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So now that ski seaon is (almost) over, how do you keep your skill during the off season? - Page 5

post #121 of 179

I'm sorry but CTKook has a point. 
Specificity of training is very important, some skills do not transfer over to other sports. Lot's of "new-age" training methods are popping up left and right... most of them are great marketing campaigns and nothing more.
If you want to be a good basketball player you need to shoot all day long. playing tennis wont help you. 
Slack lines are great for balance, but it's not the same balance you need to ski. Being a great slack liner won't make you a great skier. 
To be a better skier you need to ski, period.
You can complement your training with other things to make you a well rounded athlete, but the intrinsic skills of skiing can only be learned, developed, and perfected with skiing.

post #122 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by jzamp View Post

If you want to be a good basketball player you need to shoot all day long. playing tennis wont help you. 
 

 

Totally disagree.  Both require extreme fitness, core strength and quick direction changes.  Now, does it make more sense to just play basketball instead of tennis?  Of course.  But if you took two people of equal skill and one sat on the couch in his off time while the other played tennis, I guarantee you the tennis player would kick his ass in a one-on-one game.  Any activity that builds your core strength and refines your athleticism will help you in just about any sport.

 

Ever notice how many of the best pro athletes grew up being recruited for multiple sports?  There's a reason for that.

post #123 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by markojp View Post

 

Stop it. You've done this to everyone on the forum that you argue with... which is pretty damned near everyone and always. Please quote exactly where I ever said inline skating isn't good for skiing.  What IS it about " you're not wrong" that I said a few posts ago (#96 to be exact) that you DON'T understand? Would you prefer that I simply stopped posting on the forum to protect other's from ideas that are not in perfect conformity to your own? Let me know... I'll be happy to comply. Life is way to short to piss around with the likes of you.

 

For what it's worth, CTKook's made statements that are reasonable to me, as a ski instructor, level 1 race coach (not very high, I know), snowboard instructor, and sliding sports enthusiast from a cross-training and skill development perspective; Ctkook also just appeared to be reinforcing Shoebag's commitment (and encouraging him). Markojp, I didn't get the impression he was attacking you in any way. 

 

The problem I think people have with inline skating (and MarkoJP, I'm not saying you have aired any such grievance) is they think back to the 90s and remember hordes of clumsy goobers in fluorescent-coloured spandex shorts and headbands, clogging up roadways, pathways and sidewalks doing uncoordinated, lumbering duck-walks. Imagine if 90% of skiers rode in a braking wedge--surely skiing would get a poor image too. Skating's image issue is exacerbated by a lack of high-level instructors (due to lack of interest), so few people have ever unlocked their full potential. 

 

BTW, for anyone in the Vancouver area until the end of this month, or Toronto from August onward, I'd be thrilled to go through some skate-to-ski exercises. (or cone skating, or speed, or some easy bowls...)


Edited by Metaphor_ - 7/3/13 at 5:30pm
post #124 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayT View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzamp View Post

If you want to be a good basketball player you need to shoot all day long. playing tennis wont help you. 
 

 

Totally disagree.  Both require extreme fitness, core strength and quick direction changes.  Now, does it make more sense to just play basketball instead of tennis?  Of course.  But if you took two people of equal skill and one sat on the couch in his off time while the other played tennis, I guarantee you the tennis player would kick his ass in a one-on-one game.  Any activity that builds your core strength and refines your athleticism will help you in just about any sport.

 

Ever notice how many of the best pro athletes grew up being recruited for multiple sports?  There's a reason for that.

Yes and it's not what you think...
The reason why it's because they are specimens, one of a kind humans

post #125 of 179

   As per Wikipedia's definition (bolded part added by me):

 

    "Cross-training (also known as circuit training) refers to an athlete training in sports other than the one that athlete competes in with a goal of improving overall performance. It takes advantage of the particular effectiveness of each training method, while at the same time attempting to negate the shortcomings of that method by combining it with other methods that address its weaknesses."

 

  It's beneficial to branch out for those of us who don't get 150+ days a year...it keeps us "on our toes", so to speak.  Perhaps Jzmtl, after only 6 years of skiing (which isn't very many TBH), has some areas in his overall conditioning he needs to address. Just sayin'...

 

  zenny


Edited by zentune - 7/3/13 at 6:26pm
post #126 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by jzamp View Post

Yes and it's not what you think...
The reason why it's because they are specimens, one of a kind humans

 

Yes, but most of them will tell you that having a well-rounded athletic experience throughout the year elevates their performance in all of those sports.  There's also a ton of research and data that supports this.  There's a good reason that the best free-skiers tend to also be really good mountain-bikers.

post #127 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by zentune View Post

   As per Wikipedia's definition (bolded part added by me):

 

    "Cross-training (also known as circuit training) refers to an athlete training in sports other than the one that athlete competes in with a goal of improving overall performance. It takes advantage of the particular effectiveness of each training method, while at the same time attempting to negate the shortcomings of that method by combining it with other methods that address its weaknesses."

 

  It's beneficial to branch out for those of us who don't get 150+ days a year...it keeps us "on our toes", so to speak.  Perhaps Jzmtl, after only 6 years of skiing (which isn't very many TBH), has some areas in his overall conditioning he needs to address. Just sayin'... 

 

  zenny

Circuit training is not cross training. 
Circuit training is a training protocol in which you perform a series of exercises in rapid succession with minimal rest in between; these exercises are then repeated creating the "circuit".
Cross training refers to supplementing one's training with exercises from other disciplines. This is done to create a more complete set of skills, which could be beneficial because the athlete can grab skills from other disciplines and use them in his/her native sport. (it is also done to avoid getting bored)
Cross training does not directly influence the skills specific to the athlete's sport. This is unless the two activities are closely related: both are swinging motions, both are throwing motions, both are hand eye coordination tasks. 
Balance is one skill that is not transferable. Balance if a function of fine motor control and perception. It is developed by learning how to control specific muscles in a specific environment. When these are taken into a different environment the body needs to learn how to balance again.

That said, if one trains in anything he/she will be better than one who does not. But rather than pursuing the newest fad, I would suggest to focus on activities that are closer to skiing.
A good example would be skiers edge, movements are similar, balance is similar (if done without poles).

Also, keep in mind the danger level of the activity you pick; since none of the members here are professional skiers, is it worth to risk an injury by slack lining in boots (yes it is possible)? Whats wrong with working balance on bosu balls, and similar? you can make it very difficult if you want...

Final thought,
How much balance do you really need skiing? especially how much single leg balance? IMO training core strength is much more important...

PS sorry for picking on balance and slack line, this is obviously a more general concept... those 2 are just easier to explain.

 

post #128 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayT View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzamp View Post

Yes and it's not what you think...
The reason why it's because they are specimens, one of a kind humans

 

Yes, but most of them will tell you that having a well-rounded athletic experience throughout the year elevates their performance in all of those sports.  There's also a ton of research and data that supports this.  There's a good reason that the best free-skiers tend to also be really good mountain-bikers.

JayT I've gone a little more in-depth in the the post above.
The question is do their skiing skills improve? or is it their performance? it's subtle difference but it's important.
Are you a better 3 point shooter because you played football? no. You are a good 3 point shooter because you shot a thousand times every day for 20 years.
Are you a better athlete? yes. Why? because your "bags of tricks" is deeper. That's the difference. 

post #129 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by jzamp View Post

JayT I've gone a little more in-depth in the the post above.
The question is do their skiing skills improve? or is it their performance? it's subtle difference but it's important.
Are you a better 3 point shooter because you played football? no. You are a good 3 point shooter because you shot a thousand times every day for 20 years.
Are you a better athlete? yes. Why? because your "bags of tricks" is deeper. That's the difference. 

 

Sure, but it's all good, right?  And arguing about such things is silly.

 

I agree core strength is key, hence MTB being so good for skiers in the off season.  Some of the downhill experience translates obviously (quick moves, how much pressure can you put on your wheels just like a sharp turn on skis), but I think the core strength from those uphill climbs is even more beneficial.

 

Be active.  Keep moving.  It all adds up and you'll be better at whatever it is you're trying to do.

post #130 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayT View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzamp View Post

JayT I've gone a little more in-depth in the the post above.
The question is do their skiing skills improve? or is it their performance? it's subtle difference but it's important.
Are you a better 3 point shooter because you played football? no. You are a good 3 point shooter because you shot a thousand times every day for 20 years.
Are you a better athlete? yes. Why? because your "bags of tricks" is deeper. That's the difference. 

 

Sure, but it's all good, right?  And arguing about such things is silly.

 

I agree core strength is key, hence MTB being so good for skiers in the off season.  Some of the downhill experience translates obviously (quick moves, how much pressure can you put on your wheels just like a sharp turn on skis), but I think the core strength from those uphill climbs is even more beneficial.

 

Be active.  Keep moving.  It all adds up and you'll be better at whatever it is you're trying to do.

without a doubt! 

And there's also a lot of personal preference...

My philosophy is to minimize waste of time. This is because I just don't have the time to do all the "cool" stuff, so I like to focus on the things that are as closely related to skiing as possible. 

 

post #131 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by jzamp View Post

Circuit training is not cross training. 
Circuit training is a training protocol in which you perform a series of exercises in rapid succession with minimal rest in between; these exercises are then repeated creating the "circuit".
Cross training refers to supplementing one's training with exercises from other disciplines. This is done to create a more complete set of skills, which could be beneficial because the athlete can grab skills from other disciplines and use them in his/her native sport. (it is also done to avoid getting bored)
Cross training does not directly influence the skills specific to the athlete's sport. This is unless the two activities are closely related: both are swinging motions, both are throwing motions, both are hand eye coordination tasks. 
Balance is one skill that is not transferable. Balance if a function of fine motor control and perception. It is developed by learning how to control specific muscles in a specific environment. When these are taken into a different environment the body needs to learn how to balance again.

That said, if one trains in anything he/she will be better than one who does not. But rather than pursuing the newest fad, I would suggest to focus on activities that are closer to skiing.
A good example would be skiers edge, movements are similar, balance is similar (if done without poles).

Also, keep in mind the danger level of the activity you pick; since none of the members here are professional skiers, is it worth to risk an injury by slack lining in boots (yes it is possible)? Whats wrong with working balance on bosu balls, and similar? you can make it very difficult if you want...

Final thought,
How much balance do you really need skiing? especially how much single leg balance? IMO training core strength is much more important...

PS sorry for picking on balance and slack line, this is obviously a more general concept... those 2 are just easier to explain.

 

 

What is the relationship between core strength and balance?

post #132 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by jzamp View Post

Circuit training is not cross training.  I know...it was a quote pulled directly from Wikipedia--I didn't want to alter it.
Final thought,
How much balance do you really need skiing? especially how much single leg balance? IMO training core strength is much more important...Which is why some here have argued for activities like climbing, for instance. Great for the core AND legs. Plus, I know I'm not the only one here who has done one-legged skiing drills...Then there's the whole fore/aft/lateral balancing thing. Not tryin' to bust chops, but...

 

    zenny

post #133 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by segbrown View Post

 

What is the relationship between core strength and balance?

 

The ability to have the strength needed to stay in balance.

post #134 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by segbrown View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzamp View Post

Circuit training is not cross training. 
Circuit training is a training protocol in which you perform a series of exercises in rapid succession with minimal rest in between; these exercises are then repeated creating the "circuit".
Cross training refers to supplementing one's training with exercises from other disciplines. This is done to create a more complete set of skills, which could be beneficial because the athlete can grab skills from other disciplines and use them in his/her native sport. (it is also done to avoid getting bored)
Cross training does not directly influence the skills specific to the athlete's sport. This is unless the two activities are closely related: both are swinging motions, both are throwing motions, both are hand eye coordination tasks. 
Balance is one skill that is not transferable. Balance if a function of fine motor control and perception. It is developed by learning how to control specific muscles in a specific environment. When these are taken into a different environment the body needs to learn how to balance again.

That said, if one trains in anything he/she will be better than one who does not. But rather than pursuing the newest fad, I would suggest to focus on activities that are closer to skiing.
A good example would be skiers edge, movements are similar, balance is similar (if done without poles).

Also, keep in mind the danger level of the activity you pick; since none of the members here are professional skiers, is it worth to risk an injury by slack lining in boots (yes it is possible)? Whats wrong with working balance on bosu balls, and similar? you can make it very difficult if you want...

Final thought,
How much balance do you really need skiing? especially how much single leg balance? IMO training core strength is much more important...

PS sorry for picking on balance and slack line, this is obviously a more general concept... those 2 are just easier to explain.

 

 

What is the relationship between core strength and balance?

Great question segbrown.
I would like to argue that, in a dynamic setting, core strength is fundamental to balance and performance. This is because a strong core allows you to maintain proper mechanics and cope with the forces generated by your sport.

In a static setting, or traditional balance, (standing on one leg type of things) it is more a matter of proprioception, feeling your body position in space and constantly adjusting it through muscle activation.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zentune View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzamp View Post

Circuit training is not cross training.  I know...it was a quote pulled directly from Wikipedia--I didn't want to alter it.
Final thought,
How much balance do you really need skiing? especially how much single leg balance? IMO training core strength is much more important...Which is why some here have argued for activities like climbing, for instance. Great for the core AND legs.

 

    zenny

I agree zenny, I just wanted to point out that CTKook had a point, and wasn't just arguing for the sake of it.
But you have to admit that there is very little cross over between climbing and skiing. wink.gif
 

post #135 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by jzamp View Post

 

I agree zenny, I just wanted to point out that CTKook had a point, and wasn't just arguing for the sake of it.
But you have to admit that there is very little cross over between climbing and skiing. wink.gif
 

  Agreed. But neither would I consider climbing to be a detriment to skiing...more of a "plus" than a "negative". Same could be said for slacklining. Or playing basketball, or tennis, or hiking, or....smile.gif

 

 

     zenny

post #136 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by jzamp View Post


Balance is one skill that is not transferable. Balance if a function of fine motor control and perception. It is developed by learning how to control specific muscles in a specific environment. When these are taken into a different environment the body needs to learn how to balance again.


 

 

 

With respect, I do believe that improving balance in one modality will eventually transfer to another. Maybe not immediately or specifically, but certainly in general. My new ability to keep my skates underneath me on transitions in the skate park cannot possibly be detrimental to my fore/aft balance on skis. JIMESHO.

post #137 of 179
Originally Posted by zentune View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzamp View Post

 

I agree zenny, I just wanted to point out that CTKook had a point, and wasn't just arguing for the sake of it.
But you have to admit that there is very little cross over between climbing and skiing. wink.gif
 

  Agreed. But neither would I consider climbing to be a detriment to skiing...more of a "plus" than a "negative". Same could be said for slacklining. Or playing basketball, or tennis, or hiking, or....smile.gif

 

 

     zenny

 


depends on the how you see training. 
To me it could be...
for example if you are going rock climbing every day in the summer with the hope to win the WC the next year you are wasting your time. Your forearms will be steel, your grip will be beast, but your skiing will be at best the same.

Obvious exaggeration but there are people out there suggesting things like that. As someone in this field, and I believe CTKook is as well, I feel obligated to shed some light on the subject smile.gif

post #138 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoebag View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzamp View Post


Balance is one skill that is not transferable. Balance if a function of fine motor control and perception. It is developed by learning how to control specific muscles in a specific environment. When these are taken into a different environment the body needs to learn how to balance again.


 

 

 

With respect, I do believe that improving balance in one modality will eventually transfer to another. Maybe not immediately or specifically, but certainly in general. My new ability to keep my skates underneath me on transitions in the skate park cannot possibly be detrimental to my fore/aft balance on skis. JIMESHO.

Shoebag,
you missed the previous sentence...
In your case many of the movements you do with inline skating are closely related to skiing. Therefore there will be a transfer between the two. Same reason why good skateboarders are usually good snowboarders, and surfers. 

post #139 of 179

My answer to segbrown's question / statement...

 

Core strength doesn't help your balance, it helps you find it when you're off balance.

post #140 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by CTKook View Post

Meantime, in the real world, it still ain't controversial, at all, that "aggressive" inline is great crosstraining for park skiing.  And not pompous, at all, to note that.

 

So...

 

I used to inline just for ski muscle fitness, and presumed it wouldn't hurt my balance. Making the switch to aggressive inline was primarily to let me practice park skills like jumping on to rails and grinding, but there is more to it than that. Dropping in requires foot containment and jumping gaps requires body control. What I didn't expect was the challenge to keep your fore/aft balance on the transitions in the park. I base my skiing style around a balanced, centered stance and aggressive inline is proving to be the perfect modality to learn to stay centered, or you are eating concrete.

post #141 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by jzamp View Post


depends on the how you see training. 
To me it could be...
for example if you are going rock climbing every day in the summer with the hope to win the WC the next year you are wasting your time. Your forearms will be steel, your grip will be beast, but your skiing will be at best the same.

Obvious exaggeration but there are people out there suggesting things like that. As someone in this field, and I believe CTKook is as well, I feel obligated to shed some light on the subject smile.gif

  I, for one, certainly would not suggest rock climbing every day (imagine how strong your starts would be though biggrin.gif). I'm more in favor of a well rounded approach to preparing for the season, though I'm not in "the field" (are you a personal trainer?). 

 

      zenny

post #142 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by jzamp View Post

Shoebag,
you missed the previous sentence...
In your case many of the movements you do with inline skating are closely related to skiing. Therefore there will be a transfer between the two. Same reason why good skateboarders are usually good snowboarders, and surfers. 

Sorry,

 

Guess I was a little zealous with the backspace button.

 

I'll give you a thumbs up so you can sell some old gear in the swap forum next season.icon14.gif

post #143 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by jzamp View Post

Great question segbrown.
I would like to argue that, in a dynamic setting, core strength is fundamental to balance and performance. This is because a strong core allows you to maintain proper mechanics and cope with the forces generated by your sport.

In a static setting, or traditional balance, (standing on one leg type of things) it is more a matter of proprioception, feeling your body position in space and constantly adjusting it through muscle activation.
 

 

Which comes first? Or is it different for everyone?

post #144 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoebag View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzamp View Post

Shoebag,
you missed the previous sentence...
In your case many of the movements you do with inline skating are closely related to skiing. Therefore there will be a transfer between the two. Same reason why good skateboarders are usually good snowboarders, and surfers. 

Sorry,

 

Guess I was a little zealous with the backspace button.

 

I'll give you a thumbs up so you can sell some old gear in the swap forum next season.icon14.gif

Lol thank you!

Quote:
Originally Posted by segbrown View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzamp View Post

Great question segbrown.
I would like to argue that, in a dynamic setting, core strength is fundamental to balance and performance. This is because a strong core allows you to maintain proper mechanics and cope with the forces generated by your sport.

In a static setting, or traditional balance, (standing on one leg type of things) it is more a matter of proprioception, feeling your body position in space and constantly adjusting it through muscle activation.
 

 

Which comes first? Or is it different for everyone?

let's leave motor development out.

As somebody who already knows how to ski you posses both, in fact you wouldn't have dynamic balance without static, think of it as standing before walking I guess.
I think that emphasis should be on developing proprioception and dynamic balance together. Proprioception can be developed skiing (like concentrating on body positioning) and training through static balance exercises standing on unstable surfaces, balance boards, etc. Dynamic balance develops with the activity and can be trained in the gym. This would be using bosu balls, swiss balls, various plyometric work, gymnastics, etc.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zentune View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzamp View Post


depends on the how you see training. 
To me it could be...
for example if you are going rock climbing every day in the summer with the hope to win the WC the next year you are wasting your time. Your forearms will be steel, your grip will be beast, but your skiing will be at best the same.

Obvious exaggeration but there are people out there suggesting things like that. As someone in this field, and I believe CTKook is as well, I feel obligated to shed some light on the subject smile.gif

  I, for one, certainly would not suggest rock climbing every day (imagine how strong your starts would be though biggrin.gif). I'm more in favor of a well rounded approach to preparing for the season, though I'm not in "the field" (are you a personal trainer?). 

 

      zenny

the truth is in the middle? :)
I think that someone like yourself has been around skiing enough to know how to train without having a certificate that says so. And it's clear that you look at all aspects of it. 
My problem is when specific training tools are proposed, even inadvertently, to people who might not have the sufficient experience to interpret them.
That's when I step in to say wait a minute, don't jump on the latest cool thing but rather focus on the things that most closely relate to your sport. It will save you time, possibly money, and will work better.

(athletic training, and strength and conditioning)
 

post #145 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by segbrown

 

What is the relationship between core strength and balance?

 

If the core is loose because its muscles are weak, the relationship of the upper body to the lower body is going to be wobbly and inconsistent.  When the feet are moving dynamically, a weak core can crumple under the forces pushing up on it from below.  The core may reactively fold forward at the waist, twist, extend, or tilt sideways in response to what's going on with the feet and legs.  If the upper body is wobbling around unnecessarily, it's going to be harder to maintain balance.  

 

If the core is stable because it's strong, balance is going to be less complicated.  At least that's how I see it.

post #146 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by jzamp View Post
 
     the truth is in the middle? :)

        

 

      Ha! Finally, someone that reads between the lines of my postswink.gif.........biggrin.gif

 

 

      zenny

post #147 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by jzamp View Post

Lol thank you!

let's leave motor development out.

As somebody who already knows how to ski you posses both, in fact you wouldn't have dynamic balance without static, think of it as standing before walking I guess.
I think that emphasis should be on developing proprioception and dynamic balance together. Proprioception can be developed skiing (like concentrating on body positioning) and training through static balance exercises standing on unstable surfaces, balance boards, etc. Dynamic balance develops with the activity and can be trained in the gym. This would be using bosu balls, swiss balls, various plyometric work, gymnastics, etc.

 

I meant between core strength or balance... but no matter.

 

So, where I'm coming from ... and it isn't necessarily ski-related, but a little bit. Sometimes I feel like my strength suffers before my balance does. I still have the speed and balance to write checks that my body can't cash, in other words. Don't know if I should work harder on strength or just accept my age. ;-)

post #148 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by segbrown View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzamp View Post

Lol thank you!

let's leave motor development out.

As somebody who already knows how to ski you posses both, in fact you wouldn't have dynamic balance without static, think of it as standing before walking I guess.
I think that emphasis should be on developing proprioception and dynamic balance together. Proprioception can be developed skiing (like concentrating on body positioning) and training through static balance exercises standing on unstable surfaces, balance boards, etc. Dynamic balance develops with the activity and can be trained in the gym. This would be using bosu balls, swiss balls, various plyometric work, gymnastics, etc.

 

I meant between core strength or balance... but no matter.

 

So, where I'm coming from ... and it isn't necessarily ski-related, but a little bit. Sometimes I feel like my strength suffers before my balance does. I still have the speed and balance to write checks that my body can't cash, in other words. Don't know if I should work harder on strength or just accept my age. ;-)

Oh sorry, I completely missed that...
There're different opinions on it.
The way I was taught and coached is that core strength is the equivalent to a skyscraper's fundament. If it's weak your body will crumble (less strength, injuries, etc.) so the short answer would be core first.

Although, I am currently leaning towards a mix of the two. There are ways to train your balance and core at the same time, which is IMO more efficient and functional. Take a look at programs like Insanity for example, they have been good at mixing various aspects of fitness with core strength. They are not perfect but it's def a starting point.
 

post #149 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by jzamp View Post

 
I agree zenny, I just wanted to point out that CTKook had a point, and wasn't just arguing for the sake of it.

But you have to admit that there is very little cross over between climbing and skiing. wink.gif

 


If you've climbed much at all, you'll recognize that it will help you appreciate the significance of force vectors in skiing. Maybe it's more mentally beneficial than physically transferable, but I digress.

There has been absolutely zero attempt to refute anything that the Kook has said. My mistake is in the basic assumption that the 15-20 day per season skier isn't laser focused on skiing and that more than likely, they have some significant constraints on their personal time. What should have been said is, "Kook is right on the money. Do the things that are the most directly transferable. If you really enjoy them, so much the better."

My take was "in addition to these, do other activities that you enjoy, might be able to do with or introduce your family to, and by virtue of addressing balance, core strength, flexibility,etc... will keep you strong enough to make the most of your time on the hill. If not technically, then at least in terms of the basic conditioning needed getting up and down the hill for a full day.

Other stuff: Road biking, for example, has little to do directly with basketball, yet when I was doing a ton of riding, I could run full court all day long. Dd it benefit cycling? Probably not, but it was fun and allowed me to stay connected to numerous friends who weren't skiers or riders. Conversely, basketball was a nice break that addressed things like eye hand coordination, lateral movement, explosiveness in multiple planes, etc... That cycling didn't address. Between climbing when younger and cycling though, my shoulders were a wreck. At the point cycling was dialed back, it was time to get my body more well balanced and sorted out so off to the gym it was. Happened that there were a couple of squash courts at that particular gym and damned if that wasn't fun! Winter comes and it's ski and ski touring time. I don't find that my skills atrophy really so long as I am thinking about skiing and all the other stuff let the season begin with a nice base fitness level.

, I find the weight room a type of insurance and rehab but know full well that many just hate the idea of weight training. It's only been in the gym that I've successfully addressed a knee issue, and some serious shoulder problems through strength and flexibility training. There's a reason national ski teams spend time in the weight room. Stronger is safer and less prone to injury especially for we mortals who aren't paid a whole lot if anything to do this sport.. In the end, it benefits skiing for me, but even more importantly as an older parent with a young kid, I need to simply have the basic level of fitness necessary to not get run into the ground while introducing him to the physical things in life I feel he might enjoy.

In terms of the OP's original question, the big one for me is watching video and 'visualization'. Not everyone is wired for watching', but i most certainly am. YM (and Kook's) MV and I'm not about to contest that at all. I've said too much already in this thread, so I'll end it here,
Cheers.
Edited by markojp - 7/3/13 at 11:23pm
post #150 of 179

Markojp
what you say is right, and I can see how bicycling can help your basketball game, or squash your skiing.

I think we need to make a distinction between the recreational skier, and the "professional". (in quotes because it doesn't mean WC only, but anybody who spends lots of days on snow and needs to maintain a high standard)
As a recreational skier any type of summer activity will benefit your skiing. That is simply because you are maintaining a certain level of fitness. And by all means you should do anything that pleases you.
As a "professional" your time is limited and you should make the most out of it. Obviously there should be some fun training, but it must all come together to the goal... make you a better skier.
Under this premise there are some activities that will transfer over to skiing more than others. Some will not transfer at all. This is because the increase in fitness you would see by doing them is precluded by the already high fitness level you would see in a "professional" 

Also I would like to say that this is not really a direct response to the OP, but rather an attempt to clarify previous statements and provide more information about cross training.

Let's take the ladies USST, they recently finished a week on training in SD in which they worked out as firemen, lifeguards, played soccer, etc. Did they do it because the skills learned will transfer over to skiing? maybe. But most likely it was done as a team building session. The rest of their training will be lots of bike, plyo, core, and agility work.  because those are the elements they will need the most. Luckily they are paid to ski so they can afford to have fun trying out all kind of different things.
 

The avg. "professional" doesn't have the resources and must make the best use of the time available.

I hope this makes sense.

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