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Lindsey Vonn wins the DH title...

post #1 of 28
Thread Starter 

Looks like another globe denied due to a finals race getting canceled... deja-vu Lenzerheide in 2011, anyone? Although it sucks that there was no race today, I'm glad that the weather favoured Lindsey this time around.

post #2 of 28

Very unfair to Tina Maze which would probably have won the globe, just like it was unfair for Lindsey Vonn 2 years ago.

Also unfair to Svindal in the men's department as this was his only chance to have some sort of realistic hopes for the big globe.

IMO the ski federation should really change their rules and think about having some back up plan, I just find it very unfair that the "final" which usualy decides about titles in each discipline can just be canceled like that and the racers have no chance to compete for the title.
 

post #3 of 28

It seems odd that for a sport that is so weather dependent that they don't have contigency plans in place for events like this, especially for finals.

post #4 of 28

There can't be much done. Finals are just another race nothing more, and through the season, races get canceled etc. Program for finals is pretty tight and what is even more important, it's tied to TV schedule optimized for best possible ratings. Races can't be just postponed endlessly or transferred to next week, as many people think could be done. There's few 1000 people involved in organization of the race, and most of them are volunteers.

While for World championships and Olympics they organize things so they have some buffer for extraordinary conditions, finals are normal World cup race. If it goes through fine, if not, well bad luck.

Even though I would be glad if today's downhill would be run, I still think there's nothing to blame anyone for "loss" (now or 2 years ago). Everyone had whole season time to get their points, and everyone knew things also depend on weather. Afterall skiing is outside sport.

post #5 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by iLoveSkiing View Post

Very unfair to Tina Maze which would probably have won the globe, just like it was unfair for Lindsey Vonn 2 years ago.

Also unfair to Svindal in the men's department as this was his only chance to have some sort of realistic hopes for the big globe.

IMO the ski federation should really change their rules and think about having some back up plan, I just find it very unfair that the "final" which usualy decides about titles in each discipline can just be canceled like that and the racers have no chance to compete for the title.
 

I don't follow.  Didn't all the racers have their chance to compete in all the other races?  Don't those points count?

post #6 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by primoz View Post

There can't be much done. Finals are just another race nothing more, and through the season, races get canceled etc. Program for finals is pretty tight and what is even more important, it's tied to TV schedule optimized for best possible ratings. Races can't be just postponed endlessly or transferred to next week, as many people think could be done. There's few 1000 people involved in organization of the race, and most of them are volunteers.
While for World championships and Olympics they organize things so they have some buffer for extraordinary conditions, finals are normal World cup race. If it goes through fine, if not, well bad luck.
Even though I would be glad if today's downhill would be run, I still think there's nothing to blame anyone for "loss" (now or 2 years ago). Everyone had whole season time to get their points, and everyone knew things also depend on weather. Afterall skiing is outside sport.

True enough, but other major sports such as golf, auto racing etc can run after their set dates and they have TV and volunteers to deal with and they are even less dependent on good. Weather.
post #7 of 28

In FIS competitions, it's possible to wrap-up the season long World Cup before the season is over. The bottom 2 or 3 races are discarded from the point totals. Lindsey Vonn won by 1 point. She had accumulated 100 points for each of her 3 DH wins this year plus a 6th the day she was injured. Her point totalh held up for the season. Maze had one 1 DH this season.

 

It's an outdoor sport that is at the mercy of the weather. All competitors are faced with the same obstacles.

post #8 of 28

I would be curious to know if the weather at Lenzerheide in early March is more or less reliable than at other venues.

 

It's a shame they decide they cant include slack days in the schedule. It is not fair or unfair to anyone to cancel races. Everyone has the same opportunities over the season. But it sure kills the drama.

 

Richr

post #9 of 28

I saw a ski-nidustry tweet somehwere saying the Lenzerheide has had a sketchy track record with weather . Can't really attest to the validity of that, but there must be some reasoning behind it.

post #10 of 28
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeroGravity View Post

I saw a ski-nidustry tweet somehwere saying the Lenzerheide has had a sketchy track record with weather . Can't really attest to the validity of that, but there must be some reasoning behind it.

 

2011 is a prime example... as for this year, it looks like they may only be running a slalom.

post #11 of 28

End of March is tricky anywhere in Europe. It can still be full winter (and it is in Lenzerheide at the moment), or it can be +15c with water flowing down the course (like it was most of last year's finals in Schladming). With most of places, Lenzerheide is still best option in my opinion, but as I wrote, you can't really expect stable winter conditions at end of March... anywhere in Europe.

post #12 of 28

The race Vonn got injured in should have never been run--at least that's what she stated on local TV.

 

I wonder if the organizers were trying to be more cautious.

post #13 of 28
That super-g race was just fine. Yeah there was lot of delays but everything else was fine. It wasn' t first and it wasn't last race that got delayed. And thing is, Lindsey is pretty loud when things are not in her favor, while she's not all that loud when she benefits from circumstances wink.gif
post #14 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by primoz View Post

End of March is tricky anywhere in Europe. It can still be full winter (and it is in Lenzerheide at the moment), or it can be +15c with water flowing down the course (like it was most of last year's finals in Schladming). With most of places, Lenzerheide is still best option in my opinion, but as I wrote, you can't really expect stable winter conditions at end of March... anywhere in Europe.

 

 

All the more reason to build contigency days into the schedule. And it is only getting worse. Too many times the season goes out with a whimper, not a bang. The drama around overall points races is a good thing to take it down to the wire.

post #15 of 28

The problem is these kind of races can decide the faith of contestants, its just ridicilous that they should be canceled its the final, the conclusion of the title races, they have to figure out how to have a plan b or something.

Just look at the exampe at mens overall title race.

Hirscher is a bit over 100 points infront of Svindal, he races in SL and GS while Svindal races in Downhill and Super-G, the races that got cancelled. Hence Svindal lost the ability to even fight for the title as his disciplines were all cancelled. Now imagine the scenario reversed if SL and GS were first and they were cancelled.. Hirscher would have a hard time hoping to hang on to the overall title.

Its just ridicilous that they can't have some sort of plan b, the ability to change dates of races if weather during a certain day is bad or the forecast is bad, they can do this in pretty much all other sports.

post #16 of 28

They really do this in all other sports? If there's rain, they move NASCAR race from Sunday to Monday or Tuesday? I admit I have no idea about NASCAR, but I really doubt they do that. It's a whole lot of things involved in organizing World cup race, but most important is tv schedule. It's set months before and done so, that best possible tv ratings and as many as possible spectators on site are guaranteed. With this thing in mind, there's really not much space to move things around. And if we like it or not, finals are "just" World cup race.... one out of 38 for women, and one out of 37 for men. Race in Lenzerheide is exactly same as race in Lake Louise, Kitzbuhel, or Kranjska Gora. And those races through the season get canceled due bad conditions. Sometimes they try to replace them with races somewhere else, sometimes they can't make it, and race is canceled with no points given. Sure it looks bad for race in finals to get canceled, but you have to understand it's exactly same as any other race through the season. Another thing that matters is nature of alpine skiing. A lot of guys and girls, actually not a lot, but everyone, who were racing only slalom on Saturday/Sunday, were nowhere near Lenzerheide on Wednesday and Thursday. So it's impossible to say on Tuesday evening, ok weather forecast is bad, so we will have SL race on Wednesday, and we will have downhill on Sunday. It just doesn't go. Not to mention, these things are run on same course, and there's not a single place on tour, where you would have 4 different courses, with few 1000 workers who would be keeping all 4 courses in perfect shape for week so you can pick 3 hours before race what race you would be running.

Sure I would love to see race to be going on and get through, but sometimes there's no chance for this. And everyone had chance to get points through season.

post #17 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by primoz View Post

They really do this in all other sports? If there's rain, they move NASCAR race from Sunday to Monday or Tuesday? I admit I have no idea about NASCAR, but I really doubt they do that. It's a whole lot of things involved in organizing World cup race, but most important is tv schedule. It's set months before and done so, that best possible tv ratings and as many as possible spectators on site are guaranteed. 

 

THe past 5 men's US Open tennis finals have had to be moved to Monday from Sunday due to rain sometime in the previous 2 weeks screwing up the schedule. (Finally for this year they just moved it for good, lol, so it is now scheduled on Monday)  Yes, tennis is not ski racing, but you have the same issues with tv schedules, tickets, and the like. 

 

Same for major league baseball, they don't just cancel rainouts, they are postponed and replayed. 

 

I'm not making the argument for not canceling ski races, b/c I'm not totally sure how difficult it is to redo -- a tennis court doesn't need to be built every time there is a match like a race course does -- but yes, other sports move dates all the time if weather is tricky.

post #18 of 28

No one here knows more about the Cup than primoz. But as a big fan, I find it tremendously frustrating that the points race -- which is really what the sport's all about -- has been truncated at the end twice in recent years, denying us a dramatic come-from-behind story. Sigh. 

post #19 of 28

Prickly I'm not saying I'm happy with such outcome either. I would like more then anyone (probably more then anyone, since I don't feel like standing on hill for 8 hours like I did in Schladming for example, and since I don't want to lose money since if race gets canceled there's less money for me, while expenses are same) if all races would go through and if there wouldn't be a single minute of delay. But I have heard and read so many comments in last few days, unfortunately even more because I'm from Slovenia, and if DH race would go through, Maze would most likely win also DH globe, that I really have enough of it. Most of these comments had to do with this that it's shame and embarrassing for FIS and organizers, and most of them come from people who watch race or two on TV and that's all what they ever had to do with skiing... or any other sport.

I totally agree it's bad for sport if races got canceled, but I understand how it is, and there's nothing much that can be done. Noone likes when races get delayed or even canceled, and the one that like this least are FIS and organizers since this bring huge money minus in their pocket. So noone does this on purpose... not now not 2 years ago.

post #20 of 28

As much as I dislike FIS, this thread illustrates how difficult position they're in.

When a race is held in bad conditions, they catch hell.

When they cancel a race due to bad conditions they catch hell.

post #21 of 28

Let's back up a few. I think Lindsey was right, the track wasn't safe, but regardless, we're not talking about Lindsey complaining about losing a race due to conditions. She had her knee shattered, and all she said was that she didn't think the race should have been run under the conditions. So she's talking about a safety issue, not a fair/unfair race situation. Understand fully the necessity for trying to get races off under tight scheduling. We had a similar situation at last week's US Masters Nationals. Tough conditions all week, with one exception, but the race crew did a great job of getting the track into the best possible condition, some races were actually run earlier to avoid heavy snow later in the day, and the TDs made prompt decisions; there were no delays on race days. I crashed in the DH and sprained my knee (no surgery required, I'll probably be back on skis in a week or so), and the conditions were tough but doable. I have no complaints, just operator error on my part. I thought the worst aspect of the Schladming SG where Lindsey got injured was the number and length of the delays. It was pretty obvious that the weather wasn't going to improve, and it sure looks in retrospect that the FIS was hard-wired into running the race. If that's true, then make the best job of course prep you can early on, skip all the delay drama, and send 'em....

Quote:
Originally Posted by primoz View Post

That super-g race was just fine. Yeah there was lot of delays but everything else was fine. It wasn' t first and it wasn't last race that got delayed. And thing is, Lindsey is pretty loud when things are not in her favor, while she's not all that loud when she benefits from circumstances wink.gif
post #22 of 28

The World Cup Moguls just ended in a similar fashion. Only the qualification run of the dual moguls counted since they were unable to complete the competition. You have to be safe and watch the weather.

post #23 of 28

She pulled up lame and skied out of the DH course today.  Sources say she said her repaired knee "completely gave out" on her.  I don't have an internet link yet, just saw the story on NBC Live a minute ago.

post #24 of 28

why am i not surprised? 

post #25 of 28

I'd like to believe that she is just being overly cautious on the knee.  However, the commentator said something like that she has no ACL at all.  Many believed that skiing competitively without an ACL wasn't possible.  I guess we will find out at Sochi.

post #26 of 28
Sadly, if she has and ACL, I'm inclined to think that without a year off a la Bode, her career is done. If there's no ACL, I think this weekend was probably the end. I hope I'm mistaken.
post #27 of 28

her graft broke in training she has no ACL at the moment...

post #28 of 28

I started a new thread for this when an online source became available..

 

Lindsey Vonn skied out and clutched her knee in pain

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