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Stockli 2014 info

post #1 of 28
Thread Starter 

Found this http://www.skisharp.com/Stoeckli_Ski-Highlights_2013-14_EN.pdf which has some useful stuff about new or changed Stockli skis for 2014. For this tradition-bound Swiss maker, pretty intense, from balsa and linen cores and directly sublimated Titanal topsheets to rec GS skis that only carve from the shovel. 

post #2 of 28

I want some now!

post #3 of 28
Thread Starter 

Yeah, a few of those look pretty interesting, taken with Dawg's and SJ's mini-reviews. 

post #4 of 28

Re: your comment on the other thread, I'd agree about the wider skis being more accessible to the general audience. I know the guy that is now honchoing Stockli USA and he fully understands that offering a euro-centric collection and hoping to sell it off of reputation and exclusivity will not be a road to success. For example, the fact that they will probably win the women's overall WC does not offer instant entree' to the US race market. They know that it must be done incrementally. For sure, some of the skis like the Laser SX and AR and the SR 107 were right at the top of their respective categories in my testing but their line is very scattered at the moment. Looking even more to the future as far as their entire product mix, I think that they are willing to take the steps necessary but it won't happen overnight.

 

SJ
 

post #5 of 28
Thread Starter 

Jim, could you speak to the new tails on the AR (and SC, too)? It appears to be a new approach to the second half of a turn, where the tail simply tracks the shovel, and looks to be very easy to disengage. Does it work on the snow for you? 

post #6 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by beyond View Post

Jim, could you speak to the new tails on the AR (and SC, too)? It appears to be a new approach to the second half of a turn, where the tail simply tracks the shovel, and looks to be very easy to disengage. Does it work on the snow for you? 

 

Can't speak to the SC b/c I didn't ski it. The AR was spectacular (as was the SX but in a very different way). Also, keep in mind that I can't speak to the most recent previous versions b/c I didn't ski any of them last year at all.

 

The theory is a torsional softening just at the end of the tail via a rubber insert in place of the more traditional metal. I think the key is the phrase "in place of". Softer torsion is a way to get a ski to release but it's actually a bit difficult to achieve without compromising the torsional stiffness where you do want it. On the cold hard snow @ Winter Park it worked very well. The AR is much smoother in and especially out of the turn than say the SX with similar dampening, but with less grip and power. While I got bugs in my teeth skiing the SX, I recognized the precise nature of that one relative to the somewhat easier feel of the AR.

 

BTW.....I got inattentive on the SX maybe 10 days or so ago and got a firm reminder to not do that.

post #7 of 28

Jim....I guess it is safe to say there will be no availability until fall?

post #8 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by SierraJim View Post

Re: your comment on the other thread, I'd agree about the wider skis being more accessible to the general audience. I know the guy that is now honchoing Stockli USA and he fully understands that offering a euro-centric collection and hoping to sell it off of reputation and exclusivity will not be a road to success. For example, the fact that they will probably win the women's overall WC does not offer instant entree' to the US race market. They know that it must be done incrementally. For sure, some of the skis like the Laser SX and AR and the SR 107 were right at the top of their respective categories in my testing but their line is very scattered at the moment. Looking even more to the future as far as their entire product mix, I think that they are willing to take the steps necessary but it won't happen overnight.

 

SJ
 

Does Stockli even care?  They only produce what, about 50,000 skis per year?  I am thinking if no one on this side of the pond ever heard of Tina Maze Stockli still sells out their production world wide.  The only way Stockli will care more about the USA market is if production increases. That doesn't mean their skis won't keep getting better, just that distribution seems to always be taken care of before production even starts.   Mass production, skis that can't carve  on ice and crappy quality control was never a business model Stockli aspired to.  Instead, the company is happy being framily run, profitable, producing skis of quality because they want to, and with little financial risk (read: no leverage).   In the past that "euro-centric" Stormrider collection, at least to me, was geared to people who could set an edge and carve through the three or four different types of snow you could get in one run somewhere in the alps.  It is really nice that Stockli engineered more friendly skis appealing to a wider population of skiers.  But assuming their race ski distribution stays on the east coast, will winning the "Best Ski" awards in a couple of categories next year sell them more skis, when the production is already so low?

 

My big issue with Stockli is that they are so hard to get rid of.  I have a pair in the garage now that is around 8 years old and they look practically new, and a pair of the old 63mm SCs in a Utah ski locker that look the same.  I did sell a pair of the old TT's in your last ski swap, only because I wanted a powder specific ski (that got all of four days use this season).


Edited by quant2325 - 2/28/13 at 6:05am
post #9 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by allan o'neil View Post

Jim....I guess it is safe to say there will be no availability until fall?

 

I didn't ask but I suspect you are correct.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by quant2325 View Post

Does Stockli even care?  They only produce what, about 50,000 skis per year?

 

Apparently they do or they wouldn't be taking the steps that they are.

 

SJ

post #10 of 28
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SierraJim View Post

The AR is much smoother in and especially out of the turn than say the SX with similar dampening, but with less grip and power. While I got bugs in my teeth skiing the SX, I recognized the precise nature of that one relative to the somewhat easier feel of the AR. Sounds like it will be a hit with the XL/SR78/MX78 crowd, who are looking for a refined all mountain cruiser.

 

BTW.....I got inattentive on the SX maybe 10 days or so ago and got a firm reminder to not do that. Yeah, I've never found Stockli's especially forgiving, even the ones that are claimed to be. Which the SX is not. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by quant2325 View Post

My big issue with Stockli is that they are so hard to get rid of.  I have a pair in the garage now that is around 8 years old and they look practically new, and a pair of the old 63mm SCs in a Utah ski locker that look the same.  I did sell a pair of the old TT's in your last ski swap, only because I wanted a powder specific ski (that got all of four days use this season). Odd, my experience has been just the opposite. I've sold several fairly quickly. May depend on the time of year and the location; I see more of them back here than I do out west. 

post #11 of 28

Thinking about the AR.  Could someone expanded upon the previous notes and review.  Thanks.

post #12 of 28
I am hoping to see additional input on the sr 107 for a powder and mid to heavy new snow application.

A great opportunity locally late last season provided a pair of the "old" 95s (which I purchased as a more powder oriented/new snow option) but if I had one criticism of them it's the weight. They are very good in soft and soft steep conditions/areas (when up to speed as noted elsewhere) but I find even at my weight and strength they are perhaps 1-1.5 lbs heavier per ski than the sx or the vxl. The center is stout but the tip is fantastic. I found them less forgiving than the vxl....

My ideal stockli New snow ski would be weight wise similar to the vxl/sx at just over 6 lbs per ski with binding and a similar center to the vxl (which i find adequately forgiving) with a tip and tail a closer to the tip on the original 95.

Any experiences on the 107 at the longer end of the line 190's would be appreciated

tw
post #13 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by SierraJim View Post
BTW.....I got inattentive on the SX maybe 10 days or so ago and got a firm reminder to not do that.

 

roflmao.gif

 

Some Stocklis can certainly do that to you, but where there's danger there's also reward. wink.gif

 

I'm really excited about the 2014 lineup.  There's definitely more Stockli buzz for the upcoming models than in many years.  I'm just also concerned about availability (at sane prices).  I have resigned myself to the fact that I may not be able to pickup a Laser AR, SR 95, or SR 107 for another year or two.

post #14 of 28

Who is the current US distributor for Stoeckli?

post #15 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by ID Terry View Post

Who is the current US distributor for Stoeckli?

 

The incoming company in the US will be a subsidiary not a distributor.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noodler View Post

 

roflmao.gif

 

Some Stocklis can certainly do that to you, but where there's danger there's also reward. wink.gif

 

I'm really excited about the 2014 lineup.  There's definitely more Stockli buzz for the upcoming models than in many years.  I'm just also concerned about availability (at sane prices).  I have resigned myself to the fact that I may not be able to pickup a Laser AR, SR 95, or SR 107 for another year or two.

 

Yup. Like I said, I was grinning so hard @ WP, I was getting bugs stuck in my teeth. Pretty high level of reward iff'n ya axe me.

 

Availability will probably not be good for the 2014 season as you just don't change things overnight and the new crew has a fair bit to work on. Fortunately, the new headmaster is a good man with a lot of background. The collection is pretty big but realistically, they might be wise to eliminate a fair bit of the "fringe" stuff from the US offering. I was told that reorder availability will be almost nil except for maybe the top 4 models. The price point game that Kastle is slowly slipping into is not the affirmed goal of the new admin @ Stockli. Planned scarcity would probably be a wise inventory target thus I don't expect prices to come down much if any for some time. Naturally, the admin costs, the planned expansion into racing, big mtn competition, marketing, and the planned dealer base restructure will bear some costs. I'm not in the least involved but if I were, I'd be keeping it lean for a while or two.

 

SJ

post #16 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by SierraJim View Post

Can't speak to the SC b/c I didn't ski it. The AR was spectacular (as was the SX but in a very different way). Also, keep in mind that I can't speak to the most recent previous versions b/c I didn't ski any of them last year at all.

The theory is a torsional softening just at the end of the tail via a rubber insert in place of the more traditional metal. I think the key is the phrase "in place of". Softer torsion is a way to get a ski to release but it's actually a bit difficult to achieve without compromising the torsional stiffness where you do want it. On the cold hard snow @ Winter Park it worked very well. The AR is much smoother in and especially out of the turn than say the SX with similar dampening, but with less grip and power. While I got bugs in my teeth skiing the SX, I recognized the precise nature of that one relative to the somewhat easier feel of the AR.

BTW.....I got inattentive on the SX maybe 10 days or so ago and got a firm reminder to not do that.

In your opinion does the AR replace the SX and the CX products by creating a ski that's between the two in terms of performance and stiffness? I just rode both at Stowe on some nice firm hard pack and was very impressed. I found that the CX was a great all mtn ski and a step above the Volkl Code Speedwall. Much more lively than the Volkl. I also found The SX to be comparable to the Volkl Racetiger Speedwall GS. I'm not a fan of rocker skis but it sounds like the AR has what it takes to deliver stability and performance?
post #17 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by quant2325 View Post

 

My big issue with Stockli is that they are so hard to get rid of.  I have a pair in the garage now that is around 8 years old and they look practically new, and a pair of the old 63mm SCs in a Utah ski locker that look the same.  I did sell a pair of the old TT's in your last ski swap, only because I wanted a powder specific ski (that got all of four days use this season).

IF those SC ever need a new home let me know.

post #18 of 28

Just skied the SR107 today in 8-12" of medium weight powder...review to come..popcorn.gif

post #19 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post

Just skied the SR107 today in 8-12" of medium weight powder...review to come..popcorn.gif

 

popcorn.gif indeed.  It just occurred to me that we need an Ullr-sipping emoticon...

post #20 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by wallyk View Post


In your opinion does the AR replace the SX and the CX products by creating a ski that's between the two in terms of performance and stiffness? I just rode both at Stowe on some nice firm hard pack and was very impressed. I found that the CX was a great all mtn ski and a step above the Volkl Code Speedwall. Much more lively than the Volkl. I also found The SX to be comparable to the Volkl Racetiger Speedwall GS. I'm not a fan of rocker skis but it sounds like the AR has what it takes to deliver stability and performance?


Replace?...........No, IMO it doesn't. The SX is a purt-near race ski with a tighter sidecut. The AR is much like the SX in the middle 90% of the ski but the tip and the tail are a little more compliant and.....the AR is wider. We are close on making a deal with Stockli. If we do...........I'll probably place the SX on the race ski wall along with things like the Head Magnum, Course Pro Ti and the Masters race skis. OTH, I'll probably place the AR on the rec ski wall right next to the Kastle MX 83 (for example).

 

I know how to ski race skis but honestly, I don't wanna. The SX is absolutely great for that perfect day on cold hard snow and good light. (I'm not sure that I've ever skied anything better) But......I also know my limits and personally I'd choose the AR as my own hard snow ski of choice over the SX.

 

BTW....this is probably because I misplaced my "A" game a while ago and don't know where to rent one.

 

SJ

post #21 of 28
 
 
 

yahoo.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by SierraJim View Post


Replace?...........No, IMO it doesn't. The SX is a purt-near race ski with a tighter sidecut. The AR is much like the SX in the middle 90% of the ski but the tip and the tail are a little more compliant and.....the AR is wider. We are close on making a deal with Stockli. If we do...........I'll probably place the SX on the race ski wall along with things like the Head Magnum, Course Pro Ti and the Masters race skis. OTH, I'll probably place the AR on the rec ski wall right next to the Kastle MX 83 (for example).

 

I know how to ski race skis but honestly, I don't wanna. The SX is absolutely great for that perfect day on cold hard snow and good light. (I'm not sure that I've ever skied anything better) But......I also know my limits and personally I'd choose the AR as my own hard snow ski of choice over the SX.

 

BTW....this is probably because I misplaced my "A" game a while ago and don't know where to rent one.

 

SJ

 

 
post #22 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by wallyk View Post


In your opinion does the AR replace the SX and the CX products by creating a ski that's between the two in terms of performance and stiffness? I just rode both at Stowe on some nice firm hard pack and was very impressed. I found that the CX was a great all mtn ski and a step above the Volkl Code Speedwall. Much more lively than the Volkl. I also found The SX to be comparable to the Volkl Racetiger Speedwall GS. I'm not a fan of rocker skis but it sounds like the AR has what it takes to deliver stability and performance?

 

The more likely scenario is that the AR replaces the Stormrider 78 (which replaced the Stormrider XXL).  The Stormrider 78 didn't make much sense being part of the Stormrider series.  The Stormrider 78 evolving into the Laser AR makes a lot more sense for the model line-up.  Since the Stormrider 78 isn't coming back next season I believe that this is more likely what their intentions are.

post #23 of 28

The Stockli 2013-2014 Catalog has been posted here.

post #24 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by SierraJim View Post


Replace?...........No, IMO it doesn't. The SX is a purt-near race ski with a tighter sidecut. The AR is much like the SX in the middle 90% of the ski but the tip and the tail are a little more compliant and.....the AR is wider. We are close on making a deal with Stockli. If we do...........I'll probably place the SX on the race ski wall along with things like the Head Magnum, Course Pro Ti and the Masters race skis. OTH, I'll probably place the AR on the rec ski wall right next to the Kastle MX 83 (for example).

 

I know how to ski race skis but honestly, I don't wanna. The SX is absolutely great for that perfect day on cold hard snow and good light. (I'm not sure that I've ever skied anything better) But......I also know my limits and personally I'd choose the AR as my own hard snow ski of choice over the SX.

 

How's the AR in moguls compared to the SX?

post #25 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by chemist View Post

How's the AR in moguls compared to the SX?

Have not skied the SX (but did do a run or two on the AR), but after flexing and handling both models my impression is that both would legitimately suck in moguls (if skied in proper length).  YMMV biggrin.gif

post #26 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexzn View Post

Have not skied the SX (but did do a run or two on the AR), but after flexing and handling both models my impression is that both would legitimately suck in moguls (if skied in proper length).  YMMV biggrin.gif

"Legitimately suck"; I like that.  

 

Dawg has observed that both the MX78 and FireArrow 84 EDT are excellent in bumps, so I thought the AR, at least, might be as well....

post #27 of 28
Thread Starter 

I'd be surprised if they legitimately suck, especially the AR, given that some similar Stockli skis I know do not, ranging from the SC to the CX to the 78 and the old XL. I've always found Stocklis to be fairly exacting, but that's different from sucking. Of course, having not skied the AR or SX yet, my opinion is worth about .5 grain of salt...

post #28 of 28

Well, if a stiff GS race-type ski is your idea of a perfect bump ski, then I think the Stockli would do the job rather nicely.  They would not be my first choice, but different people have different tastes.  As I said, YMMV. But I would not choose to ski a slalom race ski in an off-piste chute either :-)  I did like Kastle MX88 in bumps, but that particular ski felt like it could do just about everything very well and its still a far cry from a real race carver.  

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