getting any close to proving anything, suddenly, the author wrote: 'clearly, this proves...' and that's the end of the proof. You know what? The author didn't have a proof! He's just pulling wool over your eyes"! 

 

True science maybe complex in the process, but the answer must not be. If the answer is muddy, it's because the science underneath was unclear. (or at least the lecturer was unclear about the science he's lecturing!)

post #39 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skidude72 View Post

 

For those who care what that solution is:  its population reduction.  World is over populated, and getting worse by the second.

Actually, you're right.  But it is too many damn cows, not too many damn people..

 

Do cows pollute as much as cars?

 

Gotta run turn the burgers on the grill, doing my part to help out ya knowwink.gif

 

 

 

You do know there would be no lift served resorts at all without tourism right?

post #40 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by at_nyc View Post

You didn't answer the question. Instead, you went into a long winded and boring lecture against fox news!

 

In my calculus III class, our math professor said "so you're struggling to follow this long proof, which makes sense but doesn't looks like it's getting any close to proving anything, suddenly, the author wrote: 'clearly, this proves...' and that's the end of the proof. You know what? The author didn't have a proof! He's just pulling wool over your eyes"! 

 

True science maybe complex in the process. But the answer must not be. If the answer is muddy, it's because the science underneath was unclear. 


The answer is clear - people are causing climate change.  Nothing muddy about it. 

 

"Fox News types" thou, love the 1 liner comentary or solution.  Its dumbed down reporting, and is frankly very dangerous.  Why is it dangerous?  Because it is nothing short of propaganda designed to inflict emotional respones. 

 

Just because one sceintistic study says 87% is caused by humans, another says 94%, and another says 67%, doesnt throw out the science.  Studys, predictions, models all rely on a certain degree of assumptions - that is just reality, depending on those assumptions, will affect the outcome, but that underlying science is solid.

 

 

Assumptions:

 

I know you will pounce on this - all "fox news types" do.  So there is assumptions in the study - so the study is bunk you say.  No.  Assumptions need to be made on things like, we know how much CO2 is being produced today...how much will be produced in 5, 10 15, 20 years?  Will it be a steady increase of 3% a year? 5%?  12%?  Hold steady?  Decrease at 1% a year?  We dont know..and those things are assumed...but the fact that CO2 emissions increase the temperature of the Earth is fact. 

post #41 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post

Actually, you're right.  But it is too many damn cows, not too many damn people..

 

Do cows pollute as much as cars?

 

Gotta run turn the burgers on the grill, doing my part to help out ya knowwink.gif

 

 

 

You do know there would be no lift served resorts at all without tourism right?


Agreed - if only we could those dam people to stop eating we'd be good.

 

 

As for no lift served "resorts" without tourism - ridiculous.  Where I grew up and learned to ski, I can pretty much guarantee you everyone was local. 

 

Also go to NZ and check out the club fields - wanna get fit?  Those guys are fit. 

 

Sure maybe they wont be "resorts" like Whistler or Aspen or Vail...but frankly I dont care, I'd take a small club on a big mountain anyday.  I dont need the glitz.

post #42 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skidude72 View Post

 

Just because one sceintistic study says 87% is caused by humans, another says 94%, and another says 67%, doesnt throw out the science.  Studys, predictions, models all rely on a certain degree of assumptions - that is just reality, depending on those assumptions, will affect the outcome, but that underlying science is solid.

 

 

 

And some study say 20%, some 5%. 

 

Does 5% still means "people are causing climate changes"? 

 

Quote:

Assumptions:

 

Assumptions need to be made on things like, we know how much CO2 is being produced today...how much will be produced in 5, 10 15, 20 years?  Will it be a steady increase of 3% a year? 5%?  12%?  Hold steady?  Decrease at 1% a year?  We dont know..and those things are assumed...but the fact that CO2 emissions increase the temperature of the Earth is fact. 

 

 

Assumption is only needed for future. But for the past, there's far less need for assumption. 

 

All "climate models" are projecting future with the trend of the past. As with all extrapolations, a small error in the "known" curve will produce a huge error in the extrapolation. How sound were those data? Not the ones I've seen! 

 

It's not about the assumptions (even though they'll come into play later on). It's the past that's being constantly changed and modified as soon as they're under scrutiny. Projection based on shaky data is beyond dangerous! 

post #43 of 54

So, basically, we have no clue ?

post #44 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by goranmilos View Post

So, basically, we have no clue ?

 

We know its getting a bit warmer. Adding in some moisture. The firework shows are getting bigger and more frequent. The F5 type events can be a dozy! I have a friend that got transferred out to Norman OK because she's in the weather biz. She and her family were almost sucked up, spit out and blown away a couple times last week. She's starting to miss the earthquake weather.

post #45 of 54

It is undeniable fact that human activity causes global warming !

post #46 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by at_nyc View Post

 

And some study say 20%, some 5%. 

 

Does 5% still means "people are causing climate changes"? 

 

 

Assumption is only needed for future. But for the past, there's far less need for assumption. 

 

All "climate models" are projecting future with the trend of the past. As with all extrapolations, a small error in the "known" curve will produce a huge error in the extrapolation. How sound were those data? Not the ones I've seen! 

 

It's not about the assumptions (even though they'll come into play later on). It's the past that's being constantly changed and modified as soon as they're under scrutiny. Projection based on shaky data is beyond dangerous! 

 

Yes.

 

You need to look into that data to see what they call human factors - for example they include car emissions, but dont include agriculture effects (its those dam cows fault!).  They also limit the sample size to say Oklahoma....so human factors such as what happens in China/India and other heavy industrial areas are ignored. 

post #47 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skidude72 View Post

Does 5% still means "people are causing climate changes"? 

 

Yes.

That's it! 5% counts. I guess 1% also counts?

 

So you WILL stick your Pirus into the path of a run away semi with fully loaded double trailer, because it will make an effect, however insignificant? 

post #48 of 54

Fossil fuel burning contributes to climate change !

Reduce fossil fuel consumption .

post #49 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by at_nyc View Post

That's it! 5% counts. I guess 1% also counts?

 

So you WILL stick your Pirus into the path of a run away semi with fully loaded double trailer, because it will make an effect, however insignificant? 


You didnt read my post.  Please do so then comment again. 

post #50 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skidude72 View Post


You didnt read my post.  Please do so then comment again. 

Why don't you re-read your own post and see if it makes sense at all!

post #51 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by at_nyc View Post

Why don't you re-read your own post and see if it makes sense at all!


I actually did.  If you have questions please ask.

 

 

But anticipating your question:

 

The 5% studies worked like this:

 

If we assume that everone in the world lived and had an economy like Oklohoma, do people cause climate change?  Answer - No.

 

Problem is...substantial portions of the worlds population dont live like people in Oklohoma, so its a false study to extrapolate from. 

post #52 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skidude72 View Post


I actually did.  If you have questions please ask.

 

 

But anticipating your question:

 

The 5% studies worked like this:

 

If we assume that everone in the world lived and had an economy like Oklohoma, do people cause climate change?  Answer - No.

 

Problem is...substantial portions of the worlds population dont live like people in Oklohoma, so its a false study to extrapolate from. 

I tried to find a question to fit your answer but couldn't. 

post #53 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skidude72 View Post


Agreed - if only we could those dam people to stop eating we'd be good.

 

 

As for no lift served "resorts" without tourism - ridiculous.  Where I grew up and learned to ski, I can pretty much guarantee you everyone was local. 

 

 

I like the locals only vibe and also grew up in an area full of smaller ski hills.  But, in this day of austerity there would be no road maintenance or snow removal on public roads surrounding   any ski hills not generating a lot of tourist tax money to boot.  This is one reason why so many of those mom and pop places have closed over the past two decades.

post #54 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post

I like the locals only vibe and also grew up in an area full of smaller ski hills.  But, in this day of austerity there would be no road maintenance or snow removal on public roads surrounding   any ski hills not generating a lot of tourist tax money to boot.  This is one reason why so many of those mom and pop places have closed over the past two decades.

 

Perfect!  Give all those soccer moms with the giant SUVs a chance to actually put them in 4wd!

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