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So now that ski seaon is (almost) over, how do you keep your skill during the off season? - Page 6

post #151 of 179
Just another Epic thread that makes skiing not seem appealing at all....
post #152 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by WC68 View Post

Just another Epic thread that makes skiing not seem appealing at all....

 

What does codgers arguing over mountain bikes, inline skates, and slacklining have to do with your interest in skiing?

 

post #153 of 179
yep i skate with my poles in the hills... I look like a freak as I live on the northern beaches of sydney... 6 hours from the snow...but the goggles help mask my embarrassment.
post #154 of 179
Mine? Nothing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metaphor_ View Post

What does codgers arguing over mountain bikes, inline skates, and slacklining have to do with your interest in skiing?


post #155 of 179

I just go outside...

 

Skied here two weeks ago...guess that doesn't count :) Fewer turns for sure but nice hike at the moment! We were a few minutes into the hike here and got to the road at the sharped shaped peak far back ground, center of picture 6 hrs later, It isn't as far as it looks. Only 6 miles as the crows fly and mostly down hill. Fun day out.  Trip is a lot faster on skis mid winter,


Edited by Dane - 7/11/13 at 11:34am
post #156 of 179
Nice Dane!

So at the risk of blowing up this thing again, just got a pict via Lindsey Vonn's FB page of her with-bandaged-knee on a slackline. Yes, I'm sure she's doing more focused rehab, but I would imagine she and her knee will benefit from slack lining as well. Oh boy.
post #157 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by markojp View Post

Nice Dane!

So at the risk of blowing up this thing again, just got a pict via Lindsey Vonn's FB page of her with-bandaged-knee on a slackline. Yes, I'm sure she's doing more focused rehab, but I would imagine she and her knee will benefit from slack lining as well. Oh boy.

She has lots of pictures on her FB page -- sitting on a jetski, slacklining, and several other things with balance and skill demands very different from skiing. 

 

You're giving a classic example of assuming that, because someone does a given activity and excels at another one, that there is skill or physical preparedness crossover directly from one to the other.  Climbers and skiers are both fairly likely to slackline.  It's fun, and a good way to kill time.  It also involves learning to keep your feet directly underneath you on a fairly wobbly, narrow platform.  Skiing involves learning to balance with your hips, in the case of ski racers, dynamically going way away from you, on a fairly firm platform that deviates from flat in lots of ways, relative to the skier, but in ways very different from a slackline.  Climbing is also at least as different from slacklining as skiing, and in some ways more so. 

 

As knee rehab, slacklining ain't exactly part of most rehab, either, though there some types of unstable surface training that are routinely used.  Was this part of Vonn's rehab?  It would be interesting to hear. 

 

This is kind of like taking a picture of a climber SUPing and saying that SUP helps develop skill and conditioning for climbing because it also works your upper body.  Sounds good, but ain't so.   I can put up all sorts of pics of climbers and skiers slacklining...

post #158 of 179

Beating_A_Dead_Horse_by_livius.gif  Kookisgodski.com?

 

What is it that you DON'T understand? HOW MUCH RIGHTEREREREREREST can I personally say you can be? Let me cut and paste myself for you:

 

"Kook is right on the money. Do the things that are the most directly transferable. If you really enjoy them, so much the better."

 

I wasn't trying to provoke you by simply saying LV was slack lining. I SAID CLEARLY that she's undoubtably doing more specific rehab. There is nothing in my last post that challenges ANYTHING you've ever said AT ALL, yet you feel it necessary for your ego to add the " Sounds good, but ain't so.   I can put up all sorts of pics of climbers and skiers slacklining..." 


Edited by markojp - 7/12/13 at 9:24am
post #159 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by markojp View Post

Kook, would you just knock it off ?   

 

What is it that you DON'T understand? HOW MUCH RIGHTERERERERER can I personally say you can be? Let me cut and paste myself for you:

 

"Kook is right on the money. Do the things that are the most directly transferable. If you really enjoy them, so much the better."

 

I wasn't trying to provoke you by simply saying LV was slack lining. I SAID CLEARLY that she's undoubtably doing more specific rehab. There is nothing in my last post that challenges ANYTHING you've ever said AT ALL. And yes, I AM E-YELLING AT YOU.

And again you resort to a personal attack. 

 

I was responding, substantively, to your assertion that, because you saw a FB pic of Vonn slacklining, that you imagined she and her knee would benefit from slacklining.  If you don't want to discuss, on a substantive level, whether your assertion holds up, or not, you can always not post.  Discussing the specifics of slacklining as they relate to maintaining or developing skiing skill is completely on-topic for the thread, and directly responsive to your post, so for my part there is nothing to "knock off," as you put it.

 

Your yelling, along with the personal attacks, is a common internet tactic by people who don't want substantive discussion to occur.

post #160 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by segbrown View Post

I meant between core strength or balance... but no matter.

 

So, where I'm coming from ... and it isn't necessarily ski-related, but a little bit. Sometimes I feel like my strength suffers before my balance does. I still have the speed and balance to write checks that my body can't cash, in other words. Don't know if I should work harder on strength or just accept my age. ;-)

On a positive note, this type of question is an interesting one.  Segbrown seems focused on core strength, as opposed to strength overall.  Core strength and/or core endurance could in fact be issues in a specific case, but:  so far studies have found only weak correlations between core fitness and performance (either sports-specific performance, or general tests of strength, power or endurance -- though some of the studies have had odd designs and correlations might ultimately be stronger than current studies suggest). 

 

E-diagnosis of an issue is always tough.  Is this a case of not being able to handle the forces that build at the end of a big turn as well as happened in the past, and if so, are legs collapsing or are you finding it harder to maintain angulation and counter or otherwise succumbing more to the balance-disrupting forces of the turn?  Are you getting tossed by crud more than in the past?  Has there been a change in either number and quality of on-snow days over the last couple seasons, or in your off-season activities?  Etc.

 

It also helps to have a baseline not just of on-snow performance, but where you are on things like aerobic fitness.  Numbers off of a bike are useful in this regard.  Stemming from a general description of someone feeling they have a strength deficit, if you take 3 people who feel the same description applies to them, one person could benefit most from spinning on a bike to improve their endurance, another from single-leg work and targeted skiing/skating/biking etc. drills, and another from, yes, some targeted core work and maybe dynamic trail running and tramp time.  One of the cool parts of skiing is the number of different factors at work.

post #161 of 179

Yes. Her knee will benefit from slack lining as she's firing all muscles in her leg to maintain balance. She's building joint stability. Are there things more directly related to skiing. I'm sure there are. Will time in the weight room/rehab center/slack lining/etc... there are things she most likely needs to do before she can do other activities that will place more demand on her knee and before she can ski at full strength. She does these because they are the necessary PRELIMINARY steps to full recovery. All these activities have a roll in her skiing. Some are more directly transferable than others. That's my opinion. It's only my opinion. I'm not selling a product or ideology. I think 99.9% of people here on the site are aware of that. 

 

Trouble is Kook, there doesn't appear to be anything 'substantive'  in your world to discuss that isn't a simple and direct restatement of your opinion. You're looking for lock step affirmation. What I know is this; whenever you get your jaws onto a thread, you'll keep shaking it long after it's dead and strewn around the block in pieces. Again, there's the little red flag lower left. When I offend you, please use it. If the mods see fit, they'll ban me.  

 

Ok, I'm off... much much better use of time to be had than puttering about here.

post #162 of 179

Let's  say we have Sport 1 that is sort of transferable to skiing.    Let's say that we are _not_ going to train to a competitive peak in Sport 1. 

 

The question then becomes: what do we pick to complement Sport 1 for the off hours that would normally be reserved for peaking in Sport 1 and recovering from Sport 1?

 

Do we pick something directly complementary to Sport 1 (skating and ... climbing frex)  or do we pick something that is also transferable to skiing?

post #163 of 179

easy, just keep drinking....beercheer.gif

post #164 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by cantunamunch View Post

Let's  say we have Sport 1 that is sort of transferable to skiing.    Let's say that we are _not_ going to train to a competitive peak in Sport 1. 

The question then becomes: what do we pick to complement Sport 1 for the off hours that would normally be reserved for peaking in Sport 1 and recovering from Sport 1?

Do we pick something directly complementary to Sport 1 (skating and ... climbing frex)  or do we pick something that is also transferable to skiing?

In general and ONLY speaking for myself, I do what I enjoy doing and what happens to fall within the time constraints and physical access with the primary focus being on all around physical (and mental) fitness. YMMV. You have my permission and you don't even need it! smile.gif

If you want the most benefit and bang per calorie burnt for skiing for skiing, follow Kook's advice. He's correct.. Roller blading,etc.... The only point I may disagree specifically with the Kook is the relative necessity for and benefits from weight training. I'm a proponent, Kook may not be. I think it's critical for both strength and injury prevention. This is only MHO.
post #165 of 179

How about cutting through the HS?  duel.gif

 

If you want to get better/stronger at skiing...ski.  If you want to get better at climbing, climb.  And on and on.

Much of that specificity is learning to be efficient.  Skiing like climbing is much easeir if you have good technique and are able to save your strength until it is needed.  Being strong lowers the chances of injury.  Being stronger is always better no matter what sport you are doing.  Adding weight may not be an advantage.

 

At least that is what the USST coaches were saying back in the 70s. 

 

More here:

http://sportsmedicine.about.com/od/glossary/g/Specificity_def.htm

 

Fitness and down hill skiing specifically?  If you want to be fit down hill skiing is not the sport to develope or maintain fitness.

 

Just aint, sorry.  It is why there are a gazillion more down hill skiers than their are back country skiers.  a gazzillion more B/C skiers than climbers.   And why we can ski into our 80s and not feel like complete duffs on the hill.

 

Aything from walking, hiking, running, bike riding , cross fit, even swimming or any sort of climbing (including in the gym) will better your skiing.  Balance and technique are always good things to work on.  But you really want to better your skiing?  Take a lesson, and ski more.  What to better your skiing in the summer?  Run down hill at your local ski area and then turn around and run back up the hill as well.  You'll get  better at skiing a LOT faster mimicing skiing.

 

I do all sorts of stuff from climbing, bikes and tris year around.  And I am well on the north side of 50.  Worst shape I've been in well over a decade  was taking the winter off from everything else and just skiing.  Skiing hard a couple days a week mind you.  Part of that was a good bit of back country skiing/skiing as well.   The worst shape EVER. ( second only to my time with chemo)  But I did get in damn good skiing shape.  Which in the grand scheme of things means shite....as in NOTHING by comparison to being in any sort of decent shape.

 

Just about anything you do physically will better your skiing......'cuz it just aint that hard to slide down the hill unroped popcorn.gif.

 

Me doing what I do best Nov/Jan as the coverage builds on the local ski hills..snowfight.gif

 

http://coldthistle.blogspot.com/

post #166 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScotsSkier View Post

easy, just keep drinking....beercheer.gif

 

Oh, my, yes, in fact I have some long slow distance work scheduled for that next week.  

 

Don't want to peak too early though.

post #167 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane View Post

...

Fitness and down hill skiing specifically?  If you want to be fit down hill skiing is not the sport to develope or maintain fitness.

 

Just aint, sorry.  It is why there are a gazillion more down hill skiers than their are back country skiers.  a gazzillion more B/C skiers than climbers.   And why we can ski into our 80s and not feel like complete duffs on the hill.

...

Just about anything you do physically will better your skiing......'cuz it just aint that hard to slide down the hill unroped popcorn.gif.

 

Determined to rush to the defense of skiing as valid exercise, I immediately hopped onto google. Mayo Clinic finds that "skiing" burns ~314 calories per hour. This number is on par with walking at 3.5miles/hr, or golfing while carrying clubs for an hour. While that's twice as many calories burned as sitting in a coma or watching TV, it's still underwhelming to think one gets the same workout from golfing or walking.

 

However, one generally skis for more than an hour at a time, so perhaps a case can still be made that your overall calorie consumption for the day indicates skiing can help less active people to develop their level of fitness. Also, we don't really know how they collected this data - but my guess is they sampled average intermediate skiers cruising down greens and blues. 

 

There's a big difference between Joe Sixpack cruising the blues, Bob Bumper spending his day in moguls, and Richie Racer hitting gates. If you get home from skiing and just want to fall asleep, I'd bet that you've gotten a good workout. (Or you're dehydrated.)

post #168 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metaphor_ View Post
 If you get home from skiing and just want to fall asleep, I'd bet that you've gotten a good workout. (Or you're dehydrated.)

 

...or your metabolism is completely unused to long-period low-grade exercise with occasional burst efforts and your blood sugar is barely creeping along above an official bonk, or... biggrin.gif

post #169 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metaphor_ View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane View Post

...

Fitness and down hill skiing specifically?  If you want to be fit down hill skiing is not the sport to develope or maintain fitness.

 

Just aint, sorry.  It is why there are a gazillion more down hill skiers than their are back country skiers.  a gazzillion more B/C skiers than climbers.   And why we can ski into our 80s and not feel like complete duffs on the hill.

...

Just about anything you do physically will better your skiing......'cuz it just aint that hard to slide down the hill unroped popcorn.gif.

 

Determined to rush to the defense of skiing as valid exercise, I immediately hopped onto google. Mayo Clinic finds that "skiing" burns ~314 calories per hour. This number is on par with walking at 3.5miles/hr, or golfing while carrying clubs for an hour. While that's twice as many calories burned as sitting in a coma or watching TV, it's still underwhelming to think one gets the same workout from golfing or walking.

 

However, one generally skis for more than an hour at a time, so perhaps a case can still be made that your overall calorie consumption for the day indicates skiing can help less active people to develop their level of fitness. Also, we don't really know how they collected this data - but my guess is they sampled average intermediate skiers cruising down greens and blues. 

 

There's a big difference between Joe Sixpack cruising the blues, Bob Bumper spending his day in moguls, and Richie Racer hitting gates. If you get home from skiing and just want to fall asleep, I'd bet that you've gotten a good workout. (Or you're dehydrated.)

As fitness in general there are better activities, more aerobic, more complete (upper lower body), more explosive. Skiing is just cooler than the others ;)

post #170 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metaphor_ View Post

 

Determined to rush to the defense of skiing as valid exercise, I immediately hopped onto google. Mayo Clinic finds that "skiing" burns ~314 calories per hour. This number is on par with walking at 3.5miles/hr, or golfing while carrying clubs for an hour. While that's twice as many calories burned as sitting in a coma or watching TV, it's still underwhelming to think one gets the same workout from golfing or walking.

 

However, one generally skis for more than an hour at a time, so perhaps a case can still be made that your overall calorie consumption for the day indicates skiing can help less active people to develop their level of fitness. Also, we don't really know how they collected this data - but my guess is they sampled average intermediate skiers cruising down greens and blues. 

 

There's a big difference between Joe Sixpack cruising the blues, Bob Bumper spending his day in moguls, and Richie Racer hitting gates. If you get home from skiing and just want to fall asleep, I'd bet that you've gotten a good workout. (Or you're dehydrated.)

 

That same Mayo chart has XC skiing burning only 500 calories/hour for a lightweight person.  Let's say most people ski lift-served for 4 hours a day, and XC ski no more than two hours a day.  They burn then roughly 1200 calories skiing  lift-serve, and roughly 1k xc. 

 

Viewed in terms of interval training, let's say the average run is maybe between 2 and 10 minutes for smaller areas, and 5 and 20 minutes at larger areas.  If someone tells me that they went to the track and did 10-15 reps of 5 minutes running each, with exertion hard enough to make carrying a conversation possible but a little strained, I'd say they got a relatively good workout.  Cantunamunch's reference to possibly bonking is accurate.  It doesn't mean the skiing is good training for bike racing, etc., but does among other things explain why ski racers train on bikes.

post #171 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metaphor_ View Post

 

Determined to rush to the defense of skiing as valid exercise, I immediately hopped onto google. Mayo Clinic finds that "skiing" burns ~314 calories per hour. This number is on par with walking at 3.5miles/hr, or golfing while carrying clubs for an hour. While that's twice as many calories burned as sitting in a coma or watching TV, it's still underwhelming to think one gets the same workout from golfing or walking.

 

However, one generally skis for more than an hour at a time, so perhaps a case can still be made that your overall calorie consumption for the day indicates skiing can help less active people to develop their level of fitness. Also, we don't really know how they collected this data - but my guess is they sampled average intermediate skiers cruising down greens and blues. 

 

There's a big difference between Joe Sixpack cruising the blues, Bob Bumper spending his day in moguls, and Richie Racer hitting gates. If you get home from skiing and just want to fall asleep, I'd bet that you've gotten a good workout. (Or you're dehydrated.)

 

Not to mention teaching beginners in a wedge on the bunny slopes ... surprisingly draining, especially when you have to skate repeatedly up the hill to them.  It's exhausting.

post #172 of 179

If you can smoke and drink whilst you are doing it, it's not a sport;

 

Golf

Bowling

Darts

Hunting

Poker

Sailing

........................skiing?

post #173 of 179

" that's twice as many calories burned as sitting in a coma or watching TV"

 

Pretty much figured that out this spring when I did a Oly tri "off the couch"...after my awesome winter of skiing.    "Off the couch", I sucked...really bad roflmao.gif

 

I train with a heart rate monitor and power on a regular basis.  1000 cal an hour is not unheard of on a hard workout.  I'm 190# FWIW.

 

"perhaps a case can still be made that your overall calorie consumption for the day indicates skiing can help less active people to develop their level of fitness"

 

No doubt any exercise is GOOD!  Even skiing!

 

But let's be honest biggrin.gif   Not sure what you guys are eating but when I go skiing I like a little lunch.  This one was mid hill at Les Grand Montets after getting up early, skiing into, climbing and skiing back out of the Argentière Basin.   Desert was chocolate Mouse.  I put in a full day prior to lunch and bet I still didn't burn what I ate.  My guess is the typical adult male past 20 years old, has almost zero chance of actually bonking from a lack of food down hill skiing.  Tired from lack of sleep, dehydration and having to actually concentrate maybe.

 

 

Chamonix summit.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love skiing.  

And I wish it would burn 1000 calories an hour when ever I wanted.  But even at the biggest areas that might require over an hour to get down....will take another hour of doing nothing to get back up for round two.   If you figure out the down time riding lifts the faster you go down the more time you'll spend on the lift getting back up at most ski areas.  For most well over half your day is spent sitting down.  And exactly why I really enjoyed myself this winter.  It was easy.

 

Sport?  Drinking and smoking has a long history in a lot of sportshijack2.gif

Hard rock climbing in flip flops, unroped, beer in hand being one of them.

 

post #174 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane View Post

 

Sport?  Drinking and smoking has a long history in a lot of sportshijack2.gif

Hard rock climbing in flip flops, unroped, beer in hand being one of them.

 

 

Give that man a smoke.

post #175 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by CTKook View Post

 

Viewed in terms of interval training, let's say the average run is maybe between 2 and 10 minutes for smaller areas, and 5 and 20 minutes at larger areas.  If someone tells me that they went to the track and did 10-15 reps of 5 minutes running each, with exertion hard enough to make carrying a conversation possible but a little strained, I'd say they got a relatively good workout.  

 

I've worn a heart rate monitor skiing out of curiosity.  Skiing CAN be similar to intervals at the track, but you have to work at it.  You have to ski hard and stop infrequently, if ever, to get your heart rate up skiing.   Unlike most skiers, I suspect many folks here get a pretty good workout skiing.   

 

I know I'm in good skiing shape when I can ski a very long bump run that is my test from top to bottom.  My heart rate will be at 85-95% and my legs burning from lactic acid at the bottom of the run.   

 

Relevant to specificity, there is no way I can ski that run top to bottom until I've skied enough to get into skiing shape.  Skiing is very specific.  But, I'm also pretty sure there is no way I could ski that run top to bottom, no matter how much I skied, if I didn't come into the season in great shape from off-season training.  It really takes both...  which is why you see the ski racers train the way they do.


Edited by tball - 7/12/13 at 7:27pm
post #176 of 179

This now seems relevant to this discussion...

 

post #177 of 179

wHO IS THE pRESIDENT OF THE uNITED sTATES?

 

iS iT  sNOWING aNY wHeREski.gif yET

post #178 of 179
That vid is the best case ever for high speed lifts.
post #179 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoebag View Post

If you can smoke and drink whilst you are doing it, it's not a sport;

Golf
Bowling
Darts
Hunting
Poker
Sailing
........................skiing?

Have you seen an Olympic Finn sailor recently? Or any of the AC dudes? smile.gif

(But I get your point.)
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