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Forgiveness in Samba/Kabookie?

post #1 of 7
Thread Starter 

I am a retired 67 year old former athlete (5'8", 165 pounds with an artificial right hip) who has taken up skiing.  I spend my winters in Park City UT and have skied 250 days in the past three seasons.  I spent much of the first of my three season on groomers, but after attending four John Clendennin bump clinics in Park City, I stay on the bump runs and pretty much avoid groomers.  I don't ski very fast, and try to be slow, smooth, and graceful in the bumps.  I want to do better in the bumps when the conditions are harder and less forgiving and I would like to become comfortable in the trees.

 

After trying many free Rossi demos at Deer Valley during my first season, I ended up with 186 cm S3s as my daily driver and 188 cm S7s for powder days.  John Clendennin was all over me for my skis being too long, so I got a pair of 159 cm S3s at the Park City swap meet, and they have been my every day ski, except for powder days when I use the S7s.  While the 159 cm S3s have been instrumental in my improvement in the bumps, they are obviously too short and I am looking for something longer.  Also, neither pair of my S3s seem to like hard conditions, which have become more common in Utah the past two seasons.

 

Since I am relatively inexperienced but avoid groomed trails, I think that forgiveness, quickness, and ability to ski crud are the most important characteristics for me.  After spending the past several days reading posts and reviews, I am thinking of getting  173 cm Kabookies/Sambas.  As a daily driver in Utah, I like that they are 98 underfoot as opposed to 90 for the Bushwacker, Prophet 90, and Steadfast and are fairly soft and forgiving. However, the 2013 Buyers Guide in Ski Magazine describes the Samba as not very forgiving, which seems contradictory.  Since the Samba/Kabookie is a Bonafide w/o the metal and the Bonafide gets good marks for forgiveness, I am confused.

 

My son is a former mogul racer on the Park City Freestyle team, and kids me about already having too much gear.  He tells me that  it's the Indian, not the bow and arrow that matters.  As I have improved, I have started using the 186 cm S3s and the 188 cm S7s more often.  Will staying with my current gear limit my improvement?  If I do get skis, is a pair of 173 cm Kabookie/Sambas a good choice for me?  Despite what the review in the  2013 Buyers Guide in Ski Magazine, are they forgiving enough for someone like me?

post #2 of 7

You kinda asked for two things that don't usually come together good in bumps/forgiveness and crud performance.

 

You seem to have either a too long or too short S3! 173cm range you are looking for seems to be a good mid point for your size. THe S3 should be pretty good in bumps, but not really a crud ski!

 

I do like my Line Prophet 98, it's quick, easy but again no much of a crud buster! I'm 5'5" / 150 and I ski it in 172cm.

 

In the 98mm range Prophet 98 (as opposed to P90), Hell&Back (as opposed to Steadfast) are comparable skis to the Kabookies/Samba.

 

I think you are doing the right thing, trying to find a ski in the 170s range as a daily driver. I would try to sell both S3s, keep the S7 and get a 98mm 170s.

 

I wouldn't trust much the magazine reviews... different people have different opinions, but there seems to be a common opinion that the kabookie is very forgiving but the samba not so much, but they are pretty much the same ski, the issue is that samba is usually skied by women which normally are lighter than male skiers which tend to be stronger, heavier!

post #3 of 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by ParkCityTC View Post

I am a retired 67 year old former athlete (5'8", 165 pounds with an artificial right hip) who has taken up skiing.  I spend my winters in Park City UT and have skied 250 days in the past three seasons.  I spent much of the first of my three season on groomers, but after attending four John Clendennin bump clinics in Park City, I stay on the bump runs and pretty much avoid groomers.  I don't ski very fast, and try to be slow, smooth, and graceful in the bumps.  I want to do better in the bumps when the conditions are harder and less forgiving and I would like to become comfortable in the trees.

 

 

...After spending the past several days reading posts and reviews, I am thinking of getting  173 cm Kabookies/Sambas.  As a daily driver in Utah, I like that they are 98 underfoot as opposed to 90 for the Bushwacker, Prophet 90, and Steadfast and are fairly soft and forgiving. However, the 2013 Buyers Guide in Ski Magazine describes the Samba as not very forgiving, which seems contradictory.  Since the Samba/Kabookie is a Bonafide w/o the metal and the Bonafide gets good marks for forgiveness, I am confused.

 

Welcome to Epic. First, I'd say that Rossis are a pretty good choice for someone your size and age with a bionic hip. Meaning, you'll probably like something that's damp over something that's lively; let the ski do some of the work in absorbing shock. Other brands that are known for their dampness would include Kastle, Dynastar, Head, K2, and Stockli. 

 

Second, I wouldn't see a Bonafide as particularly forgiving in bumps for a lighter skier, and the Kabookie is said not be significantly flexier, just lighter. The Samba, far as I can tell, is a Kabookie with a different top sheet. None of the three are "soft" in the sense most use the term. More generally, a 98 ski wouldn't be most people's pick for your mission - aimed at hardpack and in bumps. It's pretty wide to be quick in the troughs, or to get up on edge and bite in quickly. 

 

So given that you already own two 98 mm skis, why not go for something narrower? The Bushwacker IMO would be great for bumps, decent on harder snow, although it's not what I'd call damp. Some other candidates you might think about: Rossi Experience 88, Head REV85, Dynastar Outland 87, Kastle LX82, K2 Aftershock, Stockli Rotor 84. 

post #4 of 7

Welcome to EpicSki. 

 

For the most part, your questions have been answered by the two previous posts.  However, as a lover of the Samba, and can add something more about how they perform. 

 

The Samba's are forgiving on most terrain, but they don't really shine unless you drive them through the turn.  

I wouldn't say that they're forgiving in the bumps, but they ski well in the bumps if you have some skills to move through them. 

 

If you need to be on a more relaxed ski then there may be something better for you, but you won't necessarily get that feeling of power that you're also looking for from the Kabookie or Samba. 

post #5 of 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by ParkCityTC View Post

the 2013 Buyers Guide in Ski Magazine describes the Samba as not very forgiving, which seems contradictory.  Since the Samba/Kabookie is a Bonafide w/o the metal and the Bonafide gets good marks for forgiveness, I am confused.

 

 

There is a complicated gender-related thing going on here. The ski mags tend to bias their reviews differently depending on whether a men's (unisex) or women's ski is being reviewed. Part of this has to do with what kinds of comments sell skis to different target audiences and lead to happy customers. There is divergence between men and women in this area, part of which is driven by physiology and part of which is based on psycho-social factors. Another part of the complex has to do with who is doing the testing and how big and strong they are. A third part has to do with where the characteristics of the ski fall relative to its peer skis in the test. So, for example, a Kabookie might be middle-of the pack in forgivness among unisex skis, but at the demanding end among women's skis. I could go on, but I think you get the idea.

 

All the other feedback you've gotten is good. I would say that there is some tension between your desire for a ski that is quick and good in bumps on the one hand, and for a ski that is good in crud on the other. I thought the 173 Samba that I spent a day on was great in crud, but not particularly quick or special in bumps. Since you've already got a long S3 for powder days, Beyond's suggestion to go narrower makes sense to me.

post #6 of 7
Thread Starter 

Thanks, this is the information I needed.  

post #7 of 7

The K2 aftershock  is great ski.  Not making next year.  See if you can get a demo or leftover.smile.gif

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