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Are REI and BC.com killing the snowsports industry? - Page 10

post #271 of 302
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finndog View Post

Joe, I see your point about gear rarely used but what are you saying? I buy a gore-tex tent it sits in an super hot attic that ruins the material and it now leaks, should they take that back after a year? OR  I buy a sleeping bag and use it a couple of times one summer and then take it out the next summer and the zipper breaks it was purely a defect.  the NEW policy still covers that defective zipper. How does the new policy affect this kind of return/exchange?

 

So what example can you give me where you don't think this is fair? (I am trying to understand, not being an dick)

 

 

"REI’s guarantee doesn’t cover ordinary wear and tear or damage caused by improper use or accidents.

If your item has a manufacturing defect in its materials or workmanship, you can return it at any time." 

You mean after the tent sits in their ultra hot warehouse for months on end? Are you saying they shouldn't take it back after a year? Because that seems like a case where they definitely should, "guaranteed to keep you dry," and all. If they don't, Gore-Tex offers its own guarantee. 

 

Your examples are obscuring the obvious, however. I'm not necessarily talking about a situation where there is something fundamentally wrong with the product.

 

Example: I have a JetBoil stove that I bought a couple years ago. It's brand new, in the package, in a cool, shady garage. As far as I know, JetBoil stoves haven't been updated to the point that this model is obsolete. REI could probably sell it quickly for more than 50 percent off - it's a stove, not an outdated Android phone. Now, let's just say the stove won't light for my winter backpacking trips, ends up being too bulky for my pack, whatever. Before I could return it and buy a smaller/better/different stove. That was a big part of the attraction of shopping at REI. Now, I can't, and that attraction is gone.

 

A yearlong guarantee makes me feel okay if I'm using the item a lot right away, or want to abuse their policy, ride a snowboard for a season and return it next fall, but it doesn't make me feel that confident about more long-term (and expensive) purchases that see occasional use (tents, stoves, snowshoes, outerwear, highly sport specific footwear and clothing, etc.). In other words, it seems to leave the people that they claim caused problems unaffected while hurting more loyal customers. 

 

I'm not saying that I have some unalienable right to try out every purchase ever indefinitely and return it whenever, as crg seems to be ranting about. In fact, I rarely buy gear from REI and have never returned anything. Some manufacturers offer lifetime warranties, so the point is moot for a lot of gear, anyway. But people acting like the change is of no significance to the industry, especially if and when others start following suit, are fooling themselves with short-sighted thinking. REI does this and is still successful, expect others, and there are a number of others, to follow. Then expect them to cut that time frame back even more - six months, 120 days, one month ... Suddenly an industry that was built on the concept of being 100 percent comfortable and happy in your purchase is as crappy as every other industry in that regard and takes crg's ridiculous tack that customers should basically be embarrassed to return things. Maybe they'll even start pushing "outdoor gear insurance" at the register. 

post #272 of 302
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeUT View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Lee View Post

The point is that 50% doesn't make them their money back like you claimed above.  It's easy for people that aren't familiar with the business end of retail to go on about how retailers ought to run their business, but the truth is that few of those people have a good grasp on the nuts and bolts.  

 

Actually, it's easy, relevant and advisable for consumers to go on about business practices they like and don't like. I'm not telling anyone how they should run their business, just saying that I don't like the change or the transparent way they're spinning it. 

 

Stick to that and you'll do better.  

post #273 of 302
Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeUT View Post

 

Example: I have a JetBoil stove that I bought a couple years ago. It's brand new, in the package, in a cool, shady garage. As far as I know, JetBoil stoves haven't been updated to the point that this model is obsolete. REI could probably sell it quickly for more than 50 percent off - it's a stove, not an outdated Android phone. 

 

You could be wrong - Jetboil has updated.  Is it the same as any of these?

http://www.rei.com/search?query=jetboil

post #274 of 302
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Lee View Post

 

Stick to that and you'll do better.  

That's what I've been sticking to. My initial response was in regards to the prevailing wisdom that this policy doesn't change anything. It certainly does. 

 

As for the stove .. 

 

I realize models have updated, but not to the point of making mine obsolete. I can't recall the model name but it's a one-person integrated stove-cup combo, just like JetBoil continues to offer now. JetBoils have not really had any groundbreaking advances in the past couple years - unless you count adding a Hypercolor strip. A backpacker would scoop it up in seconds if REI were to sell it for $60 (I believe it was $100 when I bought it). 

post #275 of 302
Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeUT View Post

 

As for the stove .. 

 

I realize models have updated, but not to the point of making mine obsolete. I can't recall the model name but it's a one-person integrated stove-cup combo, just like JetBoil continues to offer now. JetBoils have not really had any groundbreaking advances in the past couple years - unless you count adding a Hypercolor strip. A backpacker would scoop it up in seconds if REI were to sell it for $60 (I believe it was $100 when I bought it). 

 

So it would only cost REI $40 to keep you happy on that one transaction?  You're not a cheap date.  

post #276 of 302
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Lee View Post

 

So it would only cost REI $40 to keep you happy on that one transaction?  You're not a cheap date.  

Well, I made no guarantees of that when REI wooed me and asked me to stop by its place.  But since it was hypothetical and I have no plans to return that stove, I guess I am a pretty cheap date. I'll just be going to the dance with someone else. 

post #277 of 302
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeUT View Post

I'll just be going to the dance with someone else. 

You'll get no argument from me on that.
post #278 of 302

Stores with no question asked lifetime guarantee must charge more for their goods to make up for the loss. I'm glad REI quit that foolishness. The new policy is much more reasonable. Maybe I'll get a bigger dividend next year. :)

post #279 of 302
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeUT View Post
Suddenly an industry that was built on the concept of being 100 percent comfortable and happy in your purchase is as crappy as every other industry in that regard and takes crg's ridiculous tack that customers should basically be embarrassed to return things. Maybe they'll even start pushing "outdoor gear insurance" at the register. 

After over a month, maybe.  After two months, probably unless there is a really good reason like out of the country or in a coma.  After a year or clearly used expecting full original purchase credit? redface.gifredface.gifredface.gif

post #280 of 302

Crg, I can't help but think that you are being a bit unreasonable here...  The return policy has always been an instrument of encouraging sales, and apparently it has worked with great success.  JoeUT bought the JetBoil stove he didn't need, his money were sitting at REI for a year, and they could do whatever they wanted with that money, add up a lot of those just in case purchases, and you get a nice interest-free credit for REI.  The price of the return policy has been always built into the markup.  Why do you think a GoreTex jacket costs $500?  It does not cost nearly as much to make, even in Canada or US, you are paying for lifetime warranty (most people won't be using it, but the peace of mind is a powerful incentive).  Same here with REI.  But somehow I doubt the prices there will drop to Walmart level or that your dividend will go up.

 

Restrictive return policies generally discourage sales.  If we all just buy what we need, the economy will tank reeeally fast... Its a consumer society after all...  And a gear whore message boardwink.gif

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post

After over a month, maybe.  After two months, probably unless there is a really good reason like out of the country or in a coma.  After a year or clearly used expecting full original purchase credit? redface.gifredface.gifredface.gif

post #281 of 302
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexzn View Post

his money were sitting at REI for a year, and they could do whatever they wanted with that money, add up a lot of those just in case purchases, and you get a nice interest-free credit for REI.

It might not be that simple. A lifetime warranty at the sole discretion of the customer technically means a sale never closes. At a certain percent of gross sales, this could create a revenue recognition problem in reporting financials. You could create quite a fake financial model by selling a great deal of stuff that is fully refunded in another financial reporting period.

That line is likely where this stops being about customer service.
post #282 of 302

Joe, I see what you are saying, just take it back because you don't want it anymore?  I would have to think that model for sporting goods is not a good one anymore.  That's not a warranty for sure.  I don't know if that was the intent in the first place. 

 

So you are advocating wearing sneakers for a year and then returning them for a new pair after you wore them, enjoyed them and used them for their intended lifespan for a new pair?

 

You are advocating buying a bike, then after you crash it and break the frame, returning it to REI for a full refund or new bike

 

Using a pair of skis for 3 seasons, then returning them after 100 days because you want a new model

 

 

BTW- warehouses that store and stage goods for transportation are not anywhere as hot or humid as what it gets in an attic.( now your getting into my area of expertise) and temperatures over 120* in attics are not uncommon. I wouldn't want to buy your used tent after it sat in those temps and I would hope that REI wouldn't sell that to me. That would change my opinion on REI more than anything.

 

Good article here http://blogs.denverpost.com/travel/2013/06/04/rei-return-policy-changes-1-year-purchase/12422/?source=rsshomeblog


Edited by Finndog - 6/6/13 at 4:06am
post #283 of 302
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexzn View Post

Crg, I can't help but think that you are being a bit unreasonable here...  The return policy has always been an instrument of encouraging sales, and apparently it has worked with great success.  JoeUT bought the JetBoil stove he didn't need, his money were sitting at REI for a year, and they could do whatever they wanted with that money, add up a lot of those just in case purchases, and you get a nice interest-free credit for REI.  The price of the return policy has been always built into the markup.  Why do you think a GoreTex jacket costs $500?  It does not cost nearly as much to make, even in Canada or US, you are paying for lifetime warranty (most people won't be using it, but the peace of mind is a powerful incentive).  Same here with REI.  But somehow I doubt the prices there will drop to Walmart level or that your dividend will go up.

 

Restrictive return policies generally discourage sales.  If we all just buy what we need, the economy will tank reeeally fast... Its a consumer society after all...  And a gear whore message boardwink.gif

 

 do some research and you will see that gortex charges manufacturers a premium to use their products but that profit is realized by the Gortex people not the retailer. the lifetime warranty cost is built into the product but its based on a project limited % of exchanges (note not refunds) and repairs but again, this is a build-in to the manufacturer not the retailer.  This is based on the consumer directly returning the product to the manufacturer, not to the retailer for processing and handling (cost) 

 

 

The retailer will have buyback deals with the vendors like walmart and others do.  The money for that stove didn't sit anywhere; that revenue was spent or allocated long ago. the profit all said and done was probably in the 5-8% range.

 

 

BTW- here are the earnings for REI

 

"The outdoor gear retailer posted net income of $29 million in 2012, compared to net income of $30.1 million in 2011. Net sales, meanwhile, increased 7.4 percent to $1.9 billion, from net sales of $1.79 billion in 2011."

post #284 of 302

And again, I'm all for the occasional need to purchase something and take it home to check a few things with the understanding that it can be returned if it doesn't do what you need it to.  However, I don't think it is within the reasonable citizen fiduciary duty to act like purchasing something gives you the right to keep it in your possession for months and months then expect to get a full refund like the purchase price was some fully refundable deposit regardless of how long you keep it.  That is like renting something for 3 months and never paying a cent of actual rent regardless of if you use it or not.  It doesn't matter if you use it or not, you got to keep it for several months rent free.  Totally not cool..

post #285 of 302
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finndog View Post

BTW- here are the earnings for REI

 

"The outdoor gear retailer posted net income of $29 million in 2012, compared to net income of $30.1 million in 2011. Net sales, meanwhile, increased 7.4 percent to $1.9 billion, from net sales of $1.79 billion in 2011."

 

Pretty slim return on sales. I have several bike parts that I bought for a build a couple years ago that I decided ultimately not to do. I'd be embarassed to ask the seller to take them back simply because I changed my mind. I'll either use them in the future, sell them, or give them to a bike co-op. If you don't like a retailer's prices, product selection, or policies, don't shop there. End of story.
post #286 of 302
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finndog View Post

Joe, I see what you are saying, just take it back because you don't want it anymore?  I would have to think that model for sporting goods is not a good one anymore.  That's not a warranty for sure.  I don't know if that was the intent in the first place. 

 

So you are advocating wearing sneakers for a year and then returning them for a new pair after you wore them, enjoyed them and used them for their intended lifespan for a new pair?

 

You are advocating buying a bike, then after you crash it and break the frame, returning it to REI for a full refund or new bike

 

Using a pair of skis for 3 seasons, then returning them after 100 days because you want a new model

 

 

BTW- warehouses that store and stage goods for transportation are not anywhere as hot or humid as what it gets in an attic.( now your getting into my area of expertise) and temperatures over 120* in attics are not uncommon. I wouldn't want to buy your used tent after it sat in those temps and I would hope that REI wouldn't sell that to me. That would change my opinion on REI more than anything.

 

Good article here http://blogs.denverpost.com/travel/2013/06/04/rei-return-policy-changes-1-year-purchase/12422/?source=rsshomeblog

We're missing each other somewhere. I'm not talking about using a product and then suddenly growing tired of it or wanting an upgrade. I'm talking about a product that you use rarely and it takes a while to realize it just doesn't work. Products not working for you is why they offered that satisfaction guarantee to begin with. You can't test outdoor gear on a showroom floor.

 

So in your shoe example, let's say you buy a $300 pair of backpacking boots - that's a big buy as far as footwear goes, so you want something that really works. You take one three-day trip and they work great. But you're a casual backpacker and that's the only trip you take that summer. The following summer, you do a weeklong trip and the boots give you horrible blisters and just don't work at all. Or the uppers get ripped to shreds under normal use. In the past, you could have returned them to REI and found something better, no questions asked. Now you can't. You can do all the research you want, but it really comes down to using things in the field, and in some cases, it's a process that happens over a longer time period. 

 

Sure that's a fringe example and not likely to affect many REI customers. And, no, REI and other retailers are under no obligation to offer such generous returns. But that's the type of guarantee that REI and others have established as the industry norm for decades upon decades. And a lot of people shop exclusively at REI, Backcountry, EMS, etc. because of it. A yearlong limit is absolutely a big change and foretells a potential huge industry shift. The outdoor industry was the absolute peak of customer satisfaction, now it's likely to shift more toward the mainstream. Maybe it's inevitable, but I'm not going to celebrate it. 

 

As for the bike, outside extreme negligence (e.g. the bike fell off your car and got run over or it fell off a 2,000-foot cliff), I would definitely expect either REI or the manufacturer to cover that for more than a year. A bike is a major investment and the frame shouldn't break. 

 

And I can't stress enough that I'm not arguing about this from a personal standpoint. Not only do I rarely shop at REI, but I have access to pro deals for dozens of outdoor companies for pretty much all major types of gear. I get a lot of my gear for free, too. I just don't like to see the industry moving away from where it's been pretty much always. Customer service/satisfaction is diminishing in all kinds of industries, it was nice having one where it was bulletproof. It just got shot. 

post #287 of 302
Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post

And again, I'm all for the occasional need to purchase something and take it home to check a few things with the understanding that it can be returned if it doesn't do what you need it to.  However, I don't think it is within the reasonable citizen fiduciary duty to act like purchasing something gives you the right to keep it in your possession for months and months then expect to get a full refund like the purchase price was some fully refundable deposit regardless of how long you keep it.  That is like renting something for 3 months and never paying a cent of actual rent regardless of if you use it or not.  It doesn't matter if you use it or not, you got to keep it for several months rent free.  Totally not cool..

Except that the industry established that, not the reasonable citizen. That's the only reason the consumer has come to expect it and taking it away is a major step in reverse. That's really all there is to it. It may not affect you, but it definitely affects others. I may be against the grain here, but my sentiments have been echoed elsewhere. 

 

And REI, not to mention Backcountry, LL Bean, EMS and other companies that haven't eliminated their lifetime guarantees (yet), still disagree with you. 

post #288 of 302

REI updated its return policy

 

[quote]

100% Satisfaction Guaranteed

We stand behind everything we sell. If you are not satisfied with your REI purchase, you can return it for a replacement or refund. Items must be returned within a year of purchase, except items purchased from REI-OUTLET which must be returned within 30 days of purchase.[/quote]

 

More info:

http://seattletimes.com/html/businesstechnology/2021116265_reireturnsxml.html


Edited by tanscrazydaisy - 6/6/13 at 12:09pm
post #289 of 302
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeUT View Post


And I can't stress enough that I'm not arguing about this from a personal standpoint. Not only do I rarely shop at REI, but I have access to pro deals for dozens of outdoor companies for pretty much all major types of gear. I get a lot of my gear for free, too. I just don't like to see the industry moving away from where it's been pretty much always. Customer service/satisfaction is diminishing in all kinds of industries, it was nice having one where it was bulletproof. It just got shot. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeUT View Post

Except that the industry established that, not the reasonable citizen. That's the only reason the consumer has come to expect it and taking it away is a major step in reverse. That's really all there is to it. It may not affect you, but it definitely affects others. I may be against the grain here, but my sentiments have been echoed elsewhere. 

 

And REI, not to mention Backcountry, LL Bean, EMS and other companies that haven't eliminated their lifetime guarantees (yet), still disagree with you. 

 

 

You know, just because you "can" do something within a store's policy doesn't mean it is always appropriate or morally right to do so. 

 

Many MANY years ago I worked in the luggage industry and the people that worked at the various specialty boutique stores got quite a bit of top end merchandise for sales awards.  The program was intended to get the product in the hands of the people selling it so they could better relate to the high end luggage customer and have solid experience using products they wouldn't be able to afford ordinarily working in a retail mall job.  There were a handful of people that boasted about taking the new, unused items to big, top end department stores and exchanging it for sporting goods, clothing, whatever.  Sure, it was within the department store policy to allow exchanges without a receipt, a policy designed to enhance customer service for people that likely bought the item but lost the receipt.  Sure, they are aware that folks would also bring in items that might have even been stolen and exchange them for other things, but they don't lose out that much unless people are bringing in outdated items.

 

That stove you give as a 2+ year old exchange example, did you buy it from REI, or did you get it at some kind of large discount elsewhere? 

post #290 of 302
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeUT View Post

I guess that's what the other hundreds and thousands of items that they sell is for? Retailers already sell old overstock goods at under cost, yet still manage to make a profit. 

 

This is an awfully rosy view.  You can't sell very much stuff under cost and turn a profit, since you're also paying for all the overhead of selling, storing, (maybe) shipping, etc. the item twice.

 

Last year (http://www.rei.com/about-rei/financial-information.html), REI had $1.930B in sales, with the "cost of sales" listed as $1.128B.  Taking no overhead into account, that looks like a 71% profit margin on average.  (Obviously the actual margin varies hugely from item to item.)  But their payroll was $351M, other operating expenses were $318M, and they paid out $89M in member dividends.  So they only made $44.5M before taxes on $1.930B in sales -- about a 2% net margin.

 

I'm not sure exactly where they account for the cost of returns in there (it may be under either "cost of sales" or "other operating expenses").  But roughly speaking, just breaking even on about an additional 5% of their sales would wipe out all their profits, as would taking a total loss on about 2% of them.

post #291 of 302
Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post

 

 

 

You know, just because you "can" do something within a store's policy doesn't mean it is always appropriate or morally right to do so. 

 

Many MANY years ago I worked in the luggage industry and the people that worked at the various specialty boutique stores got quite a bit of top end merchandise for sales awards.  The program was intended to get the product in the hands of the people selling it so they could better relate to the high end luggage customer and have solid experience using products they wouldn't be able to afford ordinarily working in a retail mall job.  There were a handful of people that boasted about taking the new, unused items to big, top end department stores and exchanging it for sporting goods, clothing, whatever.  Sure, it was within the department store policy to allow exchanges without a receipt, a policy designed to enhance customer service for people that likely bought the item but lost the receipt.  Sure, they are aware that folks would also bring in items that might have even been stolen and exchange them for other things, but they don't lose out that much unless people are bringing in outdated items.

 

That stove you give as a 2+ year old exchange example, did you buy it from REI, or did you get it at some kind of large discount elsewhere? 

You're just getting farther out there now. REI made that policy so that you could do exactly what I said. If it didn't want people doing that, it would have limited it to a year, six months, 30 days, whatever a long time ago. Or limited it to gear in new condition. Or with the tags still on. 

 

If you can't get that through your head, here's Backcountry's policy, which was designed to compete with existing players like REI. It did customers the service of leaving 0 ambiguity:  

 

 

 

Quote:
Not stoked on your gear? Looking to return it or make an exchange? No problem, we have an Unlimited Return Policy: we guarantee complete satisfaction and an unlimited lifetime warranty. If at any time -- now, next month, in 30 years -- you're not 100% satisfied, send your gear back for a full refund. No questions asked

Unlimited returns. Unlimited lifetime warranty. 30 years. No mincing words. That's what the policy is for. Period. 

post #292 of 302
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthias99 View Post

 

This is an awfully rosy view.  You can't sell very much stuff under cost and turn a profit, since you're also paying for all the overhead of selling, storing, (maybe) shipping, etc. the item twice.

 

Last year (http://www.rei.com/about-rei/financial-information.html), REI had $1.930B in sales, with the "cost of sales" listed as $1.128B.  Taking no overhead into account, that looks like a 71% profit margin on average.  (Obviously the actual margin varies hugely from item to item.)  But their payroll was $351M, other operating expenses were $318M, and they paid out $89M in member dividends.  So they only made $44.5M before taxes on $1.930B in sales -- about a 2% net margin.

 

I'm not sure exactly where they account for the cost of returns in there (it may be under either "cost of sales" or "other operating expenses").  But roughly speaking, just breaking even on about an additional 5% of their sales would wipe out all their profits, as would taking a total loss on about 2% of them.

wouldn't the 89m in dividends be part of the profits--being returned to the member/owner's?  Should I have included my dividend on my taxes?

post #293 of 302
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeUT View Post

You're just getting farther out there now. REI made that policy so that you could do exactly what I said. If it didn't want people doing that, it would have limited it to a year, six months, 30 days, whatever a long time ago. Or limited it to gear in new condition. Or with the tags still on.

Again, just because they invite you to be able to do something doesn't mean it's cool to do it.

 

Did or didn't you buy the stove from REI? 

 

 

 

Quote:
Not stoked on your gear? Looking to return it or make an exchange? No problem, we have an Unlimited Return Policy: we guarantee complete satisfaction and an unlimited lifetime warranty. If at any time -- now, next month, in 30 years -- you're not 100% satisfied, send your gear back for a full refund. No questions asked

Awesome, everyone that rolls that way can just take all their REI (and every other main brand store sold)  do-overs back to Backcountry!  Sweet!  They're going to get pounded with REI's stuff now LOL!

post #294 of 302
Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post

Again, just because they invite you to be able to do something doesn't mean it's cool to do it.

 

Did or didn't you buy the stove from REI? 

 

 

 

Awesome, everyone that rolls that way can just take all their REI (and every other main brand store sold)  do-overs back to Backcountry!  Sweet!  They're going to get pounded with REI's stuff now LOL!

Did you read that over? It really makes no sense. 

 

Actually those folks will certainly just take their business directly to Backcountry, which is better than REI anyway. From my experience, its prices are better, its selection for a lot of gears is better and its network of sites and deals is better. And of course, it's return policy is now better too. There's an online process for returning an item, so I assume you need to enter your account information to do so. 

post #295 of 302
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldgoat View Post

wouldn't the 89m in dividends be part of the profits--being returned to the member/owner's? 

 

Well... yes, sort of, but then you'd have to think about what amount of sales they wouldn't have gotten without the dividend, and how up in arms the members would be if they had to reduce the dividend payouts so as not to bleed money.  One way to think about it (although certainly not the only way) is that the dividend is basically an advertising/promotional expense.  It increases sales, hopefully by more than the amount they pay out.  Even if it breaks even or they lose a little bit directly, it builds brand loyalty.

 

The way they list it on the financials is that they compute net profit (gross - cost - payroll - expenses), then subtract the dividend payouts, then what's left (~44.5M last year) is the corporate profit they paid taxes on.

 

Quote:
Should I have included my dividend on my taxes?

 

AFAIK no, but I'm not a tax professional.  In theory it's a rebate/discount on something you bought with after-tax dollars, it just gets paid out in a lump sum once a year.  If you buy groceries and get $10 off because you clipped coupons, you didn't make an extra $10 in "income", you just spent less of your already-taxed money.

 

It may be different if you're deducting expenses, though.  If you bought something for $100 and later got $25 back on the purchase as a rebate, you couldn't really deduct the full $100 as an expense -- the item only had a net cost to you of $75.

post #296 of 302
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeUT View Post

Did you read that over? It really makes no sense. 

 

 

 

Quote:
Again, just because they invite you to be able to do something doesn't mean it's cool to do it.

 

 

Make sense now?

 

 

If the sign says "Ample Parking"?
 

 

 

Not illegal, not against policy, many do it, still not cool.

post #297 of 302

Not really. 

 

We already established that it's possible to abuse REI's policy. My examples have been about using the policy for what it's for.

 

Think about it like eating your fill at the buffet in a normal mealtime sitting, if it helps illustrate things in a way that's more familiar. Do you also only go up to the buffet one time because you believe any more is taking advantage of the restaurant owner? 

post #298 of 302
Do you guys really think that REI, a big multistate corporation gives a damn about whether you are a douchebag or not? They are not a church but a for profit business. As long as their return policy encourage people to buy stuff they did not need that was good for business. I am sure they have a few mba's who crunched the numbers and decided that it was not worth it for the company anymore.

The Chineese buffet owner from the photo in the previous post is an idiot. If I see this sign- my first thought would be that the people who own the business are grumpy self-righteous a$$holes and I would rather eat somewhere else. Probably lost more sales on that than they saved on over consumed food. And it's good to keep people inside longer because they keep drinking, and that's extra $.
post #299 of 302
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexzn View Post


The Chineese buffet owner from the photo in the previous post is an idiot. If I see this sign- my first thought would be that the people who own the business are grumpy self-righteous a$$holes and I would rather eat somewhere else. Probably lost more sales on that than they saved on over consumed food. And it's good to keep people inside longer because they keep drinking, and that's extra $.

They don't serve alcohol at the Wicked Wok but they do offer free refills on soft drinks.  Not sure what else they serve there..'

 

post #300 of 302
Quote:
The Chineese buffet owner from the photo in the previous post is an idiot. If I see this sign- my first thought would be that the people who own the business are grumpy self-righteous a$$holes and I would rather eat somewhere else. Probably lost more sales on that than they saved on over consumed food. And it's good to keep people inside longer because they keep drinking, and that's extra $.

 

CREATOR: gd-jpeg v1.0 (using IJG JPEG v62), quality = 75

 

Somebody been having fun and fooling Epic Users ????

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