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Hype over Bonafide

post #1 of 23
Thread Starter 

I skied a buddies virtually new Bonafide. eh! OK ski nothing specia and I was predisposed to an ultra positive experience on them!

 

I was pretty disappointed!

 

Actually my old Head  Mojo 94's (skied the Bonafie and the Mojo back to back) skied better, both off piste and on the groomed.

 

The owner of the Bonafide thought so too!

 

He asked me to tune his Bonafide like my Mojo's were tuned. I took the Bonafide home and measured them.

 

Guess what?  They are  factory tuned to a 1/3. Same tune as I have on my Mojo 94.

 

I was surprised,  as was the Bonafide owner.

 

No new skis for me this year! Skied today in the steep and deep at Crystal lots of steep untracked.

 

Mojo 94 performed beautifully, really could not of asked for more!

 

Fantastic uncrowded day with untrakced  pow, (9-14") great groomers. Cold temps and just the right amount of sun!

post #2 of 23

Infidel.....popcorn popping for this important threadpopcorn.gif

post #3 of 23

Yeah, but... the core is flipped!

post #4 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic View Post

Yeah, but... the core is flipped!

 

That's the way I juice my apples too, I flip the core over first.

post #5 of 23

Thats why there are choices. As I have heard..some will (like a ski), some won't (like a sk)i, so what. The Bonafide right now has many more people liking them than don't. Those people seem happy and you seem happy liking your Mojo's, good for you. Personally, I think the Bonafide is the best 98mm out there right now and I haven't seen anything for 2014 that betters it, including the replacement for your Mojo94. 

post #6 of 23

Lots of people love Porsche.  They make great cars, and people pay good money for them.  Do I like Porsche?  Not especially.  Does that mean Porsche cars are crap?  Naw.  That everyone else is wrong?  Naw.  That I'm a sucker for a marketing department?  Naw.  Just means that Porsche isn't my thing, that's all.

 

Lots of people love the Bones, many don't.  To each their own.  It's all good.

post #7 of 23
Well as a previous happy owner of the Mojo 94s and the current happy owner of the Bonafides, I can add to the technical aspects of the discussion, but... I'd rather enjoy the direction this thread is going. Both skis were good enough to earn my money:-). I keep my Bones tuned to 1/2. Heads needed a retune out of the wrapper, Bones didn't.
Popcorn time :-)
post #8 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexzn View Post

Well as a previous happy owner of the Mojo 94s and the current happy owner of the Bonafides, I can add to the technical aspects of the discussion, but... I'd rather enjoy the direction this thread is going. Both skis were good enough to earn my money:-). I keep my Bones tuned to 1/2. Heads needed a retune out of the wrapper, Bones didn't.
Popcorn time :-)

 

I have yet to see a ski come out of the wrapper and not need a tune. Period.

 

Kastle, Blizzard, Dynastar, Fischer, etc.

 

(yes, even new Flipcores)

post #9 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rossi Smash View Post

 

I have yet to see a ski come out of the wrapper and not need a tune. Period.

 

Kastle, Blizzard, Dynastar, Fischer, etc.

 

(yes, even new Flipcores)

!BSmeter.gif 

 

The Bonafides were perfect,  spot on sharp 1/3 out of the wrapper. So were my Atomic D2 Race GS.(Actually one of the finest tunes I have ever skied from a factory or otherwise!) Perfect!

post #10 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman View Post

!BSmeter.gif 

 

The Bonafides were perfect,  spot on sharp 1/3 out of the wrapper. So were my Atomic D2 Race GS.(Actually one of the finest tunes I have ever skied from a factory or otherwise!) Perfect!

 

Your perfect must be my "barely skiable".  confused.gif

 

The file don't lie...

post #11 of 23

The edgy word "hype" in the thread name has fallen off the page. I was hoping you'd develop that angle. and you have allowed hyperbole about the brand to have voice unchallenged.

post #12 of 23

Just reading, is all. popcorn.gif

post #13 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rossi Smash View Post

 

I have yet to see a ski come out of the wrapper and not need a tune. Period.

 

Kastle, Blizzard, Dynastar, Fischer, etc.

 

(yes, even new Flipcores)

Flipcores especially!  Most of the ones I have sold were super railed out of the box.  1st pass over the grinder, I thought sparks were going to start a fire on a 80ca I tuned the other day!  Great skis, but super edge-high when new. I grind most every pair before sending it out the door.  Dynastar is also super edge high.  Fischer and Kastle, on average, much flatter, at least this year.

post #14 of 23

Rossi, how were your E98s out of the wrapper?  And what base/bevel you got on those bad boys?

post #15 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgcatching View Post

Flipcores especially!  Most of the ones I have sold were super railed out of the box.  1st pass over the grinder, I thought sparks were going to start a fire on a 80ca I tuned the other day!  Great skis, but super edge-high when new. I grind most every pair before sending it out the door.  Dynastar is also super edge high.  Fischer and Kastle, on average, much flatter, at least this year.

I've hand tuned probably close to 400 pairs of "Flipcore" skis over the last three years and not one of them has been railed! Some of them are a little flat on one side (closer to .5* base bevel) but none are railed. A railed ski literally will not pivot at all, is barely skiable. There is a huge difference between a railed ski and a flat ski.

When the base bevel is less than one you can generally get sparks the first pass over the machine, depending on how fast the stone is spinning. At what speed do you pregrind at? How long have you been grinding skis? What machine are you using?

Some of the skis might need a little more base bevel for certain people but I've never seen one that was edge high.
Edited by wasatchback - 3/21/13 at 8:30am
post #16 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by wasatchback View Post


I've hand tuned probably close to 400 pairs of "Flipcore" skis over the last three years and not one of them has been railed! Some of them are a little flat on one side (closer to .5* base bevel) but none are railed. A railed ski literally will not pivot at all, is barely skiable. There is a huge difference between a railed ski and a flat ski.

When the base bevel is less than one you can generally get sparks the first pass over the machine, depending on how fast the stone is spinning. At what speed do you pregrind at? How long have you been grinding skis? What machine are you using?

Some of the skis might need a little more base bevel for certain people but I've never seen one that was edge high.


That is interesting: maybe you have a different definition of railed than I do.  I just threw a true-bar over the tip of a couple of Blizzards (8.5ti and Bushwacker that I just sold), and there is significant light coming through at the base, so definitely base high and could benefit from a tune.  Been grinding for 10 years, stone speed varies, machine is either a Sigma RS for nicer grinds (I used it after hours from the race shop) or an old T1800.  The last pair of demos (8.0ti)  I tuned were definitely railed out of the box: I mounted them, then went and skied them, and they were very grabby, laterally over-aggressive. Brought them back to the shop, threw a good grind on there, got them flat, set up with a 1 degree base, and skied them again. What a difference!  This is less of an issue with some of the wider skis, but I have especially noticed it with the narrower Magnum skis, especially with the titanium layups.  Customer feedback has been similar to my experience.  Most any ski could use a good grind out of the wrapper though, but I have found the metal-layup Blizzards can really benefit, being that they are already laterally aggressive, even with a a good tune, so they can be over edgy if edge high.  FYI.

 

This is an interesting side, but really a thread drift.  We should start a new topic. 

post #17 of 23

Interesting thread here.  Hope it doesn't get side-tracked to a discussion on tuning.  I think the (better) questions on the table are:

  • is the Bonafide (and Blizzard/flipcore in general) over-hyped?
  • Atomicman, do you just prefer a "traditional" camber ski, and happen own an especially good one? (BTW, where did you ski?  What kind of snow and conditions?)
  • are things evolving and getting better and better all the time -- or was Darwin right that things are evolving, but not necesarily for the better?  
post #18 of 23

now that is interesting, dawgcatching (your quote below on grinding new skis)

 

i've never considered getting my new (fresh out of the wrapper) skis a grinding.....I always thought

most skis (from atomic, kastle or other reputable brand, if they've been stored properly) would need a grind or tweak.

guess i'm  naive or too trusting...

 

help me out here please (and i'm sure others might appreciate it too)

 is there a way to tell if they need such, since i'm neither a technician nor 'in the know' of that subject?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgcatching View Post

Flipcores especially!  Most of the ones I have sold were super railed out of the box.  1st pass over the grinder, I thought sparks were going to start a fire on a 80ca I tuned the other day!  Great skis, but super edge-high when new. I grind most every pair before sending it out the door.  Dynastar is also super edge high.  Fischer and Kastle, on average, much flatter, at least this year.


Edited by canali - 3/21/13 at 12:06pm
post #19 of 23

I'm not sure the Bonafide is over-hyped.  There are many MANY satisfied Bonafide owners out there, and the sales speak for themselves.  It's universally praised, though there will always be people that don't like the Bonafide.....or a twin tip, or a Kastle, or a K2, or a SkiLogik, or a pintail, or a (insert descriptor here).  Personal preference, and all that.

post #20 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimski View Post

Interesting thread here.  Hope it doesn't get side-tracked to a discussion on tuning.  I think the (better) questions on the table are:

  • is the Bonafide (and Blizzard/flipcore in general) over-hyped?

 

I've liked most recent Blizzards that I've been on, much moreso than some other brands (particularly Volkl and Salomon).  Is it the 'flipcore'?  No idea.  But they're putting out a lot of good designs.

 

I demoed the 'Bone' thinking it wouldn't live up to the hype and I was impressed.  It's a fairly burly, metal-reinforced ski, but seemed fairly easy to handle and good groomed-snow performance for the width.  But I'm a big guy and can bend a ski like that at low speeds.  I could EASILY see some people disliking it, or at least thinking it's nothing special.

post #21 of 23

May be imputing too much to OP's use of a single word. But IMO, "hyped" is different from "impressive," or "successful." For me, the hype is the buzz, the marketing, the sustained build up about something, often revolving about how it's gonna change your life. In the case of the Bone, it was the, ah, game changing technology. In the case of California, it was the unreal lifestyle. We're always after the best new something/somewhere, huh?

 

IMO if a ski "lives up to the hype," that's saying something different, that the ski's really great to the person who's evaluating it. And "living up to the hype" is pretty personal, IMO. Kinda like people who still move to LA and think it lives up to its hype (circa 1970). (Grew up there, so allowed to be less than wowed biggrin.gif.)

 

OTOH if something's successful, then by definition a lot of people are buying/buying into it. But it's fallacious to say that sales or popularity prove anything about other qualities like performance or quality. (eg, "Buy Oldsmobile, America's Choice!" Or "Most people voted against this, so it must be a bad idea.") Called argumentum ad populum. Otherwise, we'd have to accept LA as the best city in America. With a straight face. 

 

Anyway, there have been plenty of skis without the hype that have proven to be superb for most, and plenty with the hype that came out meh for most. And a few with the hype that've been superb for most. I'd assume now that the 2014 Bones are soon going to be available at an online store near you wink.gif  we'll be seeing more buzz again about Bonafides. Better go buy a brace before they're sold out and we have to get the 2015's next November! eek.gif

post #22 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by canali View Post

now that is interesting, dawgcatching (your quote below on grinding new skis)

 

i've never considered getting my new (fresh out of the wrapper) skis a grinding.....I always thought

most skis (from atomic, kastle or other reputable brand, if they've been stored properly) would need a grind or tweak.

guess i'm  naive or too trusting...

 

help me out here please (and i'm sure others might appreciate it too)

 is there a way to tell if they need such, since i'm neither a technician nor 'in the know' of that subject?

 

 

All you need is a true-bar to check how flat the base is. (as far as if a base grind is needed)

post #23 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rossi Smash View Post

 

All you need is a true-bar to check how flat the base is. (as far as if a base grind is needed)

agreed, true-bar is the way to go.  You can tell in 5 seconds if the ski is flat or not. 

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