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Too much practice could nueral pathway burnout ?

post #1 of 18
Thread Starter 

 The body will protect itself from stress, i.e., exposure from high intensity sunlight the body will develope a tan, exposer to high intensity exercise (wieght lifting) the body will deveolpe bigger muscles, from stress of arobic exercise such as running the hart & lungs will become more effecient. Friction on the skin will cause a callus to develope, To much friction will cause a blister

 

 If there is to much stress the body wont adapt i.e., if a sun tanner is exposed to long to high intensity sun light they will start to burn,  the skin then muscle will start to break down taken to the extreame death would occure 

 

 From practise a skier can develope precise movements so thier neural pathway becomes more effecient for those movements. To much stress such as from sun light, exercise causes the body to breakdown instead of being able to adapt to the stress.

 

Perhaps to much practice & or skiing results in the neural pathway to breakdown ?

 

The body can adapt to stress by becoming stronger but to much stress can cause it to breakdown.

 

If stress is causing the neural pathway to develope? It makes me wonder if to much stress on a precise neural pathway could cause it to break down ? So there could be a precise amount of practice that can be done for best results, Just like there is a precise amount of sun exposer needed to develope a tan.

 

 Was not sure where to start this thread. So moderator can  move it to best location

post #2 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Powder Jet View Post

To much stress such as from sun light, exercise causes the body to breakdown instead of being able to adapt to the stress.

 

Perhaps to much practice & or skiing results in the neural pathway to breakdown ?

 

 

 

 

I don't think it quite works that way.

post #3 of 18

Agree with Mark. One thought is that if you practice so much that the muscles tire and don´t respond as they normally do, then the ingraining of the patterns suffer since they then are adopting to another "system".

 

It has also been suggested that kids should not spend too much time practicing technique and movement pattern. The bodys response will change anyway. Much better to train coordination (read play on the mountain)

post #4 of 18

Learning is distinct from, but somewhat related to stress. 

 

In learning psychology, there are several models built around extensive practice to the point of mastery of skill/knowledge. A lot of these models are far more effective than traditional lectures. I don't think you have to worry about people's brains exploding from practice since such things just don't happen. 

 

That said, arousal is a big factor in learning. Arousal refers to a sense of urgency, agitation, or excitement rather than sexiness. Zero arousal leads to minimal learning. Moderate arousal correlates with high learning. Too much arousal, or stress, leads to no learning. 

 

 

The thing with skiing is that most learners on snow are at least somewhat aroused. For new skiers, there's either apprehension or anticipation of speed. It's also easy to push experienced skiers into a higher zone of arousal by simply increasing either terrain (bumps or steeps) or speed. The challenge for the instructor around arousal is recognizing the learner's arousal level and managing it appropriately. 

post #5 of 18

My only knowledge in this subject comes from reading "The Talent Code", but in that book, they suggested that neural pathways that get used "more" get coated in myelin which effectively acts to make that particular pathway more efficient.  i.e., this signal is awesome, we like this, move it along, pronto!  Effectively, the more you practice something, the more efficiently your neurons are able to process the movements required to do that task.

 

Myelin doesn't seem to get weaker through use (although disease, age, etc. can take their toll on the stuff).  But from what researchers have been able to determine, your ability to build more myelin never completely goes away.

post #6 of 18
No - but your quality will degrade, as focus and muscles can't keep up after a while. A rule of thumb for instance on a course is that you get no more than 5-6 useful runs...

A related issue is that the brain can't really "unlearn" stuff. You can choose not to do it that way and learn a new way, but you won't "unlearn" something - that's partially why it's hard to change bad habits...

Also - skiing by itself has a pattern that does not put too much load on the brain, you spend very little time actually engaged in skiing versus riding the chair, engaged in a conversation perhaps. So, no, too much skiing won'y fry your brain.

There are techniques to maximize learning though, like the 3x10 technique, where you repeat something 3 times at 10 minute intervals - again, very suitable to the pattern in which skiing happens.

cheers
post #7 of 18
Thread Starter 

Razie

 

 Your right a lot of time is spent on the chair. I caught the end of a conversation on CNBC & the guy said something about to much golf could lead to over useage of the neural pathway for the swing movement. Maybe I missunderstood because I just caught the ending,  from my understanding it seamed that the neural pathway could be over used. I tried googling & could not find any info regarding it. After thinking about the concept of over training kinda made me wonder.

post #8 of 18

Rule of thumb is 10,000+ hours of focused improvement practice to reach expert status. If you want to be an expert in 10 years then 3 hours per day. Overuse injuries are a risk. But neural pathway burnout? Never heard of that one.

post #9 of 18

   Think about walking. If our neural pathways wore out from repeating the same movements over and over and......you get the point. I don't think anyone's fried their brain by walking too much.

 

 Agreed with razie and nec...we always found 6-8 training runs in the gates optimal. More than that and you begin to tire...and make errors which are counterproductive.

 

  zenny

post #10 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by NECoach View Post

Rule of thumb is 10,000+ hours of focused improvement practice to reach expert status. If you want to be an expert in 10 years then 3 hours per day. Overuse injuries are a risk. But neural pathway burnout? Never heard of that one.

Yes, and since you spend a lot of time in the lift you may have to spend maybe 6-8 hours in total!

post #11 of 18
Thread Starter 

 When doing high intensity exercise such as a set of squats to failure. The first reps there is most likely no shaking as the nuber of reps increase & gets closer to muscular failure often shaking will result. The shaking seams to increase & maxes out near the end of the sets. Those that take the intensity to a very high  level sometimes will sease the set in fear of a limb buckling from the shaking. The shaking I think would have something to do with the nervous system. This would be an example of acute stress reducing the ability of the nervous system to work most effectively near the end of the set.

 

 Carpal tunnel has something to do with the nerves & some think it is related to over use.

 

Someone that has never did much knitting would get faster as they got more practice. Take that practice to far & they start getting carpal tunnel instead of becoming faster with the more practice they would start to get slower as the carpal tunnel worsened. This would be an example of cronic over use.

 

 The first rule of life is to stop from dying. The body does a wonderfull job of protecting it self & perhaps the nervous system plays a role to help protect the body from over useage. It also want the body to be efficient in the movements it needs to make. Perhaps there is a fine line between the two.

 

 This is specultaion I my part. But it would not surprise me that it might be possible with to much practice to maybe negitively effect the efficiency path way for movements involved with skiing. Just like some people can handle more exercise stress or stress from sun light then others I also think it also apply to the nervous system & some activities would put more stress on the nervous system then others.

post #12 of 18
muscles shaking=lactic acid buildup...or a neurological disorder/disease.

zenny
post #13 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Powder Jet View Post

 When doing high intensity exercise such as a set of squats to failure. The first reps there is most likely no shaking as the nuber of reps increase & gets closer to muscular failure often shaking will result. The shaking seams to increase & maxes out near the end of the sets. Those that take the intensity to a very high  level sometimes will sease the set in fear of a limb buckling from the shaking. The shaking I think would have something to do with the nervous system. This would be an example of acute stress reducing the ability of the nervous system to work most effectively near the end of the set.

 Carpal tunnel has something to do with the nerves & some think it is related to over use.

Someone that has never did much knitting would get faster as they got more practice. Take that practice to far & they start getting carpal tunnel instead of becoming faster with the more practice they would start to get slower as the carpal tunnel worsened. This would be an example of cronic over use.

 The first rule of life is to stop from dying. The body does a wonderfull job of protecting it self & perhaps the nervous system plays a role to help protect the body from over useage. It also want the body to be efficient in the movements it needs to make. Perhaps there is a fine line between the two.

 This is specultaion I my part. But it would not surprise me that it might be possible with to much practice to maybe negitively effect the efficiency path way for movements involved with skiing. Just like some people can handle more exercise stress or stress from sun light then others I also think it also apply to the nervous system & some activities would put more stress on the nervous system then others.
I know about carpal tunnel and repetitive motion syndromes and such - however, those are all mechanical in nature. same reason a car's engine will die after a while etc. Essentially, the body can't regenerate as fast as it degrades...

Neural stuff works differently though, it's about chemicals and electricity - I don't think degradation happens the same way you wear out the body mechanically... that's the big difference that I see: too much typing will mess up your wrists, but skiing won't fry your brain...

in terms of mechanical degradation, sure, your back will give up in time and then your knees, you'll need hip replacement etc... but not from too much skiiing, but too much ... well, living...

cheers
post #14 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Powder Jet View Post

 When doing high intensity exercise such as a set of squats to failure. The first reps there is most likely no shaking as the nuber of reps increase & gets closer to muscular failure often shaking will result. The shaking seams to increase & maxes out near the end of the sets. Those that take the intensity to a very high  level sometimes will sease the set in fear of a limb buckling from the shaking. The shaking I think would have something to do with the nervous system. This would be an example of acute stress reducing the ability of the nervous system to work most effectively near the end of the set.

 

 

No... that's muscle fatique/lactic acid, etc... That's very different than say, 'sewing machine leg' that a new rock climber might get when pushing themselves... the latter is more about fear than fatigue.  Carpal tunnel as razie mentions is mechanical, the result putting pressure on nerves, as would be a compressed or slipped disc. The nerves are not the source, but a symptom of a problem. I'm not sure that you're seeing the difference between neurological pathways and the systems to which they lead. Is there a doctor in the house? 

post #15 of 18

HH likes to say that you "are always practicing, whether you know it or not."

 

If you are not trying to perform correct, efficient movements, but are content to ski any old way because you aren't "working on something", then you are in fact practicing incorrect, inefficient movements. 

 

As far as fatigue goes, I guess there's now another reason for not taking that one last run you think you have in you: there's no sense practicing crappy skiing.

post #16 of 18

Burnout, no I don't think so....  As others have said, the more you do something, the more that particular neural pathways are strengthened and they become easier and more effortless to use,.....habitual.......addiction even...........and it literally feels good and comfortable to use those pathways.  Most adults are on auto pilot, using their well worn neural pathways for most of their life.  The brain can handle this no problem.

 

But...  When you're trying to create new neural pathways, ie, trying to learn new habits or let's say ski movements, it can be mentally exhausting in the beginning because it requires a lot of concerted focus to keep from triggering the other well worn neural pathways and try to coerce your brain to use the new ones which are not so strong yet.

 

I have no idea whether this kind of focused development of new pathways can cause some kind of physical strain or burnout....its entirely possible that more blood has to flow to the brain or whatever to do this, and I can tell you that as a software engineer my brain definitely got tired after a 15 hour brain day; so there are definitely some physical aspects of the brain that get fatigued by this kind of effort IMHO

 

But as of yet I have really not heard of anyone burning out their brain, its a pretty incredible organ capable of way more than we currently use it for I think.

post #17 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Powder Jet View Post

 When doing high intensity exercise such as a set of squats to failure. The first reps there is most likely no shaking as the nuber of reps increase & gets closer to muscular failure often shaking will result. The shaking seams to increase & maxes out near the end of the sets. Those that take the intensity to a very high  level sometimes will sease the set in fear of a limb buckling from the shaking. The shaking I think would have something to do with the nervous system. This would be an example of acute stress reducing the ability of the nervous system to work most effectively near the end of the set.

 

 Carpal tunnel has something to do with the nerves & some think it is related to over use.

 

Someone that has never did much knitting would get faster as they got more practice. Take that practice to far & they start getting carpal tunnel instead of becoming faster with the more practice they would start to get slower as the carpal tunnel worsened. This would be an example of cronic over use.

 

 The first rule of life is to stop from dying. The body does a wonderfull job of protecting it self & perhaps the nervous system plays a role to help protect the body from over useage. It also want the body to be efficient in the movements it needs to make. Perhaps there is a fine line between the two.

 

 This is specultaion I my part. But it would not surprise me that it might be possible with to much practice to maybe negitively effect the efficiency path way for movements involved with skiing. Just like some people can handle more exercise stress or stress from sun light then others I also think it also apply to the nervous system & some activities would put more stress on the nervous system then others.

 

You might find this interesting,

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebbian_theory

 

This is one form of neural network development that could have a negative impact on movement, especially highly variable, complex patterns.  Oddly, its the enhanced efficiency that is the issue, excite the same pathway over they get better and while they do the nearby synapses become more inhibited.

post #18 of 18

As a musician I practice a lot.  When I have something that I am trying to perfect I find that I can repeat it a number of times and begin to improve, but when I practice the same thing too long it begins to get worse.  At this point I stop and give it a break.  When I come back to it after some amount of time (10 minutes or more) I find that I can do it better than I had ever done it in my previous session.  I work it for a bit and then give it a bigger break, say a day, and then return to it the next day.  There is almost always significant improvement.  For perfection I just keep repeating the process until I'm happy with the results.

 

I don't know how this works in skiing.  As mentioned earlier, the lift ride gives you a natural break, but the physical task of learning is the same.  However, burning out your brain by practicing too much is not a concept to which I give much credence.

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