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Elan M12 vs. ?

post #1 of 24
Thread Starter 
Has anyone tried the Elan M12. other options at this time are the Bandit XX or the Head iM70 or 75. Any suggestions? I prefer powder, moguls, steeps, and don't mind ripping some turns at speed when the other two arn't around. I mainly ske tahoe if that matters. I love my rossi 9S but they are getting a bit old and I want a bigger foot print. Thanks for any help.
post #2 of 24
I have not skied the M12, but I have skied the M10, it felt just like my Volkl G3's. I have been told that Volkl bought Elan. I believe the M12 is a stiffer ski. I demoed it at Okemo in late March. Can't remember the waist size of the M12. But I think you may want to look at the new crop of appox. 75cm waist skis. The Volkl 724 Pro was a fun ride. My son is leaning towards that for next season. I find the G3 to be a great all mountain ski. I have demoed a lot of skis and still like the G3 best of all. I only spent two runs on the M10 but I really liked it too. There are other threads on this site that may help you with back ground on other skis. You should tell us your age, weight, height and level. That would help. But if your on a 9S you should be a level 3 skier.
post #3 of 24
I skied a bit of the Elan line last feb at Trade Fair. The regular M12/M10 stuff seemed like pretty solid skis. The have all the versatility you would expect from a 107-70-97 type. I personally don't feel that they have as nice of a well balanced feel as say the Volkl 724 AX3 (G3), but you should be able to get one quite a bit cheaper. However, the Marker binding integrated Fusion series was kind of different. The ski seemed to round out underfoot so much that the ski did not respond well. Some people may like that. Most of us who tested Volkl the last few years felt the same way about Motion skis (until the Supersports), but our customers loved them.
post #4 of 24
Hi, Youngblood!

I own G3's in a 170 (I weigh 160) and skied the M12's at the trade fair last March, also in a 170. Both are superb skis, very similar in purpose and feel: smooth, versatile, precise, powerful, yet user friendly if you ski them well. If you get a chance to demo them, I think you'll like them! The 724's are a significantly wider ski, probably better in deep powder, but not as versatile.

Good luck!

[ June 26, 2003, 05:58 PM: Message edited by: mike_m ]
post #5 of 24
Thread Starter 
thanks for the help guys.
to answer smithby's question:
24 years old
180 lbs.
sking for 17 years
and I really am not trying to get a big head--but I am usually one of the better all mountain skiiers out on any particular day if that helps. I really love a ski with some kick--i loved how the 9S just springs you out of a hard carve, but I am starting to want more float. Want to maintain a tight turn capibility though. Thanks for the suggestions so far, and would definetly welcome any more you guys had.
thanks
post #6 of 24
Thread Starter 
Oh yeah-
The G3 sounds good, but I had bad luck with the volkl P40 2 years back. Broke three pairs in one season and gave up on them. Is this normal for volkl? Part of the problem was the race ski wasn't really made for the park, but they should be tougher than that!
post #7 of 24
Unfortunately, your story about durability issues with Volkl sounds all too familiar. You can find numerous stories in this forum from people with the same problem. I used to be a big fan of Volkl's, but over the last few years their quality has really suffered. I went through the same experience with the last pair I owned. To be fair, Volkl was very good about taking care of me,
but until they get their act together, I'll be taking my business elsewhere. Not that Salomon or Rossi is exactly setting the world on fire when it comes to value for your dollar, either. I'm presently sliding on a pair of Heads, super quality at a reasonable price, and I haven't heard anybody complaining about bending them. Head reminds me of where Volkl was 10 years ago, a smaller company that didn't do a lot of marketing promotions or make a lot of skis, but the ones they did make were something special. You might want to try a pair of the Head Monster IM 70's, (113-70-102), one of the most versatile midfats I've tried, with great edge grip. The Atomic R 11 is also a super all around ski with a slightly wider footprint (108-70-99). I have a pair of these that I'm going to be using for early and late season. My buddies that race on Atomics say that they never seem to wear out, but I've heard some people complaining about tune issues with them.
post #8 of 24
Youngblood, I have had no problems with my last 3 pair of volkls and I ski over 60 days a season. My 16 y/o doesn't care for my G3's but loves his R11's, I find the R11 to be a hard ride, I'm 48y/o and like a softer riding ski. But I will agree the R11 is a great ski. Between the two from us we have 8 pairs of skis that we can play on.

I have heard good things about the Heads, but I have never demoed any.

The 724's are not that much wider under foot. I have a pair of Atomic 10EX's 84 waist, they are not a bad all mountain ski if your doing a lot of softer snow. Even here in the East they are not that bad when the snow gets skied off and your left with less then perfect snow(ice).

There are a lot of great skis out there. You have come to the right place to find answers. Keep looking through other threads on this site you will find lots of info.
post #9 of 24
If you like snap you wont enjoy the Head I.M.70. I was able to ski them for a day at Jay peak last season and they were less than desireable as far as snap was concerned. They were no where near the snow of a slalom ski or even other midfats i have been on. It is also a very soft ski, and it is lacking the "chip" that the other head skis have. I think this leaves the ski feeling softer than it should. It handles quite well, but will not be tossing you out of turns like a stiff ski will.
Later
GREG
post #10 of 24
Thread Starter 
hey Heluvaskier

what would you recommend in something with a little more kick?
post #11 of 24
The IM 75 is built for more speed than the IM70. It has very good edge hold. It is a damp ski and can be moderatly lively for a 75 mm waist ski. As far as snap is concerned, it doesn't have as much as their slalom ski which is to be expected for an all mountain ski that love speed.
post #12 of 24
I make it a point to ski most of the new skis every season, and when it comes to midfat all mountain skis, I don't think I could say that any of them really impressed me as being snappy. I've heard people complain that the Atomics are not very zippy, the new Salomon Pilot Hot series are said to be very dead feeling, K2's Axis XP is not very lively. But you've got to remember that all terrain skis are just that; they are made to be skied at least some of the time in ungroomed conditions where a real lively ski would work against you. If you want something with some pop with a little wider platform, try the Volkl Supersport 5 Stars. From what I've read in this forum, they don't tend to be as user friendly off piste as most other skis of similar dimensions, but they will give you some pop out of the turn, somewhat like a slalom ski would. I found them to be a little nervous for a true all terain ski, but never did try them in any real dicy conditions. Just don't blame me if you end up bending them. As far as the Head IM 70's, I skied them on a couple of different occasions, and I did not find them to be overly soft, nor did I feel that the ski was unstable at higher speeds. The Head Monster series of skis does have a unique feel to them, kind of hard to describe, but I think they are worth a try.
post #13 of 24
youngblood, When I demo skis that are not the correct lenght for me they can feel dead, but when I ski them in the correct lenght most of the high end Freeride skis/Mid fats have enough "POP". The R11 is a lively ski if you get it in the correct lenght. If your about 5' 10" you will want to ski it in 170cm. You told us your info but left out height. If your shorter then that you should look for something in the 165cm area. Again you may want to try the Volkl724's. They sound like what you are looking for.
I wish Atomic would make skis in lenghts like 165, and 175. They would fit a lot more people.
post #14 of 24
I dis agree with the length statement. I wouldnt reccommend going any shorter than 170cm for an all mountain ski that you will be taking off piste etc. I currently ride 179cm Salomon Xscreams as my freeride skis, and im only 5'7" 150lbs. I wouldnt want this ski to be any shorter. The length gives much better stability at speed as well as in crud and cut up snow. I have skied the IM70 in a 177 and found that it wasnt as stable as my Xscreams in a GS type of turn at similar speeds. The Bandit XX is quite a snappy ski, but it doesnt ski like the other skis that have been mentioned. By comparison it has much less sidecut than say the IM70, so you get a different feel. It is a snappy feeling ski - but deffinitly not a turny feeling ski. In a search to find a ski to replace my Xscreams (since they are aging) i have been intrigued by stockli's freeride line. They seem to be the only company that offers wide waisted skis with true race ski construction. They arent terribly popular in western NY so finding a pair to demo is quite a task. I would imagine that the stormrider has a stronger feel to it than any other ski out there. Since i have not skied on it or any other stockli i cant comment - but i have never heard anything bad about the stockli line.
Later
GREG
post #15 of 24
Failed to mention the Xscream in my previous post, was just thinking of the newer models that I've tried, but they seem to meet most of the requirements that you're looking for. I'd say that they are probably a little more lively that the average all terrain skis out there. The only thing that bothers me a little bit would be the stability issue, especially if you are coming off a race type ski. I've heard people complain they tend to lose it at higher speeds on harder snow, but I skied them as my main boards for a couple of seasons, and didn't have any stability issues with them as long as I kept a good edge on them, but then again, I was skiing them in a 195. Might not be a bad one to try, I'd just go a little longer than you might normally.
post #16 of 24
I agree the X scream needs to be skied in a longer lenght. When I demoed them a few years back, my impression was they were not "Volkl's", The X scream, I felt, lacked the edge hold and was not stable at speed compared to a Volkl. I have a freind that has been instructing for over 20 years, she bought the X screams in 179cm she is 5'10", I told her not to buy them, but what do I know. She was not happy with the ski, she has also been a Volkl person for years. The only Solamon skis that I have felt good on are they're race skis. I had a pair of 3V's in 176cm (great all mountain ski). But that's just me, the X scream was and is a popular ski, maybe you just need to ski it long.
post #17 of 24
I agree, i wouldnt want mine any shorter than 179. At speed they are great, but on ice they are horrible unless they have a wonderful edge on them. I usually keep them very tuned up and only really ski on them about 5 - 10 times a season - if that. so as you can imagine even though they are 3 seasons old they look brand new. I skied the Xscream exclusively 4 seasons ago and broke them, and have been using the replacements ever since. After that first season on them i started getting into more race oriented skis and spent some QT on an array of shortie slaloms. I still love the xscreams for off piste skiing - i have found no other ski like it. It is true that if they arent tuned they feel like they dont even have edges. If you are used to a race ski i would not reccommend them. They are a fairly stiff midfat but they do not feel like a race ski at all... and they feel nothing like my stock salomon GS skis.
Later
GREG
post #18 of 24
I have to agree with HeluvaSkier here. I failed to mention in my previous post that while I had the Xscreams, I was also skiing on a pair of the Volkl P30 RC race carvers in a 198. They are definetly two different animals. One other all terrain ski that I tried that had a racy feel to it was the Volkl Vertigo G4. The G4 has a wider footprint than the other skis mentioned here (83mm waist), but it was a blast to ski, even on hardpack. I skied it at Cannon one day when the conditions ranged from solid ice to sugar snow crud, and it was one of those fun days that really sticks out in your mind.
post #19 of 24
Thread Starter 
Did you happen to try the G4 in the bumps? That would be a huge issue for myself.
Summer Sucks!
post #20 of 24
Good replies and discussion here, Youngblood. Welcome to EpicSki!

As an instructor, I've been an Elan fan and rep for about 15 years now, so you should consider that I may be a little biased here.

That said, the Mantis 12 is an excellent all-mountain ski for a strong skier, with enough ski performance to work well on-piste too. The M10 is a great ski too--same shape, but considerably softer. I love it in soft snow, but I thought the 2002-3 version of the M10, was a little soft for high performance on harder conditions. Next year's M10 incorporates a layer of metal in the mid-section, which should give it substantially more "beef" on piste than the metal-free 2002-3 version.

Both the M10 and M12 will come in two versions next season--a "traditional" version, and the new "Fusion" system that incorporates a special Marker binding mounted on floating tracks, essentially INSIDE the ski. This system provides a very direct connection to the edges, and floats to allow the ski to flex completely freely beneath the boot and binding. The two skis have considerably different feels--some love the new Fusion system, others prefer the feel of the traditional version.

And there's another new ski that you may be interested in, in the Elan line. The "S" line--which also includes an S10 and a higher-performance, stiffer S12. Also a great all-mountain ski, the S-series is slightly narrower waisted with a little more sidecut than the M-series, so it performs even better on-piste (while perhaps sacrificing a LITTLE bit of "float" in the soft and deep). It, too, will come in standard and "Fusion" versions.

I skied the Mantis 10 this season in 176cm (I am just over 6' and light, and tend to ski fast). I got a pair of next year's S12's this spring in 168cm, and fell instantly in love with them. They're pretty beefy, so they're not particularly forgiving off piste, but it may be the best all-around ski I've ever skied.

If you really want an off-piste performer, take a look at the Mantis 777. It is wider and considerably softer than the M12 and M10, with a hand-built vertical sidewall laminated construction (like top race skis). It is a surprising performer on groomed snow, but truly phenomenal when it gets soft.

Both the Mantis and the S fall into the category of skis that most major manufacturers do pretty well. There are lots of great all-around skis out there these days! But at least to me, nothing else feels quite like an Elan.

More information than you probably needed....



Best regards,
Bob Barnes
post #21 of 24
Bob, thanks for your input, I will make sure my friend who is also an insturctor reads your reply. When we demoed the Elans at Okemo during the "Mary Davis Demo Day" in March she was also impressed with the M10.

[ July 02, 2003, 06:14 AM: Message edited by: smithby ]
post #22 of 24
Thread Starter 
Bob Barnes,
Thanks for all the input on the Elans. I was wondering if the Marker 1400 or 1200 piston bindings would be compatible with the M12 or even the 777. I am thinking it would really help with the on-piste aspects of both skis, but I wasn't sure if either of those already had a plate on them. Thanks again,
youngblood
post #23 of 24
Hi YB--

Yes, Marker's 1400 and 1200 piston bindings are compatible--I have the 1400 on my S12's and most of my other skis, and they work very well. Of course, if you opt for the "Fusion" model, it requires a proprietary Marker binding that comes with the system.

Best regards,
Bob

[ July 02, 2003, 03:45 PM: Message edited by: Bob Barnes/Colorado ]
post #24 of 24
Quote:
Originally posted by Bob Barnes/Colorado:
Good replies and discussion here, Youngblood. Welcome to EpicSki!

As an instructor, I've been an Elan fan and rep for about 15 years now, so you should consider that I may be a little biased here.

That said, the Mantis 12 is an excellent all-mountain ski for a strong skier, with enough ski performance to work well on-piste too. The M10 is a great ski too--same shape, but considerably softer. I love it in soft snow, but I thought the 2002-3 version of the M10, was a little soft for high performance on harder conditions. Next year's M10 incorporates a layer of metal in the mid-section, which should give it substantially more "beef" on piste than the metal-free 2002-3 version.

Both the M10 and M12 will come in two versions next season--a "traditional" version, and the new "Fusion" system that incorporates a special Marker binding mounted on floating tracks, essentially INSIDE the ski. This system provides a very direct connection to the edges, and floats to allow the ski to flex completely freely beneath the boot and binding. The two skis have considerably different feels--some love the new Fusion system, others prefer the feel of the traditional version.

And there's another new ski that you may be interested in, in the Elan line. The "S" line--which also includes an S10 and a higher-performance, stiffer S12. Also a great all-mountain ski, the S-series is slightly narrower waisted with a little more sidecut than the M-series, so it performs even better on-piste (while perhaps sacrificing a LITTLE bit of "float" in the soft and deep). It, too, will come in standard and "Fusion" versions.

I skied the Mantis 10 this season in 176cm (I am just over 6' and light, and tend to ski fast). I got a pair of next year's S12's this spring in 168cm, and fell instantly in love with them. They're pretty beefy, so they're not particularly forgiving off piste, but it may be the best all-around ski I've ever skied.

If you really want an off-piste performer, take a look at the Mantis 777. It is wider and considerably softer than the M12 and M10, with a hand-built vertical sidewall laminated construction (like top race skis). It is a surprising performer on groomed snow, but truly phenomenal when it gets soft.

Both the Mantis and the S fall into the category of skis that most major manufacturers do pretty well. There are lots of great all-around skis out there these days! But at least to me, nothing else feels quite like an Elan.

More information than you probably needed....



Best regards,
Bob Barnes
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