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Technical Free Skiing Videos - Page 3

post #61 of 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by zentune View Post

What The Dude and Marko said! Furthermore, as long as the arm movement causes no rotary issues, well then......th_dunno-1[1].gif
    This guy skis kind of ok, I guessbiggrin.gif
...but to each their own
smile.gif
.


     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulQYL6PJ3m4

   zenny
That's also how the canadian national team members use the hands in their free skiing clips - maybe less movement, but same pattern.

It may have to do with the fact that the cue for getting forward that I see currently in the CSCF is the "forward pole plant", which does require a swing of some magnitude to be effective I guess - and creates muscle memory. I see the same, a lot on the WC, but in SL you can't quite help it, can you smile.gif in fact that may be the other reason I see it a lot: it mimicks clearing the gate - helps with that muscle memory?

When I picked on Helluva's pole touches was not because of no arm movement, but because they could be more consistent and possibly a bit earlier, especially in the second part of the GS video... When they happen, their form looks good to me, like the rest of the skiing there.

Cheers
post #62 of 495

I LOVE that form and style!  Maybe cuz I'm a Canuck though.....? th_dunno-1[1].gif

post #63 of 495

This thread keeps drawing me back even though I am trying to ignore it and I have tried to resist posting because I know I will get called out for trolling. The problem for me is the whole tone of the OP and subsequent posts about here's some 'free technical vids' for you guys to benefit from my awesomeness when in fact it is quite fine but pretty boring skiing on some pretty boring terrain. If it was put up for some proper genuine MA I would be fine with it but as soon as there is any type of critique, valid as it may, it is rejected and shot down. Sorry, just don't get it?

post #64 of 495

The skiing is full of energy which is managed at such an expert level that those that haven't made these types of turns on RD product can't see it. I find it fascinating that anyone would think of it as boring and lacking in flow.

post #65 of 495

What I should have said, is that to truly excel in any area requires equal parts ambition and humility. It's good to see the OP has got the first part of the equation. We've all got a lot to learn.

post #66 of 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2meke View Post

This thread keeps drawing me back even though I am trying to ignore it and I have tried to resist posting because I know I will get called out for trolling. The problem for me is the whole tone of the OP and subsequent posts about here's some 'free technical vids' for you guys to benefit from my awesomeness when in fact it is quite fine but pretty boring skiing on some pretty boring terrain. If it was put up for some proper genuine MA I would be fine with it but as soon as there is any type of critique, valid as it may, it is rejected and shot down. Sorry, just don't get it?

Likes and dislikes are of course subjective. I find this kind this kind of skiing very exciting and very impressive. It's actually very nice of Helluva to post and discuss it. There are lots of inspiring footage of WC skiers but we don't get to discuss their skiing with them and learn. Thumbs up to Helluva.

 

I'm also very interested in what SkiDude said about patience in transition and will see if I can nudge him to elaborate in another thread.

post #67 of 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skidude72 View Post

 

For clarity...I never said it was about lateral balance....

 

Are you sure about that? I'm sure I read something about lateral balance being the issue with the OP's skiing.

post #68 of 495
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by markojp View Post


Being that some of my favs in their system are from Quebec, I'm guessing they're well versed in effective skiing on hard snow. I think you're on the verge of over estimating the versatility of your current skiing while under estimating theirs.

 

Definitely not on that verge. You're talking about great skiers. I take nothing away from what they do, or their capabilities. They are among the best in the world. I watch a lot of CSIA video to learn from what they do (they are one of the few nations who are putting their skiing out there for all to see). That said, the CSIA D-team itself states that their skiers have not come up through the WC/FIS ranks. Their skiing is inspiring, but things like late releases, airborne transitions, and extending at the top of the turn just to maintain snow contact (as noted earlier in the thread) are not ideal in racing. They look pretty awesome when free skiing though... and those same guys can probably eliminate those things and light it up in a course with no problem, but the movement results would be slightly different... perhaps even "boring", but effective.

post #69 of 495
And that's what it's all about...versatility. Changing and tweaking for the "desired outcome." Good racing never looks boring.
post #70 of 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by markojp View Post

And for the record, I don't think that Mikaela is a physical freak of nature by any means. Driven, well coached, and a very very hard worker. It's her ability to mentally focus on the task at hand that is truly well beyond her years. Time will tell if she can maintain and improve. For now, watching her drills on dartfish not to mention her racing (USSA vids) are absolutely inspiring. 

 

No one said Shiffrin was a physical freak of nature. She has based her technique on the great technicians like Marlies Schild.

 

 

 

You say you prefer Rocca, Shiffin, and Hirscher over Pinturault. Fascinating! They are all top technicians and ski similar to one another with Hirscher taking bigger risks with his incredible recovery skills, Rocca showing rock solid upper body discipline and Pinturault somewhere between the two.

 

 

 

post #71 of 495
ne...heluva demonstrates good race style. weve all said this (though he can work on some things, which i believe he knows). what are you trying to prove here? that every one should at all times ski like a racer?? leave it alone.

zenny
post #72 of 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by NECoach View Post

The skiing is full of energy which is managed at such an expert level that those that haven't made these types of turns on RD product can't see it. I find it fascinating that anyone would think of it as boring and lacking in flow.

 

This assumes much about us and me, Coach.  I can most certainly hook'em up and make it work. When I stopped FIS racing at 18 to go to college and get an education, my points were low enough in SL and GS to qualify for Nor Am starts, but I'm not going to go and beat my chest about it... that was a lifetime ago.  And no, I'm not going to do the master's race thing. I have no interest. Not a lick, though running some gates once in awhile would be fun. I'm more interested in giving back and paying it forward for the next generation, and if I can spend some time on the hill skiing with friends old and new, that's plenty. YMMV and respect your interests even if ours aren't shared.  I do wonder what I've said about the SUBJECTIVE nature of this whole thing that you aren't processing? I'm still not sure what you're trying to prove to me yet alone why. Just let it go.  Go skiing and relax. We're looking at about another 8-10" overnight on top of what fell all day.. It's going to be very very nice. Wish you were here to enjoy it rather than frothing over a keyboard. Let's just agree to disagree and call it good. 

post #73 of 495
What I meant to say before the typo got in the way was, I respect your interests even if they are different than mine. I only sould ask tha tyou extend the same courtesy. There really isn't a 'right' or 'wrong' here, only a lot of great skiing. And yes, Mr. Pinturault is a very fine skier. The OP's a strong skier. I'd like to see evidence of more versatility, but the terrain and his personal goals aren't going to do this... And you know, that's fine too. It's still very nice skiing. I've acknowledged that throughout this thread. Anyhow, into the shower... Time to ski!
post #74 of 495
HeluvaSkier:
I really wish I had more than just the line of bumps shown in the video, but at this point that is all I have. I will be skiing out west at some point next season, so I'm sure I will come back with a lot of footage from that trip. FWIW, I do use the same movement patterns on all terrain. It lets me ski efficiently and at a high level, pretty much everywhere. Access to other terrain is the only thing that limits me...

 

I see that you are from New York state.  As you ski more out west, I believe that you will encounter some snow conditions that you will have to adjust your technique for.  In some consistencies of crud, for example, the actual snow itself will move underneath your skis and your feet will go out from under you, if you push with your edges as much as you do on the groomed.  Or in other words, if you apply the same power with the same leg angles that put your skis on edge at a high angle in some types of snow, the snow itself will move out from under you.  In those snow conditions, I believe you will have to adjust so that your hip is more above your skis and less to the inside of your skis. 

 

Just something to look out for : )

post #75 of 495

If you've made those turns on modern RD product then you know the energy that is in those turns. When that energy is expertly managed the result includes a balanced stable upper body and skis mostly on the snow. That is the visual the expert practitioner can demonstrate.

post #76 of 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by markojp View Post
The OP's a strong skier. I'd like to see evidence of more versatility

 

Have you ever seen a racer at this level that couldn't ski anywhere he wanted? I haven't. Oh sure it might take a few runs to adjust but the fundamentals they have mastered take them anywhere.

post #77 of 495

  NE...could you describe for us in technical terms just what occurs in a carved crossunder race turn? Just curious, as most your posts are "hit and runs"...in this, and other threads.

 

    

 

 

 

 

 

    vonn-aspen-2008-gs-1-01A.jpg

 

   z


Edited by zentune - 4/14/13 at 11:46am
post #78 of 495
NECoach:

Have you ever seen a racer at this level that couldn't ski anywhere he wanted? I haven't.

 

Most racers I have seen are one-dimensional in that they use one technique for everything.  They look like they're racing gates when they're not.  I think that is definitely one type of "lack of versatility".  I've seen a lot of mogul skiers that can only do short-swing turns everywhere else too.  One-dimensional skiers are a lot more common than versatile ones even if they're trained.  I know that some skiers might like the idea of having one technique for everything, but it's still hard to not call it "lack of versatility" when we are either talking about one technique or more than one technique.

 

One day, probably 13 years ago or so, I took about 15 members of the CU freestyle team into the trees (I wasn't on the team).  These were all high level mogul skiers... but I have never seen such an ordeal!  There was only one guy that could link turns in deep stuff in the trees.  EVERYONE else was doing one turn, then falling, then getting stuck, then trying to climb away from a tree trunk, then falling, then getting stuck, then trying climb away from a tree trunk... and on and on...  It was really something.  It was the biggest disaster area I have ever seen with 14 people laying on the ground at any one time LOL.  I have never even seen anything like it when I'm skiing with kids.  I think that a lot skiers (even trained ones) are a lot more one-dimensional than most people would realize.  I am not saying that HeluvaSkier specifically is necessarily one-dimensional.  I'm just talking about skiers in general. 

 

I wasn't sure if post 75 was a response to my post 74 or not. 

post #79 of 495

Blake I said a racer at this level. Most racers are not at this level. Most aren't even close to this level. If a skier can ski anywhere on the mountain at expert speeds in total control then they must be versatile. Who cares if they look like a racer a bumper or something in between?

 

Fascinating that the CU freestyle team had trouble in the trees but that was 13 years ago and equipment has changed.  I ski with high level mogul skiers and they are fast and nimble in any off piste terrain I've seen them ski. When they get on midfat twins they slay the trees.  IMO WC mogul style skiing is a specialized technique that creates versatile skiers.

post #80 of 495

For now, I'll take your silence as a "no".

 

   z

post #81 of 495

I heard you the first time.

post #82 of 495

Ha...the story of the CU team, I can't fathom. The freestyle team? What do you think those guys were doing when they were kids?

Did they just suddenly learn to do freestyle and ski moguls? No those guys on the team, even then, could all ski circles around you.

post #83 of 495
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blake Saunders View Post

 

In those snow conditions, I believe you will have to adjust so that your hip is more above your skis and less to the inside of your skis. 

 

I've spent a lot of time out west... Utah, Colorado, California, Idaho... Not much really needs to change when snow is soft. Watch the below trailer to see how that can be done possible. It is one of my favorite skiing DVDs.

 

post #84 of 495

Not to take anything away from the athleticism here  - but there seems to be a whole lot of racer fantasy going on. Anyone I've ever seen try to ski like that in a deep upside down snowpack, or even just a heavy deep snowpack,  ended up getting their ass handed to them by Ullr. Doubly so if they try it on the kinds of skis that seem to be favored here.

 

As for that latest video - truly painful IMO. 

post #85 of 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by spindrift View Post

Not to take anything away from the athleticism here  - but there seems to be a whole lot of racer fantasy going on. Anyone I've ever seen try to ski like that in a deep upside down snowpack, or even just a heavy deep snowpack,  ended up getting their ass handed to them by Ullr. Doubly so if they try it on the kinds of skis that seem to be favored here.

 

As for that latest video - truly painful IMO. 

 

Fascinating on so many levels.

post #86 of 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by spindrift View Post

Not to take anything away from the athleticism here  - but there seems to be a whole lot of racer fantasy going on. Anyone I've ever seen try to ski like that in a deep upside down snowpack, or even just a heavy deep snowpack,  ended up getting their ass handed to them by Ullr. Doubly so if they try it on the kinds of skis that seem to be favored here.

 

As for that latest video - truly painful IMO. 

 

It baffles me that anyone could find the skiing in the Japanese video "painful," but I suppose to each their own.

 

I read your argument as basically, "I've never seen it, therefore it can't be done." I'm no logician, but that seems shaky. 

 

I've skied with Heluva in a wide variety of off-piste conditions in Colorado. We skied a foot of fresh powder, the ensuing cut-up garbage the day after, trees, chutes, bumps, windpack, nasty breakable crust, and combinations thereof. I can tell you with certainty that skiing like this does work in all of these conditions and terrain. The whole point of learning to ski like Heluva is that you learn one turn that works everywhere. He skied deep crud at Loveland on SL skis with me, as he felt bad that my powder skis had not been mounted yet. I struggled even to get down the mountain on my race skis that day, but he ripped turns as usual. It was a strong demonstration. That was two seasons ago, and he has made major improvements since then. 

 

 There is no fantasy here.


Edited by doublediamond223 - 4/14/13 at 7:40pm
post #87 of 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by zentune View Post

For now, I'll take your silence as a "no".

 

You need a better lure.

 

post #88 of 495
ok ne, heres another one for ya...what happens to our feet biomechanically, as a result of tipping our skis on edge? and as a follow up, how can we use said effect to our advantage when setting up for our turn(s)?

z
post #89 of 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by zentune View Post

ok ne, heres another one for ya...what happens to our feet biomechanically, as a result of tipping our skis on edge? and as a follow up, how can we use said effect to our advantage when setting up for our turn(s)?

z

 

Start a new thread if you want to go fishing. This thread is about the OPs skiing. For trolling you'll need a better lure.

post #90 of 495
... NE, you win.

I like the Japanese vid, but not for your sake. Wind buffed powder can be very fun and is similar to ripping groomers, but better! Anyhow, a terrible day out here in the PNW... I got snow all over my face several times today, and I didn't even fall down. And I used these kind of fat skis in the morning, so i suck. But you know, it sure as hell beats flailing away on a computer keyboard. You ski your way, I'll ski mine.
Edited by markojp - 4/14/13 at 11:20pm
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