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Should beginner and novice skiers flex their ankles?

post #1 of 24
Thread Starter 

I fashioned the question, inspired by" Do Experts And Racers Flex Their Ankles?" And if so, where and how? Also Why?

post #2 of 24

hissyfit.gif

 

Is there no end to this madness?

 

Should isn't a good word for this.  It should be Do or Why.  I say this because we just added 5 pages of debate to the other thread after everyone nodded last year.  Should gets answered the same way the other thread does and I think it is the same answer.


Edited by L&AirC - 4/29/13 at 7:08pm
post #3 of 24

waiting for the next 10 pages on this popcorn.gif

post #4 of 24

Only if they desire to ski like USST WC tech racers. If they want to ski like CSIA instructors [Skidude] then they should plantarflex and wonder why they have thigh burn. devil.gif

post #5 of 24

FacePalm.jpg

 

  zenny

post #6 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by NECoach View Post

Only if they desire to ski like USST WC tech racers. If they want to ski like CSIA instructors [Skidude] then they should plantarflex and wonder why they have thigh burn. devil.gif

 

I highly doubt the CSIA doesn't believe in dorsiflexing to stay centred.  They certainly advocate functional skiing, and functional bending of joint would include both dorsiflexing and plantarflexing depending on where you are in the turn

 

lol bendz ze kneezz!

It should not be different goals for beginner vs experts in terms of functional bending in lower body joints.

 

Believe it or not experts work on improving the same skills as beginners that is stance and balance, turning with lower body, edging, pressure control, timing etc.  

 

The better the skier, the more likely that there are still some minor stance issues and then separation issues.  

post #7 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by jthski View Post

I highly doubt the CSIA doesn't believe in dorsiflexing to stay centred.  They certainly advocate functional skiing, and functional bending of joint would include both dorsiflexing and plantarflexing depending on where you are in the turn

lol bendz ze kneezz!

It should not be different goals for beginner vs experts in terms of functional bending in lower body joints.

Believe it or not experts work on improving the same skills as beginners that is stance and balance, turning with lower body, edging, pressure control, timing etc.  

The better the skier, the more likely that there are still some minor stance issues and then separation issues.  


You will not win this argument with NEC... Consider yourself warned.
post #8 of 24

This ankle debate seems silly as you can't do one without doing the other. You can't plantar flex without previously dorsiflexing and you can't dorsiflex if you weren't previously plantarflexing. I use my ankle continually when i ski. I use my ankles to quickly adjust pressure under my ski and I use my ankles to adjust where my COM is over my skis, and I use my ankles to continually fine tune my balance. So a discussion about when and why you utilize one or the other is usefull but this talk about either or seems pointless.

 

Stance problems show up in people who ski flexed too much hanging out on their boot tongues, and stance problems show up in those who ski with their ankles open continually pushing on the balls of their feet. So living in between makes sense. Living in that range where we can ski flat footed with an elastic ankle so we can use our ankles to adjust our balance and improve ski performance at any point in a turn by managing ski pressure and our posture over our skis, as well as moving from turn to turn. I think one aspect of ankle use that gets over looked is that our ankles can actually be used in opposition to each other in our turns. One closing and one opening at the same time. What I will say is that I find myself opening my ankles for shorter durations and with less intensity than closing my ankles. Whether they are moving in opposition or not, my opening one or both ankles will be for a shorter duration and will be followed by my ankle(s) flexing and allowing my COM to move in a good place over my skis. And then there is also the common application where one is flexing or opening one more than the other one. Long leg short leg for example. Simple concepts that are not so simple to do.

 

So to the OP's question, I do teach beginners to use their ankles to maintain good balance over both of their skis, and I teach upper level skiers to use their ankles for balance and to improve ski performance as well.

post #9 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by RicB View Post
 I think one aspect of ankle use that gets over looked is that our ankles can actually be used in opposition to each other in our turns. One closing and one opening at the same time. 

Oh, you mean telemark? biggrin.gif

post #10 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RicB View Post

This ankle debate seems silly as you can't do one without doing the other. You can't plantar flex without previously dorsiflexing and you can't dorsiflex if you weren't previously plantarflexing. I use my ankle continually when i ski. I use my ankles to quickly adjust pressure under my ski and I use my ankles to adjust where my COM is over my skis, and I use my ankles to continually fine tune my balance. So a discussion about when and why you utilize one or the other is usefull but this talk about either or seems pointless.

 

Stance problems show up in people who ski flexed too much hanging out on their boot tongues, and stance problems show up in those who ski with their ankles open continually pushing on the balls of their feet. So living in between makes sense. Living in that range where we can ski flat footed with an elastic ankle so we can use our ankles to adjust our balance and improve ski performance at any point in a turn by managing ski pressure and our posture over our skis, as well as moving from turn to turn. I think one aspect of ankle use that gets over looked is that our ankles can actually be used in opposition to each other in our turns. One closing and one opening at the same time. What I will say is that I find myself opening my ankles for shorter durations and with less intensity than closing my ankles. Whether they are moving in opposition or not, my opening one or both ankles will be for a shorter duration and will be followed by my ankle(s) flexing and allowing my COM to move in a good place over my skis. And then there is also the common application where one is flexing or opening one more than the other one. Long leg short leg for example. Simple concepts that are not so simple to do.

 

So to the OP's question, I do teach beginners to use their ankles to maintain good balance over both of their skis, and I teach upper level skiers to use their ankles for balance and to improve ski performance as well.

Ricb you nailed it!!! One question remains, where in the arc do we begin to open or close the ankle? If in fact that is what you want to do to manage pressure resulting in good balance.

post #11 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamt View Post

Oh, you mean telemark? biggrin.gif

 

Nope...  Telemark happens the same as alpine. smile.gif

post #12 of 24

Should beginner and novice skiers flex their knees?rolleyes.gif

post #13 of 24

How about beer league intermediate not fast yet but wearing speed suits racers?

post #14 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tek Head View Post

Ricb you nailed it!!! One question remains, where in the arc do we begin to open or close the ankle? If in fact that is what you want to do to manage pressure resulting in good balance.


Well now that is a tactical decision based on terrain, turn shape, and snow conditions, so for me there isn't one pat answer. Ankle movement can both help us to maintain balance as we make subtle pressure adjustments fore and aft on our skis but it can also do each of those independent of the other. Where do you see it happening?

post #15 of 24
Oh come on...is this thread meant to be serious?

Will the madness never end?

rolleyes.gif
post #16 of 24

I'll stick my neck in on this one.  Yes......That's why they make beginner boots softer so that the right body mechanics gets taught without adverse effects (more or less) of a an extremely responsive (race) boot.  That comes later when one knows what a correct motion and incorrect motion should be (whether you do it or not is a different story).

 

Won't get into the argument of what is the correct method, I'll leave that to the experts biggrin.gif.

 

EXPERTS this your lead in  popcorn.gif .

post #17 of 24

The key is supple ankles!  popcorn.gif

post #18 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman View Post

The key is supple ankles!  popcorn.gif

 

 

worthless.gif

post #19 of 24

I don't think it is possible to show photographs or videos of supple ankles. 

 

Except  X-rated which would not appropriate! ROTF.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by markojp View Post

 

 

worthless.gif

post #20 of 24

A-Man, could I possibly suggest,

 

 

biggrin.gif

post #21 of 24

You forget something?

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldschoolskier View Post

A-Man, could I possibly suggest,

 

 

biggrin.gif

post #22 of 24

Wow it just showed up, weird?????

post #23 of 24

That made my day! beercheer.gif

post #24 of 24
Thread Starter 

Goofy Scream- The Art of Skiing!!!

 

Now that is fine Ski Instruction!!. Notice the athletic stance Goofy demonstrates. Notice he flexed ankles providing symmetry for a functional use of all the joints.

I say Cheers..also.

beercheer.gif

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