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DPS Wailer 112RP or Rossignol Soul 7?

post #1 of 24
Thread Starter 

Which is the better ski?

 

Headed to St. Anton last week of March and will be renting 1 of the above.  I'm 6'1", 225 pounds.  Will be doing a mix of on and off piste.  I'm leaning towards the Soul.  

post #2 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by chraya View Post

Which is the better ski?

 

Headed to St. Anton last week of March and will be renting 1 of the above.  I'm 6'1", 225 pounds.  Will be doing a mix of on and off piste.  I'm leaning towards the Soul.  

Will you be able to rent the soul7?  It is a 2014 model only shipping now.  

If you cannot get it, then your decision is made up.

post #3 of 24
Thread Starter 

Yes, I found a shop that has the Soul 7 for rent.

post #4 of 24

when i was in park city last week everybody rented that s7 i mean everyone almost half my chairlift rides had someone with them on and none of them had anything bad to say about them, everyone of them just said awesome skis smiling.
 

post #5 of 24

Hi, chaya.

 

First off, I'm an on-mountain rep for Rossignol, so keep that in mind when I rave about the Soul 7.

 

I can't speak to the Wailer (haven't skied it), but I have skied the Soul 7 in both the 180 and the 188 lengths.  It was last week at Snowbasin, UT, in conditions of about 2" of new snow over a firm, old-snow base.  I skied groomers, off-piste, and moderate bumps.  I'm the same height as you and about 30# lighter and I really loved the Soul 7, in both lengths.

 

I was a tiny bit skeptical about this ski when I first started hearing about it because the honeycomb construction of the tip and tail makes this a much lighter ski than any of its predecessors.  I've never really been a fan of lightweight skis in crud and junky snow conditions because I felt like the fronts of the skis would get bounced around rather than driving through uneven snow.

 

That's how I felt prior to skiing the Soul 7.  I'm not exactly sure how they do it, but this ski still feels damp and substantial.  I skied it very fast, through all of the conditions, and it just felt solid no matter what I did.  It was very easy to initiate turns, but it was also very predictable.  There's a relatively minimal early rise front and back, so you can actually "find" the front of the ski on firm snow.  I felt it carved extremely well on firm snow and didn't "feel" like a 106mm (the 180 length) or 108mm (the 188) width ski on hard snow.  

 

In the off-piste, I just felt super confident on it.  I found myself veering off into very tight clumps of little aspens just because the ski seemed to go exactly where I wanted it to go.

 

Obviously, I didn't get a chance to ski it in deeper snow.  We'll have several pairs here in Jackson Hole by next week, and maybe (hopefully) I'll get a chance to update this in a week or two.  I can't imagine that it wouldn't be GREAT in soft snow and powder.

 

One last point... I skied the 180 length with the binding mounted center.  The techs recommended that I ski the 188 2cm back.  I've never been one to pay any attention to mounting points, and I honestly can't say that I could really tell much difference in how the two lengths felt, but I do know that I felt really good on the 188, so maybe there's something to it.  That's another thing I hope to play around with when I get on some demos soon.

 

Good luck with the choice.  I suspect you'd have a great time on either ski.  Is there any chance that you could ski the Rossi for a couple of days and the DPS for a couple?  That might be informative.


Edited by Bob Peters - 2/28/13 at 4:12pm
post #6 of 24

Bob - it sounds like Rossignol did it again with the Soul 7 icon14.gif

Too bad you weren't at Snowbasin a few days later.  On Sunday they reported 27" over two days and opened No Name late morning.  It didn't suck.

post #7 of 24
Thread Starter 

I booked the Soul 7. Unfortunately, if the recent warm weather keeps up there may not be much snow.

post #8 of 24

Bob, I am seeing these pop up in several shops in Vail & Beaver Creek, but none has any set up as demos.  I've searched the Rossi website for a way to ask this question....to no avail.  I'd love to buy a pair, but not before I demo for length.  Do you (or anyone at Rossi) know of a shop in CO that has these skis for demos?

post #9 of 24

Hi chraya - would you mind saying which shop, I will be in St Anton just before the end of season and would like to try the soul 7.

post #10 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by chraya View Post

Yes, I found a shop that has the Soul 7 for rent.
I tried a set at the industry demo days in February, I also tried the latest DPS 99 skis, if you are going to be skiing on piste as well as off piste, the Soul 7 is a better ski in my opinion for on piste, both are an excellent choice in deep snow..
Edited by paulski - 4/2/13 at 7:50pm
post #11 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by repag View Post

Hi chraya - would you mind saying which shop, I will be in St Anton just before the end of season and would like to try the soul 7.

Jennewein. Booking a specific ski is a 2 step process.  I e-mailed them first and corresponded re: what they had available.  Then I booked online and sent the booking ref. to the same guy who answered my e-mail (Martin Jennewein, who I assume is the owner) and they had the skis waiting for me.  I

post #12 of 24

Thanks! I actually rented from them earlier this year but didn't see the DPS or Soul 7 - guess it pays to reserve in advance.

post #13 of 24
Thread Starter 

They've got three shops.  The guy in the shop didn't understand me (nor did he know the Soul 7) until I showed him the e-mail correspondence.  He got on the phone and the skis showed up 15 minutes later.

post #14 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by paulski View Post

I tried a set at the industry demo days in February, I also tried the latest DPS 99 skis, if you are going to be skiing on piste as well as off piste, the Soul 7 is a better ski in my opinion for on piste, both are an excellent choice in deep snow..
DPS 99 is nowhere near the same as the 112 Wailer. The 112 Wailer would be my choice over its smaller cousin, the 99. I sold my 112 Wailers las season & I expect the Soul 7 to be in my 2013-14 quiver as I appreciated their quickness for eastern tight spots.
post #15 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gostan View Post


DPS 99 is nowhere near the same as the 112 Wailer. The 112 Wailer would be my choice over its smaller cousin, the 99. I sold my 112 Wailers las season & I expect the Soul 7 to be in my 2013-14 quiver as I appreciated their quickness for eastern tight spots.

Real interested in your preference for the Souls over the Wailers - especially for eastern trees. I am adding one or the other on the wide end of my quiver for Maine trees and for deep and crud. I suspect others would like to hear as well.

Do tell....

post #16 of 24

I skied the Soul 7's in 180 for about 2 hours at Berkshire East this year on a fairly soft snow day and absolutely loved them.  They gave me a real feeling of confidence and were very quick and light.  On the groomers I couldn't believe how well they carved, and in the trees and bumps (neither of which I'm very good at) they felt great.

 

I have a pair on order.

post #17 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiMangoJazz View Post

I skied the Soul 7's in 180 for about 2 hours at Berkshire East this year on a fairly soft snow day and absolutely loved them.  They gave me a real feeling of confidence and were very quick and light.  On the groomers I couldn't believe how well they carved, and in the trees and bumps (neither of which I'm very good at) they felt great.

 

I have a pair on order.

Well of course you do. You are the Soul-man.

D1

post #18 of 24

Let me compare:

Soul 7 has carbon fiber, wood, honeycomb, and made by a company with about 50+ years experience. the cost is in line with all premium skis, $699. made in Europe somewhere, I believe. Strong in every sector of ski design.

 

DPS has fiberglass and wood, nothing exciting in the build, just building skis for what, a few years, made in China. Cost is a ridiculous $799. Only capable of building a powder ski. 

 

I just can't decide.

post #19 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by davluri View Post

Let me compare:

Soul 7 has carbon fiber, wood, honeycomb, and made by a company with about 50+ years experience. the cost is in line with all premium skis, $699. made in Europe somewhere, I believe. Strong in every sector of ski design.

 

DPS has fiberglass and wood, nothing exciting in the build, just building skis for what, a few years, made in China. Cost is a ridiculous $799. Only capable of building a powder ski. 

 

I just can't decide.

Thanks for your comments. 

However, I would be particularly interested in your actual, on-snow, side to side comparisons between the two skis.

I await your thoughtful reply.

D1

post #20 of 24

I owned the 112RP Pure, and the previous S7, haven't skied the Soul 7. 6', 165. What I can say is that the 112 is a total hoot for soft new snow in the trees. Just throw them around, bounce off stuff, take air without thinking, shwoosh. The S7 is damper, heavier, calmer in the same setting, and actually more normal feeling to ski since it's a lot softer flexing. But a different style, less casual throwing and mid-course changes, and air; more smearing, banking, and sudden checks, wiggles. Both are great in that setting. Outside, I'd give the edge to the 112 on smooth hard scratch; it has remarkable lateral stiffness. Ditto at speed in smooth snow or soft chop, where the S7 can get nervous. But in bumps, or in variable stiff snow, or rutty mank, clear edge to the S7. That damper, heavier feel really tamps down things, while the 112 can begin to jiggle your fillings out. Or feel like it's going to spring into space. Although the S7 can get thrown around too, just in a more traditional way. As far as I can tell from reading, the RPC is stiffer all around, but not necessarily damper. Which is why next year's are going to have Goode's solution, metal at the ends to calm down the oscillations. I'm a Kastle guy, a fan of reducing tip and tail mass, not adding to it. (May be totally wrong and eating my words by March 2014, of course.)

 

So I'm pretty psyched about the Soul and Super 7, even though a 20% overall weight loss still means they're just average. But I love where the weight's gone from. If they have preserved the dampness and ease of the old 7's, but added some edge grip and stability, they could be formidable. 

post #21 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by beyond View Post

I owned the 112RP Pure, and the previous S7, haven't skied the Soul 7. 6', 165. What I can say is that the 112 is a total hoot for soft new snow in the trees. Just throw them around, bounce off stuff, take air without thinking, shwoosh. The S7 is damper, heavier, calmer in the same setting, and actually more normal feeling to ski since it's a lot softer flexing. But a different style, less casual throwing and mid-course changes, and air; more smearing, banking, and sudden checks, wiggles. Both are great in that setting. Outside, I'd give the edge to the 112 on smooth hard scratch; it has remarkable lateral stiffness. Ditto at speed in smooth snow or soft chop, where the S7 can get nervous. But in bumps, or in variable stiff snow, or rutty mank, clear edge to the S7. That damper, heavier feel really tamps down things, while the 112 can begin to jiggle your fillings out. Or feel like it's going to spring into space. Although the S7 can get thrown around too, just in a more traditional way. As far as I can tell from reading, the RPC is stiffer all around, but not necessarily damper. Which is why next year's are going to have Goode's solution, metal at the ends to calm down the oscillations. I'm a Kastle guy, a fan of reducing tip and tail mass, not adding to it. (May be totally wrong and eating my words by March 2014, of course.)

 

So I'm pretty psyched about the Soul and Super 7, even though a 20% overall weight loss still means they're just average. But I love where the weight's gone from. If they have preserved the dampness and ease of the old 7's, but added some edge grip and stability, they could be formidable. 

Thanks for yours. I skied a a pair of 112 Pures (178's) one amazing day in Utah (see my Powder Mtn TR if interested in details/pics). It was the first time I had ever been on a "real" powder ski in "real" powder. And it was amazing. Truly, like a different genre of skiing. More like dancing. Often a non-linear experience with the ability to move the ski instantaneously away from the direction of travel to initiate the next move or avoid something. I have never felt more in control on a pair of skis and yet I have also never felt less snow "connected" either. I found the Pures, as you say, to be quite solid when on edge on packed powder, though I did not do any groomer runs on them. For me, in soft bumps, they were a revelation. With the front rocker, it was not possible to bury the tips. And with the 130cm or so underfoot, and instantly available soft edge, I slithered and smeared my way down with seemingly no effort. I skied six non-stop hours that day and felt less tired after a shorter days on skis I own.

You mention Kastle's. The ski I brought with me was the no metal version of the MX 98. Fun but a  wanna-be in the powder and soft bumps when compared to the Pures. They were, not surprisingly, more solid on 2D snow as it, by design, is a conventionally "directional" ski, as I call it.

I too am aware of the metal dampers in the Pure 3 design for next year and was putting pennies aside for them when news of the Soul 7 began to trickle in. Much as I would like to have a pair of the Pures, my gut tells me that the Soul's are going to be a more versatile ski, especially for the variable conditions we get in Maine. In Utah the two conditions I encountered were soft and softer. In Maine, you can go from boiler plate to powder stash in two turns. Again, not having skied the Soul's but having read all I can find (along with your thoughts on the Super 7), my sense is that they will be able to handle those transitions more capably. "Formidable," as you say. And at about half the price of admission.

Happy trails

D1 

post #22 of 24

The ski you really should try is the RPC.  I haven't skied the Rossi, thought it too heavy.   I'm using Dynafit Speed bindings.   So didn't bother but it was in the hunt originally when I went looking.  The 112 RP is nice but really too soft for what I wanted  (6"1 and 190#).  In the typically chopped up powder we get mid day I have skis I enjoyed more than my 112 RPs.

 

The first reviews of the RPC were not impressive.  Glad I eventually ignored them and landed a pair of the RPCs, but not expecting much.

 

RPC has all the playfulness of the 112RP but the ability to really rail when required on a limited amount of ice or hard pack.  Powder is a given.  Long FAST GS turns or slow quick turns through tight trees are easy. This is an incredibly versital ski.

 

It has less rocker in tip and tail than the 112RP and the addition of extra metal (current version) in the tip and tail.  Hand flexing the RPC is down right scary, it is soooooo stiff. And the 115mm under foot would seem to  define the ski as a powder board.   The carbon makes this a stiff ski torsionally as well.  At Marshal's suggestion I also mounted them 1mm forward of center.  I really like this ski,  Which is a surprise as I really didn't like the 112 RP. 

 

Like Goldilock...said, "this one is just right".

post #23 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane View Post

The ski you really should try is the RPC.  I haven't skied the Rossi, thought it too heavy.   I'm using Dynafit Speed bindings.   So didn't bother but it was in the hunt originally when I went looking.  The 112 RP is nice but really too soft for what I wanted  (6"1 and 190#).  In the typically chopped up powder we get mid day I have skis I enjoyed more than my 112 RPs.

 

The first reviews of the RPC were not impressive.  Glad I eventually ignored them and landed a pair of the RPCs, but not expecting much.

 

RPC has all the playfulness of the 112RP but the ability to really rail when required on a limited amount of ice or hard pack.  Powder is a given.  Long FAST GS turns or slow quick turns through tight trees are easy. This is an incredibly versital ski.

 

It has less rocker in tip and tail than the 112RP and the addition of extra metal (current version) in the tip and tail.  Hand flexing the RPC is down right scary, it is soooooo stiff. And the 115mm under foot would seem to  define the ski as a powder board.   The carbon makes this a stiff ski torsionally as well.  At Marshal's suggestion I also mounted them 1mm forward of center.  I really like this ski,  Which is a surprise as I really didn't like the 112 RP. 

 

Like Goldilock...said, "this one is just right".

I looked at the RPC and read probably the same reviews you did. They do not get the big "gush" their softer brother does.

The single size put me off more than anything. I am 5'9/175. Were I to use this ski only in the open, I would consider the length. But the tree skiing in Maine tends to be very tight and I am not very good at it (at least until I got on the 178 RP's). I am concerned that this ski, which only comes in 192cm, would be too much for me to handle - especially with less rocker, more stiffness and more underfoot. Would really like the opportunity to try them though. Were you on the 190cm RP's?

Interesting that DPS describes the RP to be more capable on hard than the DPC, and more versatile,  but you found just the opposite to be true for you.

This is how DPS compares the two siblings:

 

 The RPC shape gives up some of the Wailer 112RP's hard snow carving performance and versatility in exchange for enhanced crud and powder velocity.

post #24 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by deliberate1 View Post

Were you on the 190cm RP's?

Interesting that DPS describes the RP to be more capable on hard than the DPC, and more versatile,  but you found just the opposite to be true for you.

 

Here is the video I found most enlightening from DPS.  This is what convinced me to give the "112" another try even if it is a 115 version :)

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hq2VAjV8bJo

 

Yes, I was on the 190cm version of the PURE 112RP.  And a 192 on the PURE 138 Lotus.  (Zero4 and One boots)

But one of my all time favorite skis is the Dynafit Hauscaran in a 177cm (TLT boots) as a playful, fun ski in most any conditions and unsurpassed *for me* in tight trees.  I like a stiff tail and little or no rocker in the tail on a shorter ski.  The rocker up front I don't want flapping around at speed and the ability to carve bullet proof ice with some acuity important as well.

 

I thought both  the 138 and the 112RP too much of a quiver ski instead of a all around ski     (duh! that is obvious on the 138 and not nearly the versitility of the 112 everyone else described ).

 

I bought 196cm Hauscarans and the 192 RPC at the same time.   Expecting GREAT things from the longer Hauscaran and not much from the the RPC.   It turned out the other way around.  And I was making the comparison on two and three hr intervals during a 3 day dump of new powder on a hard ice (west coast standards)  base that was rained on before freezing up solid.  Add two feet of fluff to that while you are still skiing the ice as the base was interesting for the first day and a half.

 

Everytime the place got skied out and I thought the conditions just sucked I went back to the RPC and found it was the ski lacking and not the conditions.  Harsh reality and eventual glowing accolades for the RPC (much to my surprise!)

 

In all my internet surfing I found two guys describing the RPC as a *115 Lotus* on another forum...which I found intriging.  Marshal Olson and Stephen Drake of DPS were saying the 112RP was a combo of the 138 and the Cassiar 80.  (not in my book by any means but I did get the idea what what they intended)  All those comments  and the newest technology from DPS built into the RPC had me intrigued.   My bet is the RPC was the ski DPS was really trying to make when they came out with the 112RP.   Blister's review damn near killed this ski for the 1st season I suspect.  Not sure the reviewer had a clue either after rereading that one a few times and his later comments.  Either he got a totally different ski than I did or the guy had no clue.  The non-DPS tune just doesn't jive for me...sorry.  

 

DPS sez:

 

• “The RPC is designed to ski more in the fall line with a shallower turn shape. It’s for the charging, directional skier …who wants to put less emphasis on the RP’s hard snow performance and more on its abilities in crud and soft snow.”

 

***I found it a better fall line/faster mach 1 type GS turns, ski with no lack of hard snow (or ice) perfirmance.  I also found them easy to do slow, super tight turns on steep or even really moderate terrain with ease. Little difference in the 112RP and the RPS here it is only a matter of a little (very little) effort.     

 

• “The RPC gives up some of the 112 RP’s hard snow-carving performance and versatility in exchange for enhanced crud busting and speed through powder.”

 

*** I didn't find that to be the case at ALL!  I think the RPC has soem serious added  attributes and literally giving away nothing to the 112RP....other than a more skilled/stronger skier will be happier on the  RPC by comparison.  Blister's review hints at this btw.

 

• “The RPC will allow skiers to surf powder in the morning, then charge leftovers all day as they sniff out stashes.”

 

***this I found spot on.....

 

Blister sez:

 

"the RPC is absolutely a Wailer 112RP at heart, as it shares some of the same characteristics that helped put the original RP on the map".

 

***Not IMO....I think the RPC is best described as a "115 Lotus"  Forget all that stuff/nonsense about it's connection to the the "beginner's 112 RP".  Bad marketing on DPS part IMO.

 

"I’m not sure I knew what “torsionally rigid” really meant until laying down some blisteringly fast, high-energy carves out the bottom of Alta’s Collin’s face on the RPC. In this respect, DPS’s engineering and construction of the ski is seriously impressive."

 

I mention Rossi 207s below.  I do know what a torsionally rigid ski is.  The 138s and the 112RP are good examples.  The RPC even more so.  You want to ski ice...serious ice... get a torsionally rigid ski.  Make it rigid enough and you can ski ice on a soft boot and 115 under foot. 

 

Blisters' review here:

http://blistergearreview.com/gear-reviews/2012-2013-dps-wailer-112rpc-2#comment-16640

 

To prep my RPCs I simply ironed in a thick coat of some spring wax on the Hauscarans and the RPS and took them ot the hill without scaping them.   No detune on either and I wouldn't call either ski hooky or even anything close to hooky. 

 

I know this will insult  the majority of 112RP owners but here goes...easily to describe the 112RP as the ski for the guy that doesn't know how to ski powder.....and you'll never have to learn on the 112RP.  It is a super easy ski to ski...any where.  But for me it is a "beginners"  ski.  I come from old school Rossi and K2 SL/GS 207s race skis if that helps.  The newest (rockered and 5 point shaped) skis have made me a much, much better skier with less effort involved.

 

FWIW I am skiing the RPC with a Dynafit One boot....and the short Hauscarans with a TLTP.   I've already retired the carbon Zero4s. I have found I really don't like/want stiff boots on any of these skis.  YMMV 

 

This got so long winded I eventuially decided to just make it a review:

 

http://www.epicski.com/t/119972/dps-112-rpc-aka-lotus-115


Edited by Dane - 4/14/13 at 12:41pm
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