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Whister Ski School Development Sessions

post #1 of 9
Thread Starter 

Thought the community would like to see these links.

 

This link...

 

http://www.wbsss.com/training/a_and_d_videos/

 

Is from a Whistler Ski School Assessment and Development session held by Ken Paynter (aka Dr. Ken).  Ken is CSIA L4 and manages the Max 4 Lessons Blackcomb Alpine.  This session was open to all Whister Blackcomb instructors to improve their ability to assess students.

 

Whistler Blackcomb provides development prep days for their instructors.  Essentially full day session (offered 3 times a week for each of L2 prep, L3 prep and L4 prep) with a Level 4 to help get ones skiing to the next level.

 

In addiiton to the prep days the ski school has a mock Level 3 ski exam.  The judges are Level 4's who are also Level 3 evaluators.  They rate the candiates skiing.

 

http://www.wbsss.com/training/mock_ski_off_results/

 

When you get to the page click on the blue text to get a pdf of the results.

 

March 8, 2013 - Level 3 Ski Off Results

 

By the way, no one passed!

 

Enjoy.

post #2 of 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cntred Stance View Post

 

By the way, no one passed!

 

That's depressing. On the other hand, in the real exam candidates get two attempts on each run, and they keep the best score. The only mandatory passes are the intermediate parallel and bump run - otherwise candidates only need a 6 average across intermediate parallel, bumps, advanced parallel and short radius. In a real exam situation, a couple of those guys might have passed their second runs and squeaked by. That's also not to say that all these guys were expecting to pass the exam at this point either. But I imagine some of them were. 

 

Here's a video of instructors who passed their 3: 

 

 

Not a significant difference for some of the candidates. Yeah, it'd be great to be prepared to the point you'll pass every run without any doubt, but that could take five or more years additional training. I'd rather squeak by the 3 and start 4 prep immediately rather than spend another 5 years working towards acing the 3. 

post #3 of 9
Aren't 4s the certification evaluators and ultimate trainers? You want to be one of those before you can ski the best you can ski?
post #4 of 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kneale Brownson View Post

Aren't 4s the certification evaluators and ultimate trainers? You want to be one of those before you can ski the best you can ski?

 

Oh, Kneale, the skill gap between 3 and 4 is significant - the last course conductor I trained with threw out ten years as the development time to get there (after achieving the 3 standard). Level 3 instructors have a lot of room to grow, so I'd want to get into the 4 course ASAP. That doesn't mean I expect to become a 4 anytime soon. 

 

In the same vein, I'd recommend any level 2 instructor to take the level 3 course, regardless of their readiness to take the exam (assuming they have the money to spare). By simply taking the course, participants are exposed to phenomenal skiing and teaching concepts. I'm looking forward to the same sort of "next level" development in the 4 course, but I need to pass the 3 exam first. 

 

Surely it's the same in PSIA? I've heard the mantra "congratulations - you're finally ready to learn how to ski" upon completion of PSIA's 3...

post #5 of 9
Thread Starter 

I agree the L3 couse is amazing - even if one does not aspire to take the L3 exam.

 

I did it last year and have done 6 L3 prep days this year. 

 

From a skills perspective we worked a lot on stance and balance (S&B) and upper lower body separation applied to short radius, bumps and intermediate parallel.

 

If you look at the A&D video's (first link) the last one in the series contains analysis of L3's doing L4 prep.  I know a two of the skiers in the video.  They ski very well.  Most of the comments Ken Paynter offers is back to the fundamentals of S&B and separation.  With the recomendation for drills to improve skills in these areas (javelin hockey stops, javelin side slips).  From what I can see, L4 is a refinement of L3.  For example with bumps, L3's are allowed to ski a a reasonably wide corridor while L4 bump corridor narrows significantly.  No hunting for the smoothest/easiest way down.  You have to ski what comes at you. 

 

L3's can have some very minor hint upper boady rotation while for L4's you must be completely seperated. This takes hours and hours of turning with regular feed back.  One L4 to me said it takes 10 thousand turns.  Maybe he said that for effect.  Needless to say miles on the snow training and working on basic skills is required.

 

For me, my skiing has come a long way but I am a year or two out before trying the L3 exam.

post #6 of 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metaphor_ View Post

Oh, Kneale, the skill gap between 3 and 4 is significant - the last course conductor I trained with threw out ten years as the development time to get there (after achieving the 3 standard). Level 3 instructors have a lot of room to grow, so I'd want to get into the 4 course ASAP. That doesn't mean I expect to become a 4 anytime soon. 

In the same vein, I'd recommend any level 2 instructor to take the level 3 course, regardless of their readiness to take the exam (assuming they have the money to spare). By simply taking the course, participants are exposed to phenomenal skiing and teaching concepts. I'm looking forward to the same sort of "next level" development in the 4 course, but I need to pass the 3 exam first. 

Surely it's the same in PSIA? I've heard the mantra "congratulations - you're finally ready to learn how to ski" upon completion of PSIA's 3...

PSIA has brief precourse training programs to prepare for certification examinations. Most training occurs on the resort level by resort trainers, who may or may not be examiners (your L4s). I don't know that a candidate for PSIA LII can enroll in the precourse for LIII.

In PSIA, at least traditionally, LII is more about the teaching skills while LIII is more about skiing skills. The exam skiing requirements differ considerably. The teaching presentation requirements differ only in that the LIII candidate is expected to be more thorough and more "polished". There are actual teaching experience requirements at both levels.

BTW, you never "throw out" years of training. You may advance beyond them, but they all contribute to your understanding and your skills development.
post #7 of 9

Thanks for posting!

Interesting in the fact that this is one of the rare movement analysis sessions where being too forward and pivoting off the front of the skis is discussed.

A lot of people think that it's impossible to be too forward.

I think it was the seoond to last video that has it the most, but I heard it in all I think.
 

post #8 of 9

kneale, sorry, I described that sloppily - I don't mean the trainer literally threw away 10 years of training - I meant he cast out a guestimate that it would take most instructors 10 years of training after achieving the 3 to get to the 4 standard. I agree that all good training is part of a progression :)

 

Cntred, I'd agree that each level is a refinement of the prior level. That said, the 4s need to be able to perform some "new" tasks that strike me as well beyond the 3 standard: 

 

  • Corridor, which from what I understand involves using the ski's rebound to deflect across the hill rather than downhill (we never even attempted this exercise at any level 3 preps I attended at WB)
  • Round turns in the bumps (rapid absorption/extension, pressure control, balance adjustments)
  • GS qualifier

 

Granted, the 4s are blending the same five skills introduced early in a skier's development, but the outcomes are so novel - it's as if they're just... "creating variation" on the fly! har :)

post #9 of 9

Is it just me, or do many of these skiers look like they are skiing with poles that are too long? IMO, there could be a more effective pole plant (where sometimes there wasn't any pole plant) with shorter poles.

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