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2014 season passes rates - Page 3

post #61 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by anachronism View Post

 

To each his own. If I lived in the day skiing area to Monarch I'd be buying the pass in a heartbeat. I'm not buying an Epic pass at pretty much any price, as in my opinion the ski experiences at the places you can get to from a Monarch pass (within Colorado) are superior.  Unlimited days at places out of state don't really add value for me, because at best I'd be getting out there for one weekend. 

 

Having 3 days at most smaller areas in state is quite enough for me to add variety and ski with friends and family in different parts of the state.

 

My trip to Monarch for closing weekend in April reaffirmed what giddy fun a Monarch powder day is.

That may be true for you living in southern Colorado, but for people like my dad the Epic pass makes the most sense period. He lives in Georgia. We have family friends who live in Breck and we spend a week over New years with them every year. He also has a group of friends that he does a skiing trip with every year. They often go to the Tahoe area where his pass is also good. Epic pass takes his trip prices from incredibly expensive to the realm of possible. Honestly this is where Vail makes the big money, out of state people who travel once or twice a year. They found a honey pot that captures all the expenses of the traveling person. 

 

Another category is college students. When you don't have a car it's way easier to find a ride when you have the option of going to five resorts versus 1 with pass days at more obscure resorts that are pretty much gaurentteed to have no one else from school going to them.

 

You also discount the apres ski factor. Breck does all kinds of concerts. This past year they had Macklemore come up and 3oh!3 and Matisyahu did free concerts. They also do things like beer festivals, chili cook offs, ect. That adds a lot of value when you are on vacation or spending the weekend there and not a die hard skier.    

post #62 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by rx2ski View Post

Epic is still offerring 6 Ski-With-A-Friend tickets--I thought that part was supposed to go down on 4/30.

 

 

I think you are mixing up swaf and buddy passes.  You always get 6swaf which is not considered a spring benefit.  The buddy passes are what drop down.

 

The epic passes sales are notorious for threatening things like "last chance" but not following through on those threats then extending their offers, or only bumping up the price $20.  Someone else captured in another thread the exact history of last year's deal.

 

however, when really do stop the sales sometime in early season(nov/dec?) and say "no more epicpasses and we mean it this time, not like the other 3 times" , that threat they eventually do follow through on and you have no other option except an all resort vail pass for around $2000.

post #63 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by KrocStyle View Post

That’s cool if you don’t like the Epic mountains. I’m a Superpass+  customer myself.

 

It’s just comical how you constantly go out of your way to bitch and moan about r****** as if they’re the scourge of the earth, destroying “core” skiing by erecting a hotel and a few high speed quads. It’s all about snow and terrain, not the # of condos nearby….

 

If I lived in the area/front range, I would consider a Superpass- with the biggest hangup that has kept me from getting a Copper/WP pass when I did live around was having to deal with the I-70 mess, but several years I was really torn on the decision. It would still be more crowded than what I prefer, but not so much that I wouldn't consider skiing there. When I land discount tickets to Copper and WP, I usually use them and enjoy the experience.

 

But still, when it comes down to a 12" day at Copper or a 12" day at Monarch or Wolf Creek or Sunlight or (to a lesser extent) Loveland, I'll take the little guys.

 

Its not the existence of high speed lifts or on-mountain lodging that's the turn off, its that I can choice to ski an area that gets visited less, that still has comparable terrain to Summit, and have much more fun on a powder day with the less people that are there. In my opinion, the ski experience is superior.

 

I see no reason to ski the Colorado Vail Co mountains. They have nothing special in expert terrain (and I still hold the view that if you are going someplace to ski groomed intermediate (homogenous) terrain, I don't see why  in hell you pay more to ski it at Vail when the same product is elsewhere).  You have to put up with enormous amounts of BS (hikes through the base village, pay parking, no sack lunch space) to ski there. You put up with more crowds than anywhere else in Colorado to ski there.

 

My personal distaste for Vail goes beyond just its skiing product. Since their inception as a business, they have operated as a bully, using their clout to remove competition far more than any other Colorado ski area and more than any national ski area I'm aware of. It starts from their earliest days, buying Meadow Mountain Ski Area (a tiny beginner area located in Minturn) in 1970 for the sole purpose of shutting it down. http://www.coloradoskihistory.com/lost/meadow.html.  Of course, they were allowed the travesty of buying up their biggest competition when they were allowed to purchase Breck, Keystone, and Arapahoe Basin in the 1990's, settling the anti-trust dispute with the only catch being to sell A-Basin, the one area that wouldn't be real competition for them. And overnight, discount tickets for these places disappeared.

 

So yeah, I'm anti-Vail. I think their business model (fund operations on low season pass prices, break the back of everybody else at the ticket window) is putting the sport in real peril because it discourages new skiers. And I think their history reflects that unlike many other ski areas that view their path to success as offering a superior product as their competitors, Vail see's theirs as removing their competition.  Yes, many ski areas purchase other areas. But few with the voracity of Vail.

post #64 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by anachronism View Post

 

So yeah, I'm anti-Vail. I think their business model (fund operations on low season pass prices, break the back of everybody else at the ticket window) is putting the sport in real peril because it discourages new skiers. And I think their history reflects that unlike many other ski areas that view their path to success as offering a superior product as their competitors, Vail see's theirs as removing their competition.  Yes, many ski areas purchase other areas. But few with the voracity of Vail.

I have to disagree.

 

Low season pass products just 'lock in' the customer and encourage more skiing (and more ancilliary spends) over a longer period. A cynic might say they evilly get more money out of you instead of mugging you on Day 1 like some places did/do.

 

 

VR's resorts imo are largely intermediate blue hills that attract newbies and intermediate families, with great pricing (except for the $10 tap beers) for season passes, with a cheapish ski school fee structure with 4 to a class, and at Heavenly there's lodging from about $65 a night per motel room + cheap dining nearby. That's affordable. To cater for the expert in a family of intermediates, they added so-called black diamond terrain at Nstar, and now Kirkwood is a nice addition 'just up the road' from Heavenly.

 

For the average family, imo, VR probably led the way with making things affordable so as to grow participation.

post #65 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by veteran View Post

I have to disagree.

 

Low season pass products just 'lock in' the customer and encourage more skiing (and more ancilliary spends) over a longer period. A cynic might say they evilly get more money out of you instead of mugging you on Day 1 like some places did/do.

 

 

VR's resorts imo are largely intermediate blue hills that attract newbies and intermediate families, with great pricing (except for the $10 tap beers) for season passes, with a cheapish ski school fee structure with 4 to a class, and at Heavenly there's lodging from about $65 a night per motel room + cheap dining nearby. That's affordable. To cater for the expert in a family of intermediates, they added so-called black diamond terrain at Nstar, and now Kirkwood is a nice addition 'just up the road' from Heavenly.

 

For the average family, imo, VR probably led the way with making things affordable so as to grow participation.

Yes, if you are already a skier and buying a pass, its a rocking deal, and it allows you to ski 30-50-100 days cheaper than ever.

 

The issue is the first time skier doesn't get in on the deal- The see the $80-$120 window price, add in the cost of rental and lesson, and say HELL NO!  When your product pricing makes it far more expensive for the newbies than the established, the result is you discourage new participation.  The reason this is an issue is that the average skier these days is a 40-50 year old upper class baby boomer who in 20 years will largely be done skiing, and generations X and Y are MUCH smaller than the boomers, and are participating in skiing at a percentage much lower than the boomers.  To keep the numbers of skiers (NOTE: I said skiers, not SKI VISITS- two different things) constant, Generation X and Y would need to be participating at percentages much higher than the boomer percentage of skiers, and its not happening.

 

I point more than a little bit of blame at Vail for creating this mess, as after they bought up their competition, they slashed season  pass prices and punched up window prices to do their best to corner the market.

 

The result is that Vail set an effective ceiling on season pass prices- You can't sell a $700 season pass as a Loveland, Eldora, Arapahoe Basin or even a Winter Park when Vail's is $600. Resorts now have to sell season passes to Front Range Colorado skiers lest their skier visits get murdered by people who have already made an investment into the Vail pass abandoning their slopes. So everybody else has to play Vail's game, fighting over the season pass holders, and having to make back the revenue by increasing day pass prices.

 

Yep, its great to have a cheap season pass.  There's no question that the established skier gets to ski a lot more for less these days. Unfortunately that doesn't make it a good idea for long term health of the industry. And Vail didn't create the model out of altruism to make skiing affordable for everybody- they bought their closest competitors that could probably have fought them to a draw on the season pass wars, then used the advantage to turn the screws in everybody else. Another great ski area that fell victim to Vail? Berthoud Pass.

 

Quote:
she
decided to close the chairlifts down after the 2000-2001 season, citing they could not compete with other
area's buddy passes.

 

http://www.coloradoskihistory.com/lost/bpass.html

 

I won't post any more about this in this thread, its been covered in several others and I'd rather talk about season pass deals.

post #66 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by anachronism View Post
I won't post any more about this in this thread, its been covered in several others and I'd rather talk about season pass deals.

Yes, I would need a deep breath too after such a rant. Sounds like years and years of built up frustration. Yikes….

 

Personally, I could care less about business models and the men in suits running the show.  I just like good snow and terrain variety. Lots of options in Tahoe and CO through VR that will get you whatever you need in those departments.

 

But anyway, continue with the resort witch hunt, it’s good amusement to the rest of us.

 

Side note, for Front Rangers, the ABasin/Keystone pass for $280 is a SMOKING deal.

post #67 of 94

I like good snow and terrain variety too. I also like free parking close to the snow and affordable food on the mountain and uncrowded trails and a base lodge where I can leave my bag. There's a lot I don't like about Vail Resorts, including the whole base village idea and the incredible upper-upper-class-snootiness that goes along with it. That doesn't mean that there's anything *wrong* with VR, but it's not everyone's cup of tea. And that's okay. That's why other resorts and ski areas exist, and why I give those resorts my money instead of VR.

 

Note: this only applies to VR areas in CO. I haven't been to their holdings in Tahoe or the midwest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KrocStyle View Post

Yes, I would need a deep breath too after such a rant. Sounds like years and years of built up frustration. Yikes….

 

Personally, I could care less about business models and the men in suits running the show.  I just like good snow and terrain variety. Lots of options in Tahoe and CO through VR that will get you whatever you need in those departments.

 

But anyway, continue with the resort witch hunt, it’s good amusement to the rest of us.

 

Side note, for Front Rangers, the ABasin/Keystone pass for $280 is a SMOKING deal.

post #68 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by bruins14sammy View Post

 There's a lot I don't like about Vail Resorts, including  the incredible upper-upper-class-snootiness that goes along with

 

 

 

Those brown bagging snooty people dripped that cheap  caviar all over the chairlift. wink.gif

post #69 of 94

The irony to me is that the complaints of snootiness end up sounding to me like "i'm more core than you" reverse-snootiness.  

 

The other part of the irony is that true wealthy people wouldn't hobnob with peons and their el cheapo epicpasses  passes; so if you logically think about it it's just a mirage to aspire or pretend to be snooty for a day.  The truly wealthy people that people are imitating would be hanging out with MittRomney at DeerValley or closed resort for a private ski day. 

 

For the sociology buffs, I think there is a parallel to the UK's U and non-U English dialects.  check out the article below

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U_and_non-U_English

 

If you're not familiar with this finding, the aspiring middle-class actually ended up with word choices that are needlessly complex, to out-posh the posh.

If you read further in the wikipedia article, they mention that there is now a reverse-snobbery (slumming it)  to dumb down the english, exactly the same lashback we see here.  

Perhaps this also explains hipsters and their fascination with PBR


Edited by raytseng - 5/2/13 at 4:37pm
post #70 of 94
post #71 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by raytseng View Post

The irony to me is that the complaints of snootiness end up sounding to me like "i'm more core than you" reverse-snootiness.  

The other part of the irony is that true wealthy people wouldn't hobnob with peons and their el cheapo epicpasses  passes; so if you logically think about it it's just a mirage to aspire or pretend to be snooty for a day.  The truly wealthy people that people are imitating would be hanging out with MittRomney at DeerValley or closed resort for a private ski day. 


For the sociology buffs, I think there is a parallel to the UK's U and non-U English dialects.  check out the article below

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U_and_non-U_English

If you're not familiar with this finding, the aspiring middle-class actually ended up with word choices that are needlessly complex, to out-posh the posh.
If you read further in the wikipedia article, they mention that there is now a reverse-snobbery (slumming it)  to dumb down the english, exactly the same lashback we see here.  
Perhaps this also explains hipsters and their fascination with PBR

That's a mischaracterization. Not digging snooty folks has nothing to do with being more core than anyone. And I'm sure you're not trying to say that Vail doesn't have its share of rich, snooty folks. rolleyes.gif
post #72 of 94

I don't think that VR are filled with snooty people. I think that the base village attempts to create an atmosphere of snootiness and wealth. As raytseng says,

Quote:

Originally Posted by raytseng View Post
 

The other part of the irony is that true wealthy people wouldn't hobnob with peons and their el cheapo epicpasses  passes; so if you logically think about it it's just a mirage to aspire or pretend to be snooty for a day.  The truly wealthy people that people are imitating would be hanging out with MittRomney at DeerValley or closed resort for a private ski day. 

 

 

I find this sort of thing unappealing, and therefore, I avoid it unless I'm competing at a venue where I can't avoid it. I think that's the whole point of having competition, no?

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeUT View Post


That's a mischaracterization. Not digging snooty folks has nothing to do with being more core than anyone. And I'm sure you're not trying to say that Vail doesn't have its share of rich, snooty folks. rolleyes.gif
post #73 of 94

I have to agree with anachronism on the whole VR business model thing.

 

As an out of state visitor to CO several years ago, I had the opportunity to extend my business trip by a day and try out one of the resorts.  I ended up at Vail, probably because I had heard so much about the place that I wanted to experience what they had to offer.  From the time I drove into the Vail parking lot until the time I got back on I-70 to head back to DIA, I ended up dropping $212.00.  This was to cover the cost of parking, lift tickets, lunch, and ski rental for a day (I brought my boots with me on the trip).  Was it a $212.00 experience?  I didn't think so at the time ... and have not been back since, although I have enjoyed several other CO resorts since then.

 

In the end, I suppose I helped subsidize the EPIC pass.


Edited by NeedToSki - 5/2/13 at 8:36pm
post #74 of 94
I hadn't been to Vail since 2005 and was pretty much dragged to Vail/BC this year. Didn't think people were snooty. I did think that I'd rather return to JH, Mammoth. Squaw, Aspen, Snowbird/Alta, or Whistler to ski before Vail resorts. Guess I should get a Mountain Collective pass for $369...
post #75 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by anachronism View Post

Yes, if you are already a skier and buying a pass, its a rocking deal, and it allows you to ski 30-50-100 days cheaper than ever.

 

The issue is the first time skier doesn't get in on the deal- The see the $80-$120 window price, add in the cost of rental and lesson, and say HELL NO!  When your product pricing makes it far more expensive for the newbies than the established, the result is you discourage new participation.  The reason this is an issue is that the average skier these days is a 40-50 year old upper class baby boomer who in 20 years will largely be done skiing, and generations X and Y are MUCH smaller than the boomers, and are participating in skiing at a percentage much lower than the boomers.  To keep the numbers of skiers (NOTE: I said skiers, not SKI VISITS- two different things) constant, Generation X and Y would need to be participating at percentages much higher than the boomer percentage of skiers, and its not happening.

 

I point more than a little bit of blame at Vail for creating this mess, as after they bought up their competition, they slashed season  pass prices and punched up window prices to do their best to corner the market.

 

The result is that Vail set an effective ceiling on season pass prices- You can't sell a $700 season pass as a Loveland, Eldora, Arapahoe Basin or even a Winter Park when Vail's is $600. Resorts now have to sell season passes to Front Range Colorado skiers lest their skier visits get murdered by people who have already made an investment into the Vail pass abandoning their slopes. So everybody else has to play Vail's game, fighting over the season pass holders, and having to make back the revenue by increasing day pass prices.

 

Yep, its great to have a cheap season pass.  There's no question that the established skier gets to ski a lot more for less these days. Unfortunately that doesn't make it a good idea for long term health of the industry. And Vail didn't create the model out of altruism to make skiing affordable for everybody- they bought their closest competitors that could probably have fought them to a draw on the season pass wars, then used the advantage to turn the screws in everybody else. Another great ski area that fell victim to Vail? Berthoud Pass.

 

 

http://www.coloradoskihistory.com/lost/bpass.html

 

I won't post any more about this in this thread, its been covered in several others and I'd rather talk about season pass deals.  

Nice rant, but here are some facts-

 

"First Time Skiers" (or anyone who wants to take a never-ever lesson) get the following deal at Vail:

 

3 Day Lift Ticket + 3 Full Day Adult Group Lessons for $300

 

I taught there this season and we had first timers EVERYDAY I worked.  Speculation, but I would guess that there are not many resorts in the US that convert more first timers into regular skiers than Vail.  I would be willing to bet large amounts of money that Vail has more first time skiers who become regular skiers than Monarch (which appears to charge $156 for a single day left/4 hour lesson/rental package)

 

You are right that many who visit Vail are 40-50 and upper class, but many of these people also bring their kids and introduce them to skiing.  Phil might describe many of them as people who ski so having many of the amenities of a place like Vail is a big draw for them.  

 

FWIW, in addition to teaching doctors, attorneys and business executives I also taught school teachers, students and others who likely did not have 6 figure incomes.

post #76 of 94


A great idea imo: 4 per class.

post #77 of 94

Being stuck skiing but a few times a year in the Midwest, one of the greatest deals is for Snowshoe, WV. You will find 2, 1.5 mile, 1500' vert black diamond runs. They have a season pass blowout sale in February............$199/person gets you the remained of the season and ALL of next season. IMO, one of the best deals anywhere!
 

post #78 of 94

A season pass at Mt. Baldy (800 acres/2100' vertical, an hour's drive from downtown LA) is now $149 if you roll over your pass from last year (deal good until end of Sept).

 

Mammoth is now $799; if you bought at end of last season it would have been $729.  Student pass last year was $299, haven't announced this year's price

post #79 of 94

for 350 I get a season pass to snow AND stratton without blackout dates!

post #80 of 94

Why are passes so cheap in the US? Competition? Whistler/Blackcomb's early purchase deal (have to buy before end of May, or maybe it was May 1) was $1,250 this year I believe. No real competition in the region.

post #81 of 94
Is there VAT on them, just wondering. We don't have any real competition here, but we do draw a lot of Canadians past Fernie to here, mostly because of the pricing. Early purchase is $595.
post #82 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky View Post

Is there VAT on them, just wondering. We don't have any real competition here, but we do draw a lot of Canadians past Fernie to here, mostly because of the pricing. Early purchase is $595.

 

Yep, we have a national 5% VAT (called GST, goods and service tax) on all goods and services, as well as a 7% provincial sales tax (PST) in BC, but it only applies to certain goods. Passes/lift tickets only have the 5% GST. I haven't been down to Whitefish myself but multiple friends from Calgary have family cabins down there, and I remember in the 90's when the FX rate differential was huge, Whitefish would accept $CAD at par, you folks must love us Canucks :).

 

By way of background, a couple years ago BC made the move to a harmonized tax (HST) of 12% (many other provinces have done this). This was a wise move from an economic policy perspective, but politically it was carried out poorly and the average person could not wrap their head around why a 12% refundable tax was better for economic development than 5% refundable + 7% sales tax, so the government was forced to go back to the GST/PST system, wasting billions of dollars in the process.

post #83 of 94

They just issued the day ticket rates, so posting the pass rates in effect for the next three days for all the Canucks to come down here instead...  Check out the Frequent Skier rate, too.

 

post #84 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikoras View Post
 

for 350 I get a season pass to snow AND stratton without blackout dates!

That is probably the best deal I've seen in awhile short of working at a resort.  If you can log ten days you've gotten some really affordable skiing.  I paid $5.00 for an all day lift ticket last winter, special 50th anniversary promotion.  But, for no blackouts that is a pretty good deal...

post #85 of 94

$1,449 will get you unlimited access to Sunshine Village, Lake Louise and Norquay (Norquay night skiing included)

 

$899 for Just Sunshine Village

 

$900 for Just Lake Louise

 

$589 for only Norquay (includes night skiing.)


Prices in Canadian dollars...depends what ya feel like doing...

post #86 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post
 

That is probably the best deal I've seen in awhile short of working at a resort.  If you can log ten days you've gotten some really affordable skiing.  I paid $5.00 for an all day lift ticket last winter, special 50th anniversary promotion.  But, for no blackouts that is a pretty good deal...

 

Comes with 2 weekday buddy passes as well. Since a couple of friends and I are doing the same deal we'll have a total of 6 weekday passes to give to our friends who ski less often or want to try it. I'm sure we'll put them to good use.

post #87 of 94

Sun Valley is Now $1,999 for unlimited skiing on both Baldy and the smaller mountain Dollar. Was $1650 on an early buy.  They do have a college pass, young adult pass, kids pass at discounted rates. http://www.sunvalley.com/tickets/passes/

 

Buying 3 passes this year for the family is a commitment- hope to get 100 "days" in. Our days consist of about 1.5 hours of skiing before work. But a lot of vertical. 

 

Photo is off SV website and is of the Historic Round House Lodge from Rock Garden run.  This is where the gondola unloads, you are 2/3rds of the way up to the top of Baldy, but easy access from here to family skiing and Seattle Ridge. 

 

post #88 of 94

... deleted.


Edited by JayT - 10/3/13 at 2:33pm
post #89 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by raytseng View Post
 

The irony to me is that the complaints of snootiness end up sounding to me like "i'm more core than you" reverse-snootiness.  

 

The other part of the irony is that true wealthy people wouldn't hobnob with peons and their el cheapo epicpasses  passes; so if you logically think about it it's just a mirage to aspire or pretend to be snooty for a day.  The truly wealthy people that people are imitating would be hanging out with MittRomney at DeerValley or closed resort for a private ski day. 

 

For the sociology buffs, I think there is a parallel to the UK's U and non-U English dialects.  check out the article below

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U_and_non-U_English

 

If you're not familiar with this finding, the aspiring middle-class actually ended up with word choices that are needlessly complex, to out-posh the posh.

If you read further in the wikipedia article, they mention that there is now a reverse-snobbery (slumming it)  to dumb down the english, exactly the same lashback we see here.  

Perhaps this also explains hipsters and their fascination with PBR

 

but...PBR has a lot of bang for your buck in the taste department :(.

post #90 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayT View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by ketchumid View Post

 
Sun Valley is Now $1,999 for unlimited skiing on both Baldy and the smaller mountain Dollar. Was $1650 on an early buy.

Umm, so it was *more* expensive if you paid early or is that a typo?

I read it as the Early Buy period having ended and now has increased to $1999. Ours just went up as well.
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