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Take the plunge - Page 2

post #31 of 41

I have skied on Moments.  Too one-dimensional for me, that brand tends to to substitute stiffness for finesse.  Always wanted to get on ON3Ps actually, could never get to doing that while visiting PDX (and probably won't be a useful test, because I tend to ski Timberline, not Meadows - my dad likes to ski Timberline).  I try to be careful and was only commenting on the graphics.  No experience with 4FRNT, but aren't they kind of not an indie anymore but somewhere in between, like Armada?  I think its hard to be on every ski on the market, even if you work in the industry (and I do not, despite my Epic badge saying the contrary).  I probably get to be on more skis than an average consumer though, because I am a gear freak.  But that's probably true for a lot of people on EpicSki.     

post #32 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecimmortal View Post


Using the Bonafide as an example.....I think it is the perfect example of a good ski, that is not really that amazing. It just has a good solid classic feel. That is why it is so popular. And Blizzard clearly had an influx of cash in to their marketing department.

 

BTW Nordica's marketing in the freeride category is on the upswing. They have definitely committed to it.

 

And I personally do not call 2x4 stiffness personality either. But there are some pretty interesting designs out there that break some of the paradigms, and misconceptions that the general public has. I think it's too deep for the average consumer who sizes a pow ski like they would a front side carver, then wonders why they get tip dive. But for people willing to take the time there are some gems. You obviously found something you like in the RP112. for me personally that ski doesn't do it, but then again you probably would not like what I look for in a ski. The point is there are choices.

 

As far as quality, some of the worst edge gaps, and sidewall voids I have seen have been on Rossi sidewall construction skis. Rossi even had a complete run of one model have a completely jacked up rocker camber profile a couple of years ago. Are there small guys putting out junk. Sure. But there are a few who are real sticklers for the quality they put out. As you mentioned these guys are internet driven, and no one screams louder about failures than us on the internet.

maybe you could define amazing, from your perspective.

most strong skiers don't really need or expect more than that good classic feel from a daily driver. they know it's about the skiing. when the Bone came out, the prevalent comment was: a better Mantra. Now that's not really true for everyone, but it speaks to excellence in classic performance, as all these people were trying it after many years on the Mantra. I said the same of the Legend Pro, a better Mantra/Explosiv. When I demoed the Legend Pro Rider, I was completely blown away; it had a feel like the blend of every (classic) ski I had ever owned, and by the second turn they felt like I had been skiing them for years. just wow! now on my second pair, spanning about 5 years.

 

Notice this: most people who are enjoying some indies, very qualified statement here, have large quivers and turn over their skis frequently. that really says it all for me.

 

Giving a ski brand a particular feel and personality is a subtle thing that develops over a minimum of 30 years, IMO. The Rossignol Soul Rider shares certain qualities of the first real all mountain ski, the Rossignol SM of mid to late 80's.

 

I know my son's skiing inside out. When he went from an indie powder ski to the Super 7, his skiing (aspects most affected by skis) improved in a few turns. From then on, it just got better and easier for him. Not so anyone else would notice, mind you, but I did.

 

The idea that a good skier is automatically a good ski designer or manufacturer is complete and utter fantasy. It would be nice, but it just ain't so.

 

Clearly this post could be titled: in praise of the classic major ski companies. my bias.

post #33 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by davluri View Post

Notice this: most people who are enjoying some indies, very qualified statement here, have large quivers and turn over their skis frequently. that really says it all for me.

 

Well of course, because your average jo-blo one pair of skis for this decade type isn't likely to seek out smaller brands, the same way that a music connoisseur will listen to a lot of music produced by indie labels vs. someone who only listens to the radio.

post #34 of 41

I think you guys are taking the Bonafide comment a little personal. I think it's a wonderful ski. That does what you want it to, in many conditions. It has a perfect turn radius that is tight enough for excellent maneuverability, and long enough to not be twitchy when you want to run it out. Not to mention a perfect amount of early rise. Basically it doesn't do anything shocking, but ski well. Pretty much a perfect western DD. Duh.

 

Though I am way more interested in the Brahma.

post #35 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayT View Post

Well of course, because your average jo-blo one pair of skis for this decade type isn't likely to seek out smaller brands, the same way that a music connoisseur
will listen to a lot of music produced by indie labels vs. someone who only listens to the radio.

Given how many days davluri skis I'd consider him a legitimate connoisseur. :-)
post #36 of 41

^^ Sure, and songs on the radio can be good just like bigger brand skis can be good.  My only point was it makes sense that ski freaks with large quivers would be the ones most likely to own an indie ski, that's all.

post #37 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexzn View Post

I have skied on Moments.  Too one-dimensional for me, that brand tends to to substitute stiffness for finesse.  Always wanted to get on ON3Ps actually, could never get to doing that while visiting PDX (and probably won't be a useful test, because I tend to ski Timberline, not Meadows - my dad likes to ski Timberline).  I try to be careful and was only commenting on the graphics.  No experience with 4FRNT, but aren't they kind of not an indie anymore but somewhere in between, like Armada?  I think its hard to be on every ski on the market, even if you work in the industry (and I do not, despite my Epic badge saying the contrary).  I probably get to be on more skis than an average consumer though, because I am a gear freak.  But that's probably true for a lot of people on EpicSki.     

Has it occurred to you that most indie companies are targeting a complete different segment of the ski community than the majors? The majors market to everyone, while the indies market to mostly off piste skiers and in some cases park. Take a quick look at the Moment website and tell me they were ever designed to be finesse skis. If you ask me that's never what they were going for.

post #38 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by RustySixgun View Post

Thanks to everyone for the responses.  Just out of curiosity, L2S, what did you go with in place of the 9D8?

Sorry, just saw your question.  The 9D8 is a new ski for next season in response to the Bonafide in my opinion.  So I never skied it.  I had Praxis Back Country's (they kicked ass) and Praxis Powders (rule the pow but tough on groomed snow).  As I previously said, Keith has some really good skis out there for 2014.  To bad I already love my quiver or I would have bought at least one pair from him.

post #39 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexzn View Post

Sorry, but that's not what I said?  I have no issues with quality or innovation from DPS or Praxis, and I said just that, so no argument here.  As for metal- again, this old news and things have changed.  Exhibit A- 2014 Nordica Vagabond, no metal, skis very well, probably a flagship freeride ski for Nordica next year.  Nordica's marketing stinks, but they make great skis, and generally everything freeride they make is way more refined and sophisticated than an indie, but almost no one skis them.  So, whose marketing is more effective?  Moreover, plenty of majors make skis that are anything but dumbed down.  Nordica, Kastle, Stockli, and, yes, Blizzard some to mind.  How is Cochise or a Bone or Enforcer a dumbed down ski?  I have not noticed that, but maybe I am not rad enough for that. If anything, good majors have plenty of personality, or at least what I call a personality.  If you call 2x4 stiffness a personality, I would disagree.

Again, its not that good indies don't have a personality, I skied a DPS this year that has a very unique feeling, unlike any other ski I've ever tried, it felt downright weird at first, but highly effective, and from what I can say genuinely innovative.  But again, this was DPS, and they march to a different beat from other indie brands.

I'd actually disagree that its easy to make a great ski.  It's indeed easy to make a decent ski, but making a really good ski is hard, and it takes technical sophistication and engineering, great production facilities (there is a reason that most of the best skis on the market come from just 2 or 3 factories), and passion to make a good product.  It's way easier to make a decent ski, slap a unique cool topsheet on it, put together a website with rad videos, and start a Facebook viral marketing campaign.

Well, its almost summer, so we are free to engage in endless gear discussions :-) 
post #40 of 41
Very well said
post #41 of 41

If you have been out of skiing for 20 years, find a great boot fitter and that investment will pay off performance-wise 5 fold over adding more skis to your quiver + your quiver already covers most everything but CO's big 12"+ dump. So if your lucky enough to be there then rent some 130+ skis under foot.

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