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What makes skis tip dive?

post #1 of 11
Thread Starter 

Tip dive in powder is something I've never totally understood. I had awful tip drive problems with Dynastar Mythic Riders, the second any pow was approaching low angle they'd pitch me over the handlebars. My old Atomic SL12s were also horrible for tip dive but I pretty much expected this given they are probably the least suited pow ski going! Interestingly I ended up with the wrong skis for the conditions and had to ski my Atomic Race SL Ti in boot deep pow and amazingly I had zero tip dive issues, I could even put weight on the tips and despite their 165 length and stiffness they just wouldn't submarine.

 

Given this strange set of results what exactly about a ski causes tip dive? After the Mythics I am always very hesitant getting new skis for use on anything more than on piste for fear I'll end up being plagued with mine hunting tips in powder.

post #2 of 11

1) mounted too forward

2) going too slow

3) maybe too much ramp angle/forward lean

4) slope too flat--especially in DEEP powder, gravity is your friend

post #3 of 11

maybe the mounting position ends up being forward-biased?  

 

If you balance the ski, where is the balance point?    For those interested in physics, if you balance the object on two fingers (of your two hands) or two sticks, and then slowly bring the fingers/sticks together, it will end up at the balance point of the object.

post #4 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by raytseng View Post

maybe the mounting position ends up being forward-biased?  

 

If you balance the ski, where is the balance point?    For those interested in physics, if you balance the object on two fingers (of your two hands) or two sticks, and then slowly bring the fingers/sticks together, it will end up at the balance point of the object.

do not try this with super sharp edges

post #5 of 11

Was it tip "dive" or ski slowing?  The latter causes you to go over the handle bars and is usually caused the wax and the skier not having a tight core.  Change skis and the issue might go away because of different wax.

 

Not saying this is the cause but it is a cause for the symptons.

post #6 of 11

Poor technique.

post #7 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by SHREDHEAD View Post

Poor technique.


Fore/Aft balance.

post #8 of 11
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SHREDHEAD View Post

Poor technique.

 

How does that explain this happening with the same skier on one pair of skis ski but not another?

 

On the two pairs of atomics the balance point seems to be the same and bindings seem very similar but there is a big change in construction from the SL12s to Race Ti SLs

post #9 of 11

I'd say the narrow waist of the SL ski, combined with the wide shovel allowed you to stay in balance (toes up but not backseat) better than the ski with more 'float' underfoot which would require a shift in fore/aft balance..

post #10 of 11
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteroom View Post

I'd say the narrow waist of the SL ski, combined with the wide shovel allowed you to stay in balance (toes up but not backseat) better than the ski with more 'float' underfoot which would require a shift in fore/aft balance..

 

The SL12s drive like mad and the Race Ti SLs are fine, both 165cm Atomic SL skis with 11.5 or 12m radius.

post #11 of 11

I (5'10"@190#)ski the Atomic SL9 @ 170cm/65mm waist/12M TR and they do fine in all conditions. However the Rossi Avenger Ti/170cm/76mm waist/16M TR has a flatter nose and likes to plow new snow. The deal is once you find the bottom (where the ski likes to ride) in deeper snow that's where you ski them. Ski the design parameters by adapting to the conditions.

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