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Do Snowboarders take a different line than Skiers?

post #1 of 26
Thread Starter 

Have been snowboarding for about 15 years and switched to skiing this season.  Jan. in Aspen, Feb. in Austria Tux. It seemed to me other skiers did ride more down the line than I would if I had a snowboard underfoot, For example  I was always looking for smaller hills to carve into with my new skis, other skiers seemd not to pay much attention to do so. Different perception ?

post #2 of 26
I think one of the reason snowboarders and skiers have issues co-existing is that they do ski differently. Each is always doing something that the other doesn't expect them to do. To me, a skier, snowboarders frequently make sharp turns across the slope without regard to who is behind them. Skiers rarely perform that maneuver other than to avoid a sudden obstacle. We usually focus on proceeding DOWN the hill.
post #3 of 26
Thread Starter 

Interesting point of view, so skiers want to go DOWN -hill as quick as possible whilst boarders tend to "work" the mountain as long as possible...?

Before I switched to skiing I accomponied my skiing wife snowboarding and had to snowboard like a skier most times. Now skiing I saw the line down the mountain like a boarder - still my wife isn t happy with the way I ski...
 

post #4 of 26

I've seen a few good snowboarders that slalom down the mountain and they make it look like fun.  Unfortunately the majority of snow boarders I see are just E braking their way down mountain.  

post #5 of 26
From my observation on the lift, beginner/intermediate skiers tend to stick with fall line with more frequent turns than boarders, who tend to make longer traverses across the slope making sudden Z turns.

The few good boarders who can really carve have line similar to good skiers, however they still tend to make more complete/less frequent turns.
post #6 of 26

Ex,

 

My opinion is that you will find that skiers and riders of different levels of ability will tend to take different lines on different slopes and snow sports participants tend to view other snow sports participants on different gear differently.

 

The typical example is skiers complaining about being hit by out of control snowboarders while snowboarders complaining about being hit by out of control skiers. It is clear that an out of control participant can not control who they hit and thus it is impossible for only skiers to hir riders and vice versa. My favorite example of perspective was listening to a guest complaint about all of the snowboarders sitting on a particular slope. My observation was that there was an equal number percentagewise of skiers who were stopped on the same slope and they presented as much of an obstacle to unfettered line choice as the snowboarders. However, the guest viewed stopped skiers as "normal". Okay, complaint noted.

 

Enjoy the perspective that being on different gear gives you. I find it ironic that although instructors often teach lower skilled participants to go across the fall line to manage more difficult terrain, it is often the lesser skilled participants who are found going in a more down the fall line line with control "issues". Each type of skier presents a potential hazard to a more skilled participant. To the more skilled participants who are frustrated by these obstacles I offer this calming phrase "There, but for the grace of Ullr, go I".

post #7 of 26
Thread Starter 

Thanks for your opinion, yes I am thankfull for just being in both worlds ski and snowboard. Experiencing skiing is just something new to me and I am having fun -thats what ist about. though I think boarders would have more fun keeping up with skiers. I always looked for good skiers and tried to follow themand to take their line. It`s a good Training to become faster . I have to admit I had the right board to do so...Palmer Channel very long, very stiff- boardercross like..

I am glad not to have open this thrad in the skiing Forum if I look at the thread " oblivious boarders"...who is ullr?...

post #8 of 26
Ullr is a Norse god. To skiers, the god of snow.
post #9 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky View Post

I think one of the reason snowboarders and skiers have issues co-existing is that they do ski differently. Each is always doing something that the other doesn't expect them to do. To me, a skier, snowboarders frequently make sharp turns across the slope without regard to who is behind them. Skiers rarely perform that maneuver other than to avoid a sudden obstacle. We usually focus on proceeding DOWN the hill.

I seemed to angerred people saying that downhillers, regardless if they are a snowboarder or skiier, should have some regard to who is behind them.

 

So... maybe next season, I'll take the forum's advice and disregard who is behind me, and if a uphiller crash into me.... especially a skiier, I'll remind them of their responsibility.

 

anyway....as I digress.  I usually find newbie skiiers frequently make sharp turns across the slope without regard to he is behind them.  On a green, it's fine.  It's supposed to be a slower zone anyway, for people to get proficient with their skills.

 

Noob snowboards, more frequently scrape down the fall line heel-side, angering skiiers more.

 

When I practice riding switch on a green, I do frequently make sharp turns across the slope, until I give up and go back to riding regular.

 

The good snowboarders, like the good skiiers, focus on bombing down the hill.

post #10 of 26

One rule is, the uphill person has the responsibility for avoiding the downhill person. Another rule is that the downhill person should not dart out in front of uphill people for merging trails and obstruction. It is common courtesy to not do this on open trails. But it is also common courtesy for the uphill person to let the downhill person do whatever they like without crashing into them. Common sense says that people making sudden moves across a slope should check uphill beforehand for self preservation. Unfortunately common sense and common courtesy are not universal.

 

Try doing GS turns in the bumps on skis or a board. The really good skiers and riders focus on making turns.

post #11 of 26

Skiers first learning to ski often need to "shop" their turns here in New England.  For a good part of the ski day the snow surface can be sugar on formica.  Novices need to turn on the irregularly placed piles of sugar since they can't reliably turn their skis on the formica. They meander across the entire slope sometimes in their hunt for penetrable piles of snow, unexpectedly cutting off faster skiers approaching from behind.  This is dangerous for them and for the faster skiers.  Yes, it's the responsibility of the faster skiers gaining on them to carefully pass them at a big safe distance; but they often aren't thinking about this, as we all know.

 

Telling these beginners to look behind themselves as they ski is not going to work. These innocents can't turn their heads around as they ski and look behind them; they'll lose their balance and fall over.  

 

So I teach my beginners to imagine a lane running straight down the slope and plan to stay in it; we work on that during our lessons.  It can't hurt to ski defensively. 

post #12 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by tanscrazydaisy View Post

I seemed to angerred people saying that downhillers, regardless if they are a snowboarder or skiier, should have some regard to who is behind them.

Regardless of rules, how would you exactly do that? By turning head for a quick glance we can see about 90°, minus obstruction by goggles there's no way you can see what's behind you. Boarders facing uphill can do it perhaps, but when they face the other way they have even less ability to see uphill.
post #13 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by jzmtl View Post


Regardless of rules, how would you exactly do that? By turning head for a quick glance we can see about 90°, minus obstruction by goggles there's no way you can see what's behind you. Boarders facing uphill can do it perhaps, but when they face the other way they have even less ability to see uphill.

yes, I have to turn my head and shoulder for a quick glance, especially when there is a possibility of me planning on cutting a turn and going across the trail for a bit..... and doing it without causing myself to crash.

post #14 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by tanscrazydaisy View Post

The good snowboarders, like the good skiiers, focus on bombing down the hill.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRusty View Post

Try doing GS turns in the bumps on skis or a board. The really good skiers and riders focus on making turns.

 

Perhaps a better definition of good skiing is focusing on making turns at speed.

post #15 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoebag View Post

 

Perhaps a better definition of good skiing is focusing on making turns at speed.

 

IF you're going to be picky... a good skiier or rider can make turns, even at slow speeds.... but I'm pretty sure you guys mean while bombing down the trails at great speed and control (where you're turning to scrub speed and steering around say.. obstacles or "gates").

 

GS on a snowboard, to do it at insane (for me) speeds, will require a different board altogether... as all my boards are twin and semi-twin.  No directional boards in my arsenal.  But 2 camber and 1 camber/rocker/camber  (the new board)

post #16 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRusty View Post

Ex,

 

My opinion is that you will find that skiers and riders of different levels of ability will tend to take different lines on different slopes and snow sports participants tend to view other snow sports participants on different gear differently.

 

The typical example is skiers complaining about being hit by out of control snowboarders while snowboarders complaining about being hit by out of control skiers. It is clear that an out of control participant can not control who they hit and thus it is impossible for only skiers to hir riders and vice versa. My favorite example of perspective was listening to a guest complaint about all of the snowboarders sitting on a particular slope. My observation was that there was an equal number percentagewise of skiers who were stopped on the same slope and they presented as much of an obstacle to unfettered line choice as the snowboarders. However, the guest viewed stopped skiers as "normal". Okay, complaint noted.

 

Enjoy the perspective that being on different gear gives you. I find it ironic that although instructors often teach lower skilled participants to go across the fall line to manage more difficult terrain, it is often the lesser skilled participants who are found going in a more down the fall line line with control "issues". Each type of skier presents a potential hazard to a more skilled participant. To the more skilled participants who are frustrated by these obstacles I offer this calming phrase "There, but for the grace of Ullr, go I".

Nice assessment Rusty!

 

Exsnowboarder - I hope you don't totally give up boarding. Winters are doubly enjoyable for me because I split my time 50/50 between the two pursuits.  In the interests of full disclosure I rarely ride a softboot board preferring hardboot setups.  When I do hop on my Nitro board I like to do 360 spins and practice riding switch.  I gave up competing in the half pipe eight years ago at age 58 because the bones are a little more brittle at this stage in my life.

 

Carving with a GS board is every bit as much fun as carving a pair of skis. Running gates is fun regardless of the apparatus.  Hardboot setups aren't easy to come by but I'm sure you'll find it brings a whole new perspective to boarding.

 

 

 

 

 

Where in northern Germany do you ski?  I skied at a place called Winterberg in 1957.  There was only a rope tow.  I do remember watching a ski jumping competition there.

post #17 of 26
Thread Starter 

Hi patmoore,

Have been to Winterberg late season 2012, testing my new equipment -  it became a small skicircus wit lts of lifts but it has only short runs, good for a bit of fun skiing/boarding, lots of dutch skiers and pretty crowded.

I started skiing in school, paused started Boarding in 80 s, Sims board, paused, started again boarding 15 years ago with my skiing girlfriend mostly twice a year in Austria- most good places in Austria also crowded and then People of the eastern eoropean part took over so we decided to spend the vacations in the rockies for the last 5 years.

In january Aspen, Vail, Banff, so much space, seemed like nobody there at all, nobody on the piste, we were amased...

the few People skiing there we observed were mostly skiing in a bunch of People, then they were gone and we were alone again on the mountain.

back to Topic, could be skiers tend to move in a Group as they learn in a Group by just following their leader.

I myself didnt took lessons in skiing,my line influence 105`s fit my style i had with my palmer channel DOWN wards!

post #18 of 26

Longtime lurker, first time poster :)

 

I tend to think the problems come from different blind spots and age.  The resort I go to most has one very crowded run over which the main lift travels - so you get a lot of opportunites to see grumpiness.

 

BLINDSPOTS

Generally the row erupts because a skiier has passed a boarder in the blind spot (behind them, and slightly uphill) and the boarder has done a heelside turn.

or

the boarder has passed a skier who has subsequently turned in their blind spot.

Generally if you are coming up bechind someone you can solve this problem with "on your left" or "on your right" - and no problems arise.

 

AGE

Put simply, the mean age of snowboarders would probably be 20ish year old males, that could come from a Skate, Wake, Surf background.  In short, to stereotype, you get a certain kind of person - on average.

That you can do nothing about.

post #19 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky View Post

Ullr is a Norse god. To skiers, the god of snow.


Ullr's the god of mild winters: the Scandinavians didn't like huge dumps on their thatched cottages. And Ullr hates snowboarders: every time we sacrifice one, Valhalla has this terrible smell of the hairy unwashed :)

post #20 of 26

Welcome to Epic Chickenpoc. Glad we could get you out of the shadows!

 

You might be surprised how the median age of riders as "aged" over the years. Between the early adopters growing ancient, parents taking it up to be with their kids and old farts like me taking it up because of the need for instructors, the median age of riders is a lot closer to skiing now. The male/female ratio has moved closer from the early days as well.

post #21 of 26

I often ski Aspen Mountain with one of the best boarders on the hill.  He definitely takes different lines and is very cognizant of keeping his speed up.  Aspen has a lot of gravity traverses and a lot of boarders don't like the hill, but Justin does just fine. 

A lot of old timers made a big deal when they opened the hill up to boarders. But in reality, it was a non event.

post #22 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRusty View Post

Welcome to Epic Chickenpoc. Glad we could get you out of the shadows!

 

You might be surprised how the median age of riders as "aged" over the years. Between the early adopters growing ancient, parents taking it up to be with their kids and old farts like me taking it up because of the need for instructors, the median age of riders is a lot closer to skiing now. The male/female ratio has moved closer from the early days as well.


That's been my experience too.  One of the snowboard racers at the NASTAR Nationals this year was 77.  He's got me by eleven years.

 

On the other hand, my "inner child" is only 18.  Here's a short video of myself and a "young" friend (she's only 51) playing on our boards on closing weekend at Okemo a couple of weeks ago.

 

post #23 of 26

Beginners in both sports are unpredictable and annoying. For every snowboarder who is side-slipping down the mountain scraping the snow there is a beginner skier who is snowplowing the snow away. For every snowboarder who's sitting down on a run there's a skier taking a break in a flat area making it difficult for a boarder to carry speed in that area.

 

With being said, I much prefer to be behind another snowboarder because I find their turns easier to predict, especially beginners because their arms start to flail. Skiers on the other hand sometimes look like they're about to turn but continue to traverse and do a long slow drawn out turn making it tough to judge which side I should try to pass them on.

post #24 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by boardalllday View Post

Beginners in both sports are unpredictable and annoying. For every snowboarder who is side-slipping down the mountain scraping the snow there is a beginner skier who is snowplowing the snow away. For every snowboarder who's sitting down on a run there's a skier taking a break in a flat area making it difficult for a boarder to carry speed in that area.

This reminds me of something I've noticed, scrapers tend to push snow straight downhill, whereas snowplougher mostly push snow sideways with little downhill.

There, that's your useless trivia for the day. biggrin.gif
post #25 of 26
...

Edited by deagol - 3/25/14 at 8:35pm
post #26 of 26

So as it's been bumped and ignoring the reactionary BS and getting to the comparison of a like-for-like skier and boarder at upper intermendiate levels and above.  I'd say there's no doubt that skier and boarder would choose to approach the same blank canvas in a different way and it's only by exception they would be doing turns matched for radius and speed. The exceptions might be : where a skier is doing big performance GS turns and the boarder is on a trenchdigging set up, or where tey are both noodling out a soft strip of fluff on the margins of the groom.

 

For skiers thinking like a boarder can help you mine "bonus" deep turns or slashes from wind loaded pockets and help your tactics in tight trees, for boarders thinking like a skier re moguls makes them much much easier.  Thinking like a boarder is also I think a big advantage on modern rockered skis when it comes to expectations of "grip" on hardpack and committing to higher speed bigger radius powder turns.

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