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MA me too!!!

post #1 of 22
Thread Starter 

Inspired by all that have put there heads on the chopping block before me. I would like to invite any and all to offer their advice as to how I can improve on my short turns. I am currently a CSIA 3 and am actively seeking continued training to reach the Canadian L4 standard.

 

Thanking you all in advance, I think???

 

 

post #2 of 22

You might have a hard time finding people who can MA at this level, so hopefully we see the big guns come out soon. Just for fun I'll do an MA; take it with a grain of salt!  

 

When the camera has you in frame, I see great separation and turning with the lower joints, you were balanced on edges, your legs were steering independently throughout the entire turn, and you managed pressure effectively. Very, very few dead spots between turns (I think I saw one turn where the skis weren't consistently turning through the transition). Well done! 

 

In the first few turns while you were mostly out of frame, your CoM looked to me like it was pretty far inside for the amount of forces you were able to work with (you may have felt more weight over the inside ski). Also looked like some pretty aggressive edging for the speed, and less flow. I suspect if you straightline it a bit longer before making your first turn, you'll have some momentum to work with. Alternately you could make shallower, lower performance turns for your first few turns. 

 

Nice turns!

post #3 of 22

Dchan - you wanted high level MA practice!

 

Tek - can you edit that clip down to the 16-22 second section and post the raw video (mpg?) as an attachment? What's your alignment situation (especially the right foot)? You know at this level, you should be able to do your own MA?

 

I've got some thoughts but golf is calling at the moment. Key issue is what movement starts the next turn. Wonder what Rollo and Dude have to say?

post #4 of 22

Agreed, alignment may explain the lower leg positions. I suspect some additional inside half separation is an area worth exploring. Same goes for abduction of the inside knee / leg...

Too busy to do a complete MA but I would start there...

post #5 of 22
So Tek, what are you working on? Where does your skiing break down? What do you do best?
post #6 of 22
Thread Starter 

Justanotherskipro

 

I am working on trying to create more symmetry with my legs throughout the entire arc. Loss the a-frame and create even edging.

My skiing breaks down in the icy bumps and super giant steep bumps. Lose the balance and rhythm.

I think I ski powder or soft snow conditions best, turn shape not an issue.

 

The alignment thing may be an issue. I have foot beds and have had the cuff boot alignment done. Have never been properly canted though. I will have to wait until next fall and research a good boot fitter to do so.

 

Thanks for your interest.

post #7 of 22

Tek, are you over-pronating when walking/running? 

post #8 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamt View Post

Tek, are you over-pronating when walking/running? 

I will tell you this. The soles of my shoes always wear unevenly. More wear on the inside of the heals. What does that mean?

post #9 of 22

Tek, obviously the low hanging fruit here is setting up your boots properly. Lateral alignment alone doesn't address all of ways boot set ups can influence your performance though. Too levered forward might be an issue worth investigating. I'm sure a fitter in your area can help you with all of that. Beyond the equipment, I see a sequential edge change occurring and that may not be curable by changing your set up alone. Yes it may be a work around you developed because of the boots but it also suggests the sequential edge change might just be because you are rushing to start the new turn while hanging onto the old turn at the same time. That's working at crossed purposes and if you watch your new outside half and your old outside lower leg and you will see this pretty clearly. See all but the stance leg enter the new turn before you abduct that knee and change that edge? You have stepped off the ski so it's edge has released but the actual edge change occurs later. The good news is re-setting the timing and using tipping to release the old turn is a pretty easy fix. It still takes a lot of patience and focus to re-program the timing of your edge changes though.

Drill wise a few easy drills will encourage a cleaner release using tipping rather than stepping. Sideslips on one ski target exactly this issue. If you find yourself trying to change pressure (reduce it with an up or down unweighting move) it should tell you that you haven't tipped the ski flat enough for the edge to release naturally. It doesn't need to get completely flat to the snow, just flat enough to lose edge purchase. Remember that a side slip doesn't include any rotary though and at first resist the urge to pivot the ski in any way. Eventually allowing the tip to dive into the turn will occur but for now concentrate on the tip to release idea. BTW, the more advanced form of this one footed sideslip is to do them on the shallowest terrain you can find. So start out on a blue run and work your way to doing them on shallower terrain. That may seem counter intuitive but  it's usually an epiphany for our coaches when they realize just how difficult it is to do this drill on very shallow terrain.

Another good focus drill is to notice what you do when starting from a stop, or getting off a lift. From a stop do you flatten the inside ski and allow Gravity to pull you downhill, or do you tip the outside ski onto a higher edge and push off that edge platform. When you get off a lift do you roll the inside ski onto it's little toe edge and let it draw you towards where you wish to go?

Play with these ideas and I am sure they will reveal to you just how your releases and edge changes occur at different times.

 

A more active drill is to do White Pass Turns but it's easy to cheat and use pressure control for the release instead of reducing the edge angle until purchase is lost. So wait on that drill until you own the tip to release move. An intermediate step would be to start doing the tip to release move from a traverse and allow the ski to dive into the new turn.

 

Beyond that I think replacing the pressure control release and extremely active foot to foot weight transfer with more consistent pressure and a tip to release move will open up the door to parallel shins and extending out to the side of the hill rather than upward. That in turn will allow you to use your leg steering more effectively as well. Eventually all of this leads to very swoopy feeling short turns and the trampoline like feeling Bob mentioned in another thread. From what I've seen in the Whistler training vids that is something the CSIA 4's do so much better than the 3's.

post #10 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tek Head View Post

I will tell you this. The soles of my shoes always wear unevenly. More wear on the inside of the heals. What does that mean?

Could be posture and pelvic position causing you to be knock kneed, could be natural Q angles, could be ankle / sub talar joint issues and it could even be in the foot itself. It's really hard to say on the web.

post #11 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tek Head View Post

I will tell you this. The soles of my shoes always wear unevenly. More wear on the inside of the heals. What does that mean?

OOOPS! wrong way.. My runners seem to be wearing on the outside of the heals first. Notice the pics of an old pair I retired.

What do you think? Is this the fix? Am thinking a correction is necessary. The Boot or a binding plate? Any ideas?

post #12 of 22

Looks sort of normal Tek. That doesn't mean doing more boot work isn't needed. Take that issue out of the mix by working with a good boot fitter. We simply cannot do that for you here.

 

Then again once all of that is done, the only excuse is pilot error. As it should be.

 

I thought of a dry land training activity. Stand and balance on a one foot (ski stance) and move your stance knee laterally (away from center). What else occurs. Do you twist your shoulders, or anything else? How about your arms? If you do any of that reprogram things until you can move that knee without any of that. Eventually stand on a two inch thick foam pad, or a basu ball and do the same activity. Then next fall do this on skis.

post #13 of 22

Overpronation often means you need to raise the inside. Don´t know if that is your problem but it is likely and you should see a good fitter.

post #14 of 22
Thread Starter 

K. guys thanks a lot.

 

Yes a good boot fitter will help, I hope.

Most of the correction will have to be me. I will practice these movement suggested earlier and hopefully they stick will me when the snow flies again.

 

Cheers gents

Thanks again for your responses

 

Any other ideas????

post #15 of 22

Hey Tek,

 

Nice rhythmical short turns.

 

I agree with much of what has been said above. The most obvious symptom is the rotation of the hip which doesn't allow for much angulation towards the end of the turn.

 

The fore/aft boot alignment could be part of the cause by locking up the ankle and in turn making pivoting more difficult. In addition JASP mentioned the lack of ability to flatten the skis in transition and gave some good ideas for drills to work on that. Perhaps some super slow motion short turns could also help with that. If you can keep your skis parallel and change edges simultaneously while going super slow on mellow terrain (without some crazy up unweighting move) it should give you a good idea whether you can roll the skis to flat properly.

post #16 of 22

I have several questions.  

 

1.  In what way is Rotary Push Off (RPO - considered a no-no) different from old inside leg extension (ILE - not necessarily considered a no-no).  

2.  How can a person doing MA see the difference between RPO and ILE?  

3.  How can a skier recognize whether they are doing one or the other?

4.  Do people on this thread see Tek Head doing RPO or ILE?

 

My trainers at my mountain  (PSIA all the way) this last year worked with us all to begin the turn by extending off the old inside ski in order to get earlier and higher edge engagement.  I think of this as ILE.

post #17 of 22

LF   

 

Quote:

1.  In what way is Rotary Push Off (RPO - considered a no-no) different from old inside leg extension (ILE - not necessarily considered a no-no).  

2.  How can a person doing MA see the difference between RPO and ILE?  

3.  How can a skier recognize whether they are doing one or the other?

4.  Do people on this thread see Tek Head doing RPO or ILE?

 

The difference is in hip/pelvis alignment.  RPO occurs when the hip/pelvis is used to guide the skis rather than leg steering.  When the hip/pelvis is rotated inside the turn you can't change edges until it has been realigned.  So when you extend your inside leg you have to push off it to rotate your hip/pelvis downhill to allow for edge change.  

     When the hip/pelvis remains aligned to the outside of the turn(counter/anticipation/seperation)(skis turned more than hip/pelvis) and leg steering is used to guide the skis, you can change edges at any time.  

     Look at the hip alignment through the turn, and when the skier can effectively pressure the ski.  If the hip is aligned to the inside of the turn(skis turned less than hip/pelvis) and pressure comes later in most cases it is RPO.  If the hip is aligned to the outside of the turn(skis turned more than hip/pelvis) and pressure comes early, before the fall line, it is through leg steering.

     Skiers need to be able to feel when they are steering their legs independent of the hip/pelvis, to be able to recognize when they are using RPO or not.

     I see Tek Head using RPO.

     Remember that flexion and extension have nothing to do with edge change, they effect pressure.  Either may happen at the same time as edge change but they are a seperate movement form the edge change itself.  A simple test to prove this is do traverse, flex and extend while in that traverse.  Do you change you edge angle.  If not then the edge change comes from somewhere else.

post #18 of 22

See that gap between your left elbow and your left hip? Don't let it get any bigger when you reach for a pole touch. Your upper body lean down the hill and the new inside leg bending forward are blocking tipping of both legs onto the new edges.

 

Put a pair of shorts on, get a front on picture of yourself in ski boots on the kitchen floor and post it in the bootfitter forum (and don't forget to apologize up front for the chicken legs!)

 

Regards,

Rusty

 

BTW I think the simultaneous edge change occurring where the legs are positioned is absolutely incredible. Do you have a problem with vertical pop in larger radius turns?

post #19 of 22
L1 articulation allows the hips to follow the skis. However just talking about the pelvis facing the outside does little to get the inside leg externally rotated. Javelin turns being a prime example of the pelvis facing the outside of a turn. But where is the inside knee and foot facing? External rotation of that inside leg and getting it facing inside the turn allows the pelvis to face outside and eliminates the hip twisting into the turn.
post #20 of 22

Tek, you are a great skier and I think that with some small modifications you could step it up a bit.

It is difficult to say what it the chicken and what is the egg, but the key issue as I see it is how you release.

Towards the end of the turn you have created quite some pressure, partly by pushing/rotating and partly by turn dynamics. I'd like to see less pushing and more angulation here (here is where the hip need to align so that you can do this). The added angulation will give you more pressure so that you don't have to push to get it, you can start the flexing/untipping a bit earlier instead.

Next in your turn the pressure you have created pushes you up so you flex the outside leg to limit this. However, instead of also relaxing the old inside it seems you have some pressure on it through  transition. This means the pressure starts quite early, but it is too early and the wrong kind of pressure, not caused by turn dynamics. If you instead have some patience, just skim the surface with this ski and don't start to tip it yet and let the extension of the old inside leg develop naturally as the CoM and skis diverge. Now when the pressure starts you will have more edge angle and the forces will grow faster naturally, setting you up in a position where you more easily can create the angles and angulation that I first mentioned for a better release.

I think this is more or less the same as JASP mentions, but from a different point of view.

 

I'm not familiar with any CSIA final forms, but when I see JF Beualieu and other great L4's I see more of what I tried to describe above.

post #21 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by justanotherskipro View Post

L1 articulation allows the hips to follow the skis. However just talking about the pelvis facing the outside does little to get the inside leg externally rotated. Javelin turns being a prime example of the pelvis facing the outside of a turn. But where is the inside knee and foot facing? External rotation of that inside leg and getting it facing inside the turn allows the pelvis to face outside and eliminates the hip twisting into the turn.

I really like the 'tip on top of tip' javelin for exactly the reasons and outcome you describe, JASP. You can only do it by guiding your inside knee into the new turn... It also helps maintains some functional ankle tension in the uphill foot as well.
post #22 of 22
Thread Starter 

Just got back from my non skiing job. I would like to THANK YOU all for your input. I read every comment word for word and have gave it time to process. It is great to see everyone is seeing to same thing and is on the same page. How I make the changes will be on going. I now have more insight from everyone's ideas.

 

First off ( thanks to The Rusty ) I will be posting a picture of my chicken legs on the Boot Fitting Forum.

Continue to read the feed back and visualize the movements that have been suggested.

 

Seems like the smallest of movements at the right time will make the biggest changes.

 

HI, I'm Steve A. (Tek Head) and I'm a rotator.        NEED TO GET THAT FIXED!!!

 

Cheers  

  beercheer.gif

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