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Atomic beta carve convex bases; howto fix?

post #1 of 15
Thread Starter 

Hi guys,

 

I have a pair of Atomic beta carve skis and both of them are concave in tip and tail but convex in their waist. Please have a look at these base photos, is the convex base in third photo normal? If not, what should I do to flatten the bases? I've heard horror stories about shops and I do the side edges and p-tex repairs myself already. Is there an easy way to flatten the bases myself so that I can do the base edges thereafter? I'd like to remove the dings once in a while but with convex bases this will be hard I guess. These skis are 2nd hand so I don't know their history. Anyway I don't mind screwing them as they're almost at eol.

 

Another question, I still need to purchase a decent base edge sharpening tool. Given the waist of less than 7cm, is the SVST Final Cut base bevel guide a good match or is it too wide for my skis?

 

Thanks,

Martin

 

 

The tail:

 

 

The tip:

 

 

The waist:

post #2 of 15
On wide portion of ski it'll have some concave, as long as an inch or so from the edge is flat it's fine. As for convex some people say you can file the base flat but I had no luck when I tested, so base grind is probably the best option.

As for base bevel, I did it with a nicholson file, and some shim to raise it at a fixed distance from edge.
Edited by jzmtl - 3/11/13 at 5:48pm
post #3 of 15
Thread Starter 
Thanks jzmtl,

Then I think I'll give it a try before bringing them to a shop. I was hoping to hear some success stories but nobody seems to do DIY flattening.

Martin
post #4 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by martin7182 View Post

Thanks jzmtl,

Then I think I'll give it a try before bringing them to a shop. I was hoping to hear some success stories but nobody seems to do DIY flattening.

Martin

There are specialized tools for DYI, but unless you do it often it's cheaper to just bring it to a shop.

http://www.tognar.com/ski-visions-ski-base-flattener-structure-tool/
post #5 of 15

^^ buy the tool and do it yourself, just for the satisfaction of knowing it was a job well-done.

 

I wouldn't worry about the tip and tail concavity, but I would flatten the midsection.
 

post #6 of 15

wow, I had some Beta's around 1992 or so and the guy who sold them to me said they were made concave, intentionally, by design that is. not true?? not TRUE??eek.gif

post #7 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by davluri View Post

wow, I had some Beta's around 1992 or so and the guy who sold them to me said they were made concave, intentionally, by design that is. not true?? not TRUE??eek.gif

 

 

Must be true, cuz that's what I was told as well on my 10 EXs. Never really liked those skis - drove me crazy trying to wax them, among other things. Therefore, go ahead and try but keep your expectations low and prepare for possible disaster. 

post #8 of 15

Martin I feel the SVST Final Cut is over kill (from the cost) for the average tuner. You should tune the side edges, if your base edge bevel needs attention as in your skis your bases also need attention which is for the most part beyond what you can do with hand tools. As others have suggested having the base stone ground is the way to go. The idea with base edge bevel work is to only bevel the edge not the base. There is very little material that can be removed before you are beveling the p-tex also, which you do not want to do.

 

Ski Man makes two tools, one fixed angle and one adjustable angle tool. I have the adjustable tool and use it only when I have a burr on the base edge and only in that area not the entire edge. I do not use a file only a diamond. Beast makes a base tool for $20 which I also have, it is a single angle tool not adjustable.

post #9 of 15
Thread Starter 

Thanks Robert and the others,

 

I understand what you're saying. I got these skis second hand. I only know that they were maintained by a shop but apparently they didn't flatten the convex bases. So that was my first question, "is this normal"? If not, I guess instead of not-flattening the bases by a shop for say $30 I could better spend $60 for a DIY base flattener and use that when needed. If I can get my hands on an affordable tool then I may give it a try. Thanks for the link jzmtl, this tool looks promising.

 

I've seen the cheap Beast base beveler. But first I want to flatten the bases where they should be flat. Concavity in tip and tail is normal, so that's not the problem here.

Martin

post #10 of 15

Most often a convex are in the middle of the ski is a defective ski. Atomic warrantied a pair of Sl11.12 slaloms for that very reason. When the ski was pressed together it did not compress correctly.

 

Since much of the abrasion that occurs to a ski base is normally exacerbated underfoot (you just tend to have more pressure there more often) it is x-tra odd to have convexity under foot.

 

Have the skis stoneground, but I am not sure you can get them flat in the convex area without ruing the ski. Only so much base you can remove.

 

 

The concavity in the tip and tail is normal and will not effect skiability as long as the bases is flat about 10MM in from each edge

post #11 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman View Post

Most often a convex are in the middle of the ski is a defective ski. Atomic warrantied a pair of Sl11.12 slaloms for that very reason. When the ski was pressed together it did not compress correctly.

 

Since much of the abrasion that occurs to a ski base is normally exacerbated underfoot (you just tend to have more pressure there more often) it is x-tra odd to have convexity under foot.

 

Have the skis stoneground, but I am not sure you can get them flat in the convex area without ruing the ski. Only so much base you can remove.

 

 

The concavity in the tip and tail is normal and will not effect skiability as long as the bases is flat about 10MM in from each edge


I concur.  This is more base high than I've ever seen in the middle, even on a ballet ski.  If you grind  or file this flat you'll likely run through the p-tex.  What is that, over a 1/16 of an inch base high under foot? 

nonono2.gif

post #12 of 15
Thread Starter 

Thanks! I just measured it and it's no more than 0.5mm, so 1/50 inch. It looks like it's more but I can only slide three pieces of paper in between. I guess if I have more than couple mm side edge I also have more than enough p-tex. Perhaps not, these skis are very old; I don't care that much.

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atomicman View Post

 

Since much of the abrasion that occurs to a ski base is normally exacerbated underfoot (you just tend to have more pressure there more often) it is x-tra odd to have convexity under foot.

 

Thanks Atomicman! Since I'm on the edges all the time I'd expect the p-tex to wear faster near the edges. The video on http://www.tognar.com/ski-visions-ski-base-flattener-structure-tool/ also confirms that. Am I wrong?

 

Martin

post #13 of 15
Thread Starter 

Hi guys,

 

Meanwhile I've filed my bases flat with a milled tooth file. It was hard work and took me couple of hours, but with good result! The bases are nearly flat now and still there's enough p-tex left. I just put the file flat on the base and assured myself to take away p-tex from the middle of the base first, meanwhile pressing the file in the middle only. After a while I started to hit the edges and by then the base was almost flat again. Next, I used a base bevel guide and filed the base edges to 1 degree angle. They're smooth and shiny like never before.

 

Martin

post #14 of 15

Glad you were able to file them flat, "old school style".  That's how I do mine, but most here wouldn't risk hand filing that much material these days.  There are easier ways haha, One word of caution, be more careful hot waxing where you know the p-tex is thinner.  It can bubble if it gets too hot.

post #15 of 15
Thread Starter 

Thanks, I like to improve my "old school" skills as it makes me independent. A couple of decent basic tools and some time do the job pretty well. These skis were previously done by a shop but they didn't flatten the bases, horrible mad.gif. They did smooth the bases and structured them, but still with severe convexity under foot. Luckily my side edges were not over bevelled too much. After couple of passes with an Icecut coarse file they were at the desired angle and perfectly flat. I used waterproof marker to check that. Needless to say that I've used several diamond stones thereafter to get that shiny mirror finish.

Thanks for the waxing tip. It didn't bubble smile.gif
 

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