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Skis Made in the USA

post #1 of 72
Thread Starter 

I was on the REI website and found Icelantic skis that are made in the USA! I didn't know there were any skis still made in the USA.

 

I love buying Made in the USA, I'm thinking some all mountain "Nomad RKR".

 

Anyone have any experience with these skis?

 

Sam.

post #2 of 72

I don't have experience with the skis, but if you go to www.exoticskis.com you will find a bunch of manufacturers still cranking out skis in the USA.  Don't be fooled about the 100% USA stuff, though.  The epoxy might come from Asia, the bases and edges from Germany, the bamboo core from some SE Asia country where Air America dropped supplies during the Vietnam war (or a wood core from the poplar growing down the road), the parts to the press from a dozen countries, the owner is sleeping with a girl from Sweden, the sidewalls from...well, you get the idea.  It is a world wide economy.

post #3 of 72

I have a pair of Shamans and really like them.  I demoed the RKR at Snowbasin a few weeks ago in conditions where I could have really ripped up the groomers on my Shamans.  I would not call the RKR an all mountain ski.  I really wanted to like it but it very heavily biased towards soft snow.  If you want an all mountain ski from Icelantic, I'd recommend the Pilgrim or Shaman over the RKR.  If you want a ski solely for those days with lots of fresh soft snow, the RKR might be the ticket.  Personally I found the Atomic Ritual a much more satisfying all mountain ski and it's only 2mm narrower in the waist.  Actually the Atomic Bent Chetler was better on groomers than the RKR.

post #4 of 72
I am a big fan of my Bluehouse districts made in Utah! Skied a 179cm in 12" of wet, heavy pow and loved them. 106 underfoot and they felt good. Not hooky. I had to stay centered,but they were fun. I can't wait to try my TSTs that will arrive tomorrow.
post #5 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by quant2325 View Post

I don't have experience with the skis, but if you go to www.exoticskis.com you will find a bunch of manufacturers still cranking out skis in the USA.  Don't be fooled about the 100% USA stuff, though.  The epoxy might come from Asia, the bases and edges from Germany, the bamboo core from some SE Asia country where Air America dropped supplies during the Vietnam war (or a wood core from the poplar growing down the road), the parts to the press from a dozen countries, the owner is sleeping with a girl from Sweden, the sidewalls from...well, you get the idea.  It is a world wide economy.


I know you refer to skis made in America, but do you think a company like Dynastar or Atomic or Rossignol or Volkl buys their cores from someone else, their bases, their adhesives? I don't think so. I could be mistaken, but I think the majors have chemists engineering their major elements.

 

A ski company making product by ordering all the elements from outside suppliers overseas has nothing to do with the world economy; it's about making a ski from a kit, someone else's kit, because you don't have the manufacturing capability to make it yourself. Again, I may be in error, but you'll have to prove it to convince me.

post #6 of 72

I had the same experience with the Nomad RKR.  I really wanted to like them, but I didn't think they held together very well when I got them up to speed.  Fun ski in the soft though.  I did really like the Keepers, Shamans and I bought a pair of Gypsies.  The Moment PB&J (made in Reno) and Atomic Rituals are on my short list to demo next season. 
 

post #7 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by davluri View Post


I know you refer to skis made in America, but do you think a company like Dynastar or Atomic or Rossignol or Volkl buys their cores from someone else, their bases, their adhesives? I don't think so. I could be mistaken, but I think the majors have chemists engineering their major elements.

 

A ski company making product by ordering all the elements from outside suppliers overseas has nothing to do with the world economy; it's about making a ski from a kit, someone else's kit, because you don't have the manufacturing capability to make it yourself. Again, I may be in error, but you'll have to prove it to convince me.

 So Dave, you know that Titanal we all love? It's a trade name for an aluminum alloy produced by an Austrian steel maker. I'm sure the majors aren't raising their own wood either.... Or spinning their own carbon and glass for that matter. Where's primoz? I'm sure he can set the record straight.

post #8 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by markojp View Post

 So Dave, you know that Titanal we all love? It's a trade name for an aluminum alloy produced by an Austrian steel maker. I'm sure the majors aren't raising their own wood either.... Or spinning their own carbon and glass for that matter. Where's primoz? I'm sure he can set the record straight.

 

+1

 

Yeah, I doubt many/none of these companies are MAKING/GROWING their own raw products. Not that I care. 

 

If Company A specializes in making high quality honey-comb products, having spent decades with in-house materials scientists and engineers to come up with a variety of products with a variety of uses and specifications-- why on earth as Ski Company B would I decide I should skip the experts and try to make a better honey-comb? Not only would it likely be a waste of time, but I'd probably end up producing something inferior while distracting my engineers from the thing they are supposed to be experts at: designing skis!

 

Instead, spend your time designing the pieces and product, build those things that nobody else can provide at the same quality/price (or at all), and focus on how to bring all the ingredients together well.

 

Hell, Apple-- biggest company in the world-- doesn't produce all, or even most, of the actual hardware/components. They work with partners who specialize in X chip, Y material, etc, intimately involved in the design process. But they aren't an aluminum foundry. 

post #9 of 72

Looking for some feedback on some skis made out of Reno, MOMENT Skis- Tahoe and the PBJ. I'm thinking about 180cm and not to stiff.  Most of my skiing is Tahoe based with an adventure somewhere else each year(only where theres soft snow) Groomers and off-piste mix

 

Another consideration is the Rossi Soul 7. Any thoughts on these choices?

post #10 of 72

I'm a Buy American also which is how I got started on K2's which used to be made in the US.  Even though K2's are made overseas they do have engineering and some small mfg base still in the US so some of the money paid for the skis provides US jobs and mfg. base.

 

It would be fun to have someone do a "Ski USA" test for the various made in America skis and include companies like K2 which are "20% US content(?)".

post #11 of 72
PM Gear skis are made in Reno. Bro Models, Lhasa Pows, and Kusala Pows in a variety of lengths.
post #12 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by davluri View Post


I know you refer to skis made in America, but do you think a company like Dynastar or Atomic or Rossignol or Volkl buys their cores from someone else, their bases, their adhesives? I don't think so. I could be mistaken, but I think the majors have chemists engineering their major elements.

 

A ski company making product by ordering all the elements from outside suppliers overseas has nothing to do with the world economy; it's about making a ski from a kit, someone else's kit, because you don't have the manufacturing capability to make it yourself. Again, I may be in error, but you'll have to prove it to convince me.


You are woefully uninformed. I know you have a quest to try and prove that only your big brands can build good ski's. But you seem to fail on all fronts by not bringing any knowledge to the table. As usual.

post #13 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagles Pdx View Post

I'm a Buy American also which is how I got started on K2's which used to be made in the US.  Even though K2's are made overseas they do have engineering and some small mfg base still in the US so some of the money paid for the skis provides US jobs and mfg. base.

 

It would be fun to have someone do a "Ski USA" test for the various made in America skis and include companies like K2 which are "20% US content(?)".


If by "small manufacturing base" you mean a few presses to do prototyping.

post #14 of 72

1) There are a bunch of good skis made in the U.S. that sell well enough to be way beyond "exotics." Besides ^^^^^ all the above, ON3P is made in Portland, Fatypus is made in Denver, RMU's also, Skilogik is made somewhere in CO I think, etc. 

 

2) I seriously doubt if Atomic's or Volkl's chemists synthesize their own glue and resin. (They prolly specify and then check its qualities.) Or make their own edge steel (ditto). Or grow their own trees (etc.). Even green indies that use special non-toxic stuff source it from elsewhere. It's a global economy. This idea that "made in" actually means that everything was manufactured from scratch "in" is a species of nostalgia for a myth about national self-sufficiency and independence. Not even a statement about historical reality unless you want to go back a century or two. 

post #15 of 72

Quote:

Originally Posted by ecimmortal View Post

You are woefully uninformed. I know you have a quest to try and prove that only your big brands can build good ski's. But you seem to fail on all fronts by not bringing any knowledge to the table. As usual.

 

Plus about 10,000,000.

post #16 of 72

To say that Dynastar doesn't make their own components is BS, and I'm calling it. If the majors bought their base material from a catalog of plastics there would be no competition at the racing level between brands, just for one example.

 

EC, if you have a point to make, make it, but don't disparage my data if you have nothing to refute it with. You, basically, are totally off on this one.

 

Oh, and lets see it's been about 3 seasons. time for the kit skis to begin falling apart, wherever they are made. watch for the posts right here

 

Beyond,  Ski Logic Colorado, guess again.  Epoxy by 3M for Volkl? not.

 

Mtc, put your money where your mouth is and keep riding Icelantic, if they are having Never Summer make a ski good enough for you.

 

I couldn't be more pleased that you guys ride indies. suckers!

post #17 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by markojp View Post

 So Dave, you know that Titanal we all love? It's a trade name for an aluminum alloy produced by an Austrian steel maker. I'm sure the majors aren't raising their own wood either.... Or spinning their own carbon and glass for that matter. Where's primoz? I'm sure he can set the record straight.


I know exactly what titanol is, bullshit name for high grade aluminum. and you can make a core without growing the tree. and you can purchase the glass, yes, never said otherwise. why do you make me responsible for statements I never made. grow up. , your sarcasm is infantile.

post #18 of 72

So who pee'd in your Wheaties this morning?

post #19 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by davluri View Post

To say that Dynastar doesn't make their own components is BS, and I'm calling it. If the majors bought their base material from a catalog of plastics there would be no competition at the racing level between brands, just for one example.

 

EC, if you have a point to make, make it, but don't disparage my data if you have nothing to refute it with. You, basically, are totally off on this one.

 

Oh, and lets see it's been about 3 seasons. time for the kit skis to begin falling apart, wherever they are made. watch for the posts right here

 

Beyond,  Ski Logic Colorado, guess again.  Epoxy by 3M for Volkl? not.

 

Mtc, put your money where your mouth is and keep riding Icelantic, if they are having Never Summer make a ski good enough for you.

 

I couldn't be more pleased that you guys ride indies. suckers!


The three major manufacturers of base material....Plastics Companies. Who would have thought.

 

Ptex  by IME (Germany).

Crown durasurf (us)

 

ISOspeed (Austria)

These companies also make sidewall, tips spacer material etc.

 

Cores are usually built/cut/profiled inhouse even by the most tiny homebuilder. I'm sure Dynastar doesn't own forest land.

 

Edges, pretty much everyone uses the same manufacturer. The big guys will have them CNC bent in house. While some of the idies will have them CNC bent by the distributor. And you can tell who does it by hand using a single radius edge bender, because all of their ski's will have the same tip shape.

 

Fiberglass, and Carbon fiber. Again. There are companies that own huge plants to manufacture this stuff. No way a ski manufacturer is going to own a plant to produce a product that has universal uses. If they need something special then those companies can tool to support the need, but generally I doubt they are looking to spend more money.

 

Topsheet material/graphics can be done in house as well. I know for a fact that Moment, and Folsom do all of their own sublimination.

 

That leaves epoxy/resin. I'm sure a company COULD mix their own by themselves, but that would require AGAIN, another manufacturing component that is a waste of precious dollars. Especially when there are HUGE companies that do this type of stuff on a much larger scale.

 

I really think you are over estimating the scale of even the biggest ski manufacturers, and what they are willing to spend in tooling and production of many components such as plastics, composites, and chemicals that have universal uses.

 

Now it's time for you to bring something beyond your usual myopic rhetoric.

post #20 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecimmortal View Post


If by "small manufacturing base" you mean a few presses to do prototyping.

 

I'll take what I can get on jobs and dollars working to build up US economy.

post #21 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by davluri View Post

Beyond,  Ski Logic Colorado, guess again.  Epoxy by 3M for Volkl? not.

 

Dave you're overreacting again. Here's Skilogik's page that mentions being handcrafted at their Colorado production facility. http://www.skilogik.com/about-us.php But hey, maybe it's all a conspiracy and they're secretly made in China. 

 

Never said that 3M supplied Volkl's epoxy. Did say that I'm dubious that they make their own from scratch. So you get the distinction? Plenty of euro subcontracters and suppliers out there. And if you're going to call b.s. on people you sure better have your own proof ready to go. I see nothing, nada, to back up your venting. Tell you what: I just emailed Volkl. Want to bet whatever cred you think you have on what they'll say? wink.gif

post #22 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by beyond View Post
Want to bet whatever cred you think you have on what they'll say? wink.gif

 

Doesn't have anything to bet.roflmao.gif

post #23 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by beyond View Post

1) There are a bunch of good skis made in the U.S. that sell well enough to be way beyond "exotics." Besides ^^^^^ all the above, ON3P is made in Portland, Fatypus is made in Denver, RMU's also, Skilogik is made somewhere in CO I think, etc. 

 

2) I seriously doubt if Atomic's or Volkl's chemists synthesize their own glue and resin. (They prolly specify and then check its qualities.) Or make their own edge steel (ditto). Or grow their own trees (etc.). Even green indies that use special non-toxic stuff source it from elsewhere. It's a global economy. This idea that "made in" actually means that everything was manufactured from scratch "in" is a species of nostalgia for a myth about national self-sufficiency and independence. Not even a statement about historical reality unless you want to go back a century or two. 

Beyond has it right, except for SkiLogik.  It is a Colorado-based company, but the owner moved with his family to an island off mainland China to personally oversee the manufacturing.   Stockli (Swiss) makes a synthetic core, and I think it is in-house, but very few other firms bother to make a synthetic core.   Bamboo certainly isn't harvested in big quantities in Europe or the USA, and that form of grass is becoming more popular as a sustainable core material everywhere.   Wood (not grass) for cores come from everywhere, and fortunately there is a lot of good wood grown in the USA.  But as others have mentioned, titinal (aluminum) and the good bases are all foreign.  I think all the edges are, too.  The machines used to grind and finish the skis are also all foreign (e.g., Wintersteiger, etc.).  When you think about it, the screws that hold the bindings are probably from Asia, too.  I still like the idea of a local guy making a local ski suitable for the typical conditions at a local hill, but all his materials won't be sourced locally.

post #24 of 72

I don't really care who holds the stir stick, Volkl doesn't go down to the local Tap store to stock up on off the shelf epoxy, like your local indie. OK? figuratively, right?  I am quite certain that the big european major manufacturers at least specify properties and likely create the formula for their elements.  Likewise, if someone mills their edges, it's to their specs, and a big enough run to justify proprietary engineering. Someone posted up some brands of ski elements, but I fail to see what that says about which companies buy it.

 

Clearly, this is mostly about people trying to prove to themselves that they have made a good purchase, when they know they haven't, or they wouldn't be so defensive about the skis they own or back. I could not ever be affected or insulted by what you say about my gear. Not one iota. So what's your insecurity that makes you so uneasy about what you ski on? 

 

And mtc, now you're officially stocking me, dickwad. Your posts hold no interest whatsoever to me. Why do mine fascinate you so much?

 

Beyond, check your facts. We now have all wood touring Snow Rangers and SkiLogics made in Colorado to thank you for.

 

Ecm, you're just guessing and bluffing, as usual.

post #25 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by davluri View Post

I don't really care who holds the stir stick, Volkl doesn't go down to the local Tap store to stock up on off the shelf epoxy, like your local indie. OK? figuratively, right?  I am quite certain that the big european major manufacturers at least specify properties and likely create the formula for their elements.  

 

Going by the marine industry that uses quantities of glass, carbon, resins, etc.... At all levels boats are made with non-proprietary stuff. The suppliers, like any other product, might do research in conjunction with a particular project ( think North Sails for Americas Cup stuff which is spun and laminated composite)... Yada yada... Making skis isn't really rocket science... Matter of fact, I'm guessing West Systems epoxies would be as good as anything made for use in ski construction Euro, Asian, or otherwise. In the end, Boeing orders enough composite material that they commonly work with suppliers to formulate material and composite blends, but you could take all the ski production in materials and $$$$ combined and it wouldn't scratch a week's worth of any single Boeing assembly line... Probably only a handful of days worth.

post #26 of 72
Quote:

Originally Posted by davluri View Post

 

A ski company making product by ordering all the elements from outside suppliers overseas has nothing to do with the world economy; it's about making a ski from a kit, someone else's kit, because you don't have the manufacturing capability to make it yourself. Again, I may be in error, but you'll have to prove it to convince me.
 

To say that Dynastar doesn't make their own components is BS, and I'm calling it. If the majors bought their base material from a catalog of plastics there would be no competition at the racing level between brands, just for one example.

 

EC, if you have a point to make, make it, but don't disparage my data if you have nothing to refute it with. You, basically, are totally off on this one.

 

Oh, and lets see it's been about 3 seasons. time for the kit skis to begin falling apart, wherever they are made. watch for the posts right here

 

Beyond,  Ski Logic Colorado, guess again.  Epoxy by 3M for Volkl? not.

 

Mtc, put your money where your mouth is and keep riding Icelantic, if they are having Never Summer make a ski good enough for you.

 

I couldn't be more pleased that you guys ride indies. suckers!

 

I generally try and stay our of threads like this, though they are good for a laugh from time to time, but if you are wondering about specific materials and I feel like it is something I can answer, happy to talk about it.  Skiing is a pretty small industry and there are not very many suppliers around.  Companies our size or smaller buy the same material from Crown, CDW, ISO, Haberkorn, etc., just like the big guys, they just buy a lot more of it.  I can say with certainty (as I'm the one signing the checks) that indies are buying the same bases, sidewalls, tipspacer, edges, VDS, and tops that many of the big guys do.  And BTW, none of it is ordered out of a catalog.

 

Honestly, the major plastic, rubber, and edge suppliers would never, ever be able to stay in business and manufacturing on the scale they do just selling to indies.  

 

It would not surprise me if some of the bigger guys have their own personal tweaks made to their epoxy systems (as we've even been able to do that doing 0.01% the volume they do), but I've never heard of any ski manufacturer actually formulating and producing their own epoxy systems in house.  Could be wrong there, but again, only a few suppliers out there doing ski/snowboard specific epoxies.  Most of the indies, again, are using the same suppliers as the big guys, so not much different there.  Indies aren't rocking the west systems special like it seemed a lot of the home builders have been doing the last few years.  The company that supplies ON3P's epoxy system has been formulating them for 30+ years and has been available to me since I was building skis in my garage in college.  Same stuff that companies like Mervin are using.  So if I can get it building skis in my garage, I think most indies are doing fine there.

 

Composite are definitely a more open area of material supply and some of the big guys are definitely weaving their own material in house.  No indie is doing that, but again, the indies aren't walking into Tap Plastic and walking out with a 50m roll of boat fiberglass.  There are, again, a small number of suppliers doing snow sports specific composites that are ready available to all indies and produce composites that are no different in the quality that the big guys would be producing in house.  

 

Core material really doesn't apply here are basically every manufacturer, big or small, sources and shapes their own cores these days so unless you are literally growing the material yourself (which I've seen discussed with bamboo), everyone pretty much does it the same way with their chosen material.  The material & equipment used to do so might very, but the difference between a laminated, shaped, profiled core in our factory is no different than the ones in any large factory - they are just able to do it faster and on a much larger scale.  

 

I might be forgetting some things, but whatever, I think you get the point.  I don't even know where I would be able to buy a kit with everything I would need to make skis these days.  Man, it would certainly make my job a lot fucking easier as dealing with the same suppliers that the big guys at our size can be a pain at times.  But it is what it is.

 

I figure I should say this to - there are indies who suck at building skis.  Absolutely suck.  But, in all honesty, there are major manufacturers that do a pretty shitty job too.  I can respect that they do manufacturing on a scale I will never, ever be able to truly appreciate.  What Atomic & Elan and a few of the other guys do is pretty awesome.  They made good skis and do a lot of them.  Nonetheless, I have no qualms in saying that I can (and often do) walk into any ski shop and pick out 10 pairs of skis with minor blems in them that would never leave my factory, or Praxis, or Wagner, or some of the other indies who actually know how to build a pair of skis and have the time and purpose to do it as a craft.

 

I think that is what separates the top indie builders from the major manufactures and it is just a product of the scale at which they manufacture.  Atomic builds the same number of skis per week as we will in a year (probably more) and does a great job doing it.  The indies that are good at what they do aren't as focused on volume as they are in finish quality, and I feel it is pretty easy to see that when comparing the top few indie made skis and the big guys.  And that is fine.  Honestly.  Not everyone is looking for a ski that is built and finished like we build our skis, or Keither his, or Pete his, and so on.  I am happy their are great large companies like Atomic & K2 with people that know their shit and care about skiing, because skiing is better because of it.

 

I just think it is a bit shortsighted to instantly write off all indies as inferior for whatever reason you have (and of which I am not aware of).  If you have had a bad experience with certain ones, then I think you are completely right to believe that manufacturer builds shitty skis.  But ON3P builds our own skis, with our own equipment, with our own process, and with our own people.  Same goes for every indie (who builds their own product).  I just don't see how indie-brand X building skis somewhere in Colorado has anything to do with what I am doing in the factory I designed and run in Portland, or Praxis, or Moment, or Wagner, or Folsom, or HG, or Slant, or 4fnt's whiteroom, or Igneous, or Bluehouse, or PMgear, or the bigger guys like Mervin, or Never Summer (Icelantic, Fatypus, RMU, High Society), and so on.  

 

Like I said above, there are indies who frankly can't make a good pair of skis, which could because of a thousand different reasons.  Honestly, sometimes I think that about some of the big guys who I consistantly see blem after blem after blem after blem on the walls at ski shops (looking at you Rossi).  Regardless, there are a lot of indies out there now and there are some that are pretty good at what they do.  It's unfortunate that you've had whatever poor experience you've had with indies, but I don't think it is unreasonable to suggest you maybe try and judge them more on a case by case basis, instead of just suggesting that each and every one, regardless of their story, process, or the product they build (or that someone builds for them), is inferior to that of the major manufactures, unless you have of course skied and judged them all yourself.  

 

There are huge differences in the feel and finish of what ON3P builds compared to what DPS builds, or Moment builds, or Never Summer builds, or what Atomic, Elan, K2, etc. build.  That is sort of the great thing about being a skier these days - you have an endless assortment of skis available to chose from.  Just because the skis made by an indie don't suit you doesn't mean they won't work for someone else.  I am sure most indies have countless storys of people who absolutely cannot stand the skis made by the major manufactures.  And that is ok, it doesn't mean the big guys make bad skis, just that they don't suit that particular person.  

 

If you fall into that category, where you just don't like indie built skis and dynastar or rossi is the ski for you, that's awesome that you have a ski that you truly enjoy; I just think it is funny that your subjective opinion on skis would then be manipulated into a broad statement that all indies build inferior skis unless you are either a ski engineer, build skis for a living, have skied all the different skis in the world, or are somehow the collective representation of every single skier on the planet.  If any of those are true, then keep rocking out, but until then, I don't see how you can legitimately make sweeping judgements about the inferiority of every indie.  If you have specific companies you have skied and disliked, than by all means let them have it, but there are some indies who actually build a good product and are doing some truly awesome stuff, so I personally think you are missing out to write them off entirely.  

 

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by beyond View Post

Dave you're overreacting again. Here's Skilogik's page that mentions being handcrafted at their Colorado production facility. http://www.skilogik.com/about-us.php But hey, maybe it's all a conspiracy and they're secretly made in China. 

 

Never said that 3M supplied Volkl's epoxy. Did say that I'm dubious that they make their own from scratch. So you get the distinction? Plenty of euro subcontracters and suppliers out there. And if you're going to call b.s. on people you sure better have your own proof ready to go. I see nothing, nada, to back up your venting. Tell you what: I just emailed Volkl. Want to bet whatever cred you think you have on what they'll say? wink.gif

 

For clarification here, Ski Logik is made on Hainan Island in the South China Sea.  They have always been made in China and have always been pretty upfront about it.  I couldn't find on that page where it says they are handcrafted in a Colorado facility.  Am I just missing it?  They are, without question, built in China.  Mazz moved his whole family over there to run the operation, so cool thing about it is that the factory truly is his own.  Different than some indies that just pay the mega factories to build their product.


Edited by iggyskier - 3/14/13 at 11:14pm
post #27 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by davluri View Post

I don't really care who holds the stir stick, Volkl doesn't go down to the local Tap store to stock up on off the shelf epoxy, like your local indie. OK? figuratively, right?  I am quite certain that the big european major manufacturers at least specify properties and likely create the formula for their elements.  Likewise, if someone mills their edges, it's to their specs, and a big enough run to justify proprietary engineering. Someone posted up some brands of ski elements, but I fail to see what that says about which companies buy it.

 

Clearly, this is mostly about people trying to prove to themselves that they have made a good purchase, when they know they haven't, or they wouldn't be so defensive about the skis they own or back. I could not ever be affected or insulted by what you say about my gear. Not one iota. So what's your insecurity that makes you so uneasy about what you ski on? 

 

And mtc, now you're officially stocking me, dickwad. Your posts hold no interest whatsoever to me. Why do mine fascinate you so much?

 

Beyond, check your facts. We now have all wood touring Snow Rangers and SkiLogics made in Colorado to thank you for.

 

Ecm, you're just guessing and bluffing, as usual.

 

This was posted while I typed up my longer response, but just got a laugh that you actually mentioned TAP plastic after I did in my post.  Trust me - no indies are putting a single thing from Tap Plastic into a pair of skis.

 

As for epoxy, even manufacturers our size have been given the ability to tweak the formula's of the epoxy we order.  Some of the big guys might be formulating their own epoxy, though I have never heard of it, but the people who formulate the epoxy systems used by most indies formulate ski/snowboard specific epoxy systems for a living.  It isn't like going to West Systems and saying "Hey, I wanna build some skis, will your boat epoxy work?"  That would be retarded.  We use the same stuff that are building easily hundreds of thousands of skis and snowboards every year.  And we've literally been able to use it since I was build skis in my garage.

 

Seriously.  My garage.

photo on3pmarshal004.jpg

 

Same edges (CDW), VDS (Haberkorn), Base Material and Tipspacer (Crown), and Topsheets (Iso).  Again, this is me building skis in my garage and I could get this stuff.  Indies buying at any reasonable volume are doing fine when it comes to material suppliers.  


Edited by iggyskier - 3/14/13 at 11:16pm
post #28 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecimmortal View Post


The three major manufacturers of base material....Plastics Companies. Who would have thought.

 

Ptex  by IME (Germany).

Crown durasurf (us)

 

ISOspeed (Austria)

These companies also make sidewall, tips spacer material etc.

 

Cores are usually built/cut/profiled inhouse even by the most tiny homebuilder. I'm sure Dynastar doesn't own forest land.

 

Edges, pretty much everyone uses the same manufacturer. The big guys will have them CNC bent in house. While some of the idies will have them CNC bent by the distributor. And you can tell who does it by hand using a single radius edge bender, because all of their ski's will have the same tip shape.

 

Fiberglass, and Carbon fiber. Again. There are companies that own huge plants to manufacture this stuff. No way a ski manufacturer is going to own a plant to produce a product that has universal uses. If they need something special then those companies can tool to support the need, but generally I doubt they are looking to spend more money.

 

Topsheet material/graphics can be done in house as well. I know for a fact that Moment, and Folsom do all of their own sublimination.

 

That leaves epoxy/resin. I'm sure a company COULD mix their own by themselves, but that would require AGAIN, another manufacturing component that is a waste of precious dollars. Especially when there are HUGE companies that do this type of stuff on a much larger scale.

 

I really think you are over estimating the scale of even the biggest ski manufacturers, and what they are willing to spend in tooling and production of many components such as plastics, composites, and chemicals that have universal uses.

 

Now it's time for you to bring something beyond your usual myopic rhetoric.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by davluri View Post

 

Ecm, you're just guessing and bluffing, as usual.

 

So, pretty much everything he said was pretty dead on (though there are really 2, not 1, edge manufacturers in the world.  If you don't believe him, check it out yourself.

 

Crown Plastic (base, sidewall, tipspacer, tops)

http://www.crownplastics.com/

 

Isosport (base, sidewall, tipspacer, tops)

http://www.isosport.com/en/

 

CDW (edges)

http://www.cdw.de/

 

Metall Deutsch (edges)

http://www.metalldeutsch.com/en_index1.htm

 

Vectroply (composites)

http://www.vectorply.com/

 

Hexcel (composites)

http://www.hexcel.com/

 

Haberkorn (VDS)

http://www.haberkorn.com/

 

Ask Industries (VDS)

http://www.ask.gr.jp/eng/index.html

 

I've been able to get this material since I started building skis as a hobby in college.  It is used by indies & majors alike.  There is no way these companies would be supplying any of the materials they do if they were just selling to indies.  Getting it can be hard for the small guys, but once you are past the material minimums to get the material they will deal with you just like anyone else.

 

Maybe it is time to stop talking about things it honestly seems like you know very little about.

post #29 of 72

So back to K2 with engineering and small mfg in the US is probably the only US based ski maker.

 

But it would still be interesting to look at the small guys going K2 one step further and building everything in the US (no matter where the raw materials come from) adding the labor component to it.

 

Who does make skis in the US?

 

K2 = 20%(?)

 

How about binding mfgs, who makes bindings in the US, that's usually 20-30% of the cost of pair of skis?

 

Boots, anybody make boots in the US? That's a big component also.

post #30 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagles Pdx View Post

So back to K2 with engineering and small mfg in the US is probably the only US based ski maker.

 

But it would still be interesting to look at the small guys going K2 one step further and building everything in the US (no matter where the raw materials come from) adding the labor component to it.

 

Who does make skis in the US?

 

K2 = 20%(?).

 

 

I might be a bit confused by what you are asking, but there are a ton of companies who do 100% of their design, development, and production in the USA, so K2 is far from being the only US based ski manufacturer.  Most are smaller ( < 5,000 pairs/year) but there are some getting fairly big, plus you have some pretty big snowboard factories with Never Summer, who builds Icelantic, RMU, Fatypus, & High Society, Mervin (Lib-Tech), Signal (snowboard only), and a few others.

 

I've toured K2's facility in Seattle and they don't do any production there, at least of any volume that would be of note.   From what I saw and was told, they just do lots and lots of prototypes there with all the production being done overseas.  


Edited by iggyskier - 3/15/13 at 6:20am
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