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Factory tune of Dynastar Omeglass WC skis

post #1 of 26
Thread Starter 

Does anyone have experience with the factory tune of these skis (2011)? TIA

post #2 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckT View Post

Does anyone have experience with the factory tune of these skis (2011)? TIA

My experience with the factory "tune" I got on my Dynastar WC skis I had from the same year was it was pretty lame. I had no idea what they even tried to set the edge and base bevel to, as it was all over the place along the length of the ski. This is not to bash Rossi/Dynastar. Every race stock from every company I ever used was pretty much the same from the factory. The expectation from the factory is that if you need race stock, you are going to have it structured and edged to what you want anyway.

 

I typicaly use 0.75 base and 4 side for all my GS, and 0.5 base and 5 side for my Sl skis, regardless of company. Your tastes and needs may vary, but I wouldn't go any more than 0.75 base and any less than 3 side for any race stock.

 

The important thing on technical event skis is not to have too much base edge angle and a sharp, acute side edge angle. Structure and wax plays a much smaller part of their performance. Speed event skis are another animal, where structure selection and wax play a much bigger role than base/side angle selection.

post #3 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainKirk View Post

My experience with the factory "tune" I got on my Dynastar WC skis I had from the same year was it was pretty lame. I had no idea what they even tried to set the edge and base bevel to, as it was all over the place along the length of the ski. This is not to bash Rossi/Dynastar. Every race stock from every company I ever used was pretty much the same from the factory. The expectation from the factory is that if you need race stock, you are going to have it structured and edged to what you want anyway.

 

I typicaly use 0.75 base and 4 side for all my GS, and 0.5 base and 5 side for my Sl skis, regardless of company. Your tastes and needs may vary, but I wouldn't go any more than 0.75 base and any less than 3 side for any race stock.

 

The important thing on technical event skis is not to have too much base edge angle and a sharp, acute side edge angle. Structure and wax plays a much smaller part of their performance. Speed event skis are another animal, where structure selection and wax play a much bigger role than base/side angle selection.

Atomic  comes spot on 1/3 and this is true of the their consumer race & Race Stock skis. Rossis I saw were were unfininshed.

post #4 of 26

I was under the impression that most "FIS" skis come with little or no base and edge bevel because the first thing most racers do is set them to their preferences, and the serious ones do a base flatten and structure anyways. Very few, if any, ski them right out of the box.

post #5 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman View Post

Atomic  comes spot on 1/3 and this is true of the their consumer race & Race Stock skis. Rossis I saw were were unfininshed.

  What year were those rossi's, A-man? Just curious....

 

 

   zenny

post #6 of 26

Dynastar WC skis come unbeveled from the factory.

post #7 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman View Post

Atomic  comes spot on 1/3 and this is true of the their consumer race & Race Stock skis. Rossis I saw were were unfininshed.

yup!  Atomic and Fischer (.7/3 on GS) race stock come excellent out of the box in my experience.  Rossi/Dynastar and Head all seem to need work.  Not sure about Blizzard/Nordica as I have always received them previously prepped.

post #8 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by zentune View Post

  What year were those rossi's, A-man? Just curious....

 

 

   zenny

Can't rememeber, it has been awhile. And I believe there were different levels of "Race Stock/Sponsorship"  and it may also depend on that.

post #9 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeroGravity View Post

I was under the impression that most "FIS" skis come with little or no base and edge bevel because the first thing most racers do is set them to their preferences, and the serious ones do a base flatten and structure anyways. Very few, if any, ski them right out of the box.

Wives Tale!  Not true!

post #10 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScotsSkier View Post

yup!  Atomic and Fischer (.7/3 on GS) race stock come excellent out of the box in my experience.  Rossi/Dynastar and Head all seem to need work.  Not sure about Blizzard/Nordica as I have always received them previously prepped.


That has been my experience too. The Ross/Dynastar race skis I have had in the past had a "rough" tune on them, probably sent through a grinder just to remove left over glue from the moulding process. The Fischer and Atomics came with a much better out of the box tune, however an experienced race tuner would make great improvements on even them with a proper grind and edge setting.

 

As everyone has said, the expectation from all the ski companies is they know an experienced racer will re-grind and re-edge any race stock to a pattern/angles that they know what works best for them in the conditions they typically race in.

 

However, I must say I was looking at this years Rossi/Dynastar race stock, and the out of box tune looked much better than the past. To the point they looked very skiable as is. Raceable is another story, being what I like to feel on my race skis may be  different than what came from the factory.

 

As a rule, my race stock, regardless of the company that I am on, get sent to my race tuner where my prefered structure and edge angles are put on.

 

Once my skis are tuned, I never touch the grind structure and base bevel (unless rock damaged). I just keep the side edge very sharp, as I often race on what amounts to ice. My tuner does such a good job on the base, that I have gone for years without a re-grind as long as I don't get rock damage.


Edited by CaptainKirk - 4/19/13 at 6:14pm
post #11 of 26

Most of REAL world cup race stock skis (those for WC racers not those you buy in (specialized) stores as "WC race stock") come with 0/0. From my personal experience this is true for Fischer, Elan and Rossignol, and I doubt it's much different with other brands. Thing is, WC racers have their servicemen do the angles the way each racer want, and it's much harder to do that, with angles preset to something (whatever degree that would be). That's reason why these skis come without preset angles.

PS: There's big difference between real WC race stock skis and race stock skis, so things could be different with "normal", non-WC race stock.

PS #2: WC skis (at least those for top 30 skiers for example) are not sent back to factory or somewhere else to get tuned. They come with desired structure from factory (most of factories have much better machines to do this then local service has) and serviceman does the angles the way skier is used to. As I wrote, things in WC are "a bit" different then in lower categories or even recreational racing.

post #12 of 26

    My new volkl fis legal sl 165's came 0/0 and with only a minimal structure. There was a sticker on the plastic wrap that said something like "caution: this ski is unfinished...please finish before use". About time, I thoughticon14.gif...

 

 

    zenny

post #13 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by zentune View Post

    My new volkl fis legal sl 165's came 0/0 and with only a minimal structure. There was a sticker on the plastic wrap that said something like "caution: this ski is unfinished...please finish before use". About time, I thoughticon14.gif...

 

 

    zenny

All of our RAce Department Atomics had a sticker on them that said .5/1.5. They were all 1/3, confused.gif

post #14 of 26
huh...yeah, i was skeptical so i verified with svsts pro bevel meter and a true bar...

zenny
post #15 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by zentune View Post

huh...yeah, i was skeptical so i verified with svsts pro bevel meter and a true bar...

zenny

I certainly was not doubting you almighty, all-knowing, omnipotent,  all seeing ZEN-tuner!

 

Just commenting on Atomic's bogus stickers which I verified with the head of the race program at Atomic.

 

Also verified with Pro bevel meter and true bar!biggrin.gif

post #16 of 26
whatever aman...you know as much on these matters as i do...quit bein modest. wink.gif...........biggrin.gif

zenster smile.gif
post #17 of 26

I worked for Dynastar for three years, and most of the WC skis that came out of the race room was a raw edge. Meaning when we send out the skis to the service reps for the racers, they set them according to who is using them. They usually sent out four pairs per athlete for training, pre-run and race. Now depending on which WC you have? there was a WC and then one that looks like a WC, but is a toned down version. The Torsion boxed model that the top sheet looked like a flat top sheet is usually the WC race version. Typically when I asked race service, it was 1/3 or 1/4 depending on the athlete. Its a preference on how you ski, and how aggressive of a skier you are too.

post #18 of 26

FYI, for next season, all race skis, whether its an Atomic or Volkl? they will all have a tip rocker, or carve rocker placed into the skis in order to meet FIS rules. Most of the athletes had to get used to these 2x4's in order to meet the rules, and have to really work hard in order to make them turn regardless of the bevel, so manufacturers next season went a round about way and added a tip rocker to all race skis to allow the racers to turn easier without injuries and not DQ any of the races. To change bevels may also next season change the way the skis ski. So something to think about bevels we know now? may change the skis characteristics on how the skis turn.

post #19 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1exskirep View Post

FYI, for next season, all race skis, whether its an Atomic or Volkl? they will all have a tip rocker, or carve rocker placed into the skis in order to meet FIS rules. Most of the athletes had to get used to these 2x4's in order to meet the rules, and have to really work hard in order to make them turn regardless of the bevel, so manufacturers next season went a round about way and added a tip rocker to all race skis to allow the racers to turn easier without injuries and not DQ any of the races. To change bevels may also next season change the way the skis ski. So something to think about bevels we know now? may change the skis characteristics on how the skis turn.

 

Same bevels, tip rocker or not.

 

Blizzard Bonafide comes form factory 1/3 and has early rise tip.

post #20 of 26

not sure whether this thread is still active, but a question for 1exskirep- 

 

I saw some Dynastar Jr WC race skis in a local shop and noticed that some had some numbers stamped on them near the tail (a serial number?), and others didn't. What do the numbers mean? Does this indicate a difference in the skis - stock vs not? TIA

post #21 of 26

Picture would help, but if it is stamped then it is the serial number

post #22 of 26
Yea, I think it's probably a serial number, but why do some models have a s/n and others don't? They are race skis and look a little different than some of the other race models (different race plate, and different tip cover), I'm just wondering whether having a s/n means something.
post #23 of 26

Good question. I have seen some where you can barely see the serial number, and some are stamped on the sidewall. It's strange that the same model would be different, and as far as I know, there is no such thing as a "race stock" jr ski vs. A "retail" jr ski.

post #24 of 26

I just pulled the plastic off some new 2013 Dynastar race stock GS last night.  Just did a very cursory check but certainly looks like they will need quite a bit of work before they see snow.....

post #25 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScotsSkier View Post
 

I just pulled the plastic off some new 2013 Dynastar race stock GS last night.  Just did a very cursory check but certainly looks like they will need quite a bit of work before they see snow.....

 

 

I didn't prep my son's 2013 Dynastars before he left for Hood this summer, but basically that's the same sentiment the tech who did them had. Had to work hard on them, edges were case hardened etc.

post #26 of 26

I wish all skis came with virgin edges.  Because they have not been passed through a trim disc machine they are not hardened.  So much easier to set the edges with the file!  I wish!  I wish!

I'm doing some new Rossi S7's now.  Tons of work!  Always need tons of work!

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