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Is Patagonia killing its dealers with mid/end of season 60% sales?

post #1 of 29
Thread Starter 
Patagonia has gone wild with their 60% sale first week of February, even though as a customer I love to get some new gear for less than half the price, this looks like too aggressive and not good for dealers that sell Patagonia gear.

Last year and the mid year sales were up tp 50% I believe and it's already somehow aggresive, but at a really end of season period, like August and March.

Years ago my parents used to have a surf shop and I remember the price tags usually came with a 110% over the paid price, I have no idea how much that is right now but I'm assuming it's not much different.

Looks like these sale while good for Patagonia who wants to get sold out on all past colors and current season gear doesn't look too good for dealers that might dealing with customers asking for price match and things like that which they might not be able to afford...

Also who is gonna buy a full price gear from Patagonia now? I usually never pay full price on stuff specially because you can get last season for a much more affordable price, but now it looks like if you wait for mid/end season you can have current season gear for 40% of the original price.

It also seems to me that Patagonia is telling everyone that their gear are really overpriced!
post #2 of 29

As a Patagonia dealer we are electing to drop the brand completely.

 

SJ

post #3 of 29

I'm not a fan of the company, something about attitude they have to address IMO, so I won't mind anyone dumping their product. I won't be buying it a 40% and having people on the hill think I value the item for quality or style.

post #4 of 29

Well, the only stuff that is at 60% off is really the snow-sports resort specific gear that isn't selling. Ironically, it is the same products I was complaining about here:

 

http://www.epicski.com/t/118106/patagonia-snow-lineup-what-happened-to-the-fit

 

There more traditional fit and styled clothes (alpine and touring lineups) are barely discounted, if at all.  

 

It seems that I am not the only person who isn't too impressed with their snow sports lineup as of late.  With that said, the local Patagonia store just sends back any gear that doesn't sell, for a full credit, so they don't care.  They are at 20% off on winter stuff, but yeah, still have a TON of gear in there.  

 

A good alternative to Patagonia is Outdoor Research. Awesome product, more consistent fit, and incredible warranty service.  Patagonia tried to hose me a couple of times with warranty issues recently with items I sent in: I had to go to the Reno store and actually talk to someone to get my credit (and then was told I should have been credited, it was an obvious warranty issue). So far, my experience with OR has been what the warranty department was at Patagonia 10 years ago, which is to say, awesome! 

post #5 of 29

A skiing buddy of mine just successfully made a second warranty claim on some ski pants at the Patagonia store in Boston.  In fact, they upgraded the pants to the newer higher priced ones since the original pants were out of stock.  I guess the real question is " why did he even have  two defective ski pants over the past several years?"  Patagonia QC must be pretty suspect.

post #6 of 29

The zipper on my Patagonia down sweater failed two years ago.  I called and they told me to send it in which I did and had a brand now one about 10 days later.  Out of several Patagonia items that's the only time I've had a failure.  None of my OR stuff has failed but if it does I expect they will fix or replace it without any hassles.

post #7 of 29
Thread Starter 

I still believe they offer great quality products, there was the issue with fit which might have been a miss this season? But I'm not sure, also it's true that mostly the snow sport stuff is on sale, but if I'm not mistaken the super alpine line was at least 50% off in the mid year sale which is also a huge discount jacket was something like $240, so maybe even more then 50%

 

I did get for my wife a Primo Down jacket and the fit was good, maybe M's gear has a weird fit right now, considering the pictures I've seen from Dawgcathing the M's Primo jacket has a weird fit, apparently not the W's, she is usually a small and the small fits perfectly.

post #8 of 29

Is it just me or did Patagonia lose a fair bit of their design and materials originality, from the company they were 10 years ago?

post #9 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cantunamunch View Post

Is it just me or did Patagonia lose a fair bit of their design and materials originality, from the company they were 10 years ago?

Not sure... they have a good amount of products using Goretex and Merino which is a largely used material not much different than most others, they are trying to ramp up their H2No proprietary fabric and have probably good results with their capilene and mid layers. 

 

The biggest problem which has been discussed in another thread quoted by dawgcatching is their weird fit in the last couple of seasons. For instance, it doesn't look like much difference in fit for the Relaxed Fit Powslayer and the Regular Fit Powderbowl or Primo jacket. Also the same Regular fit on Super Alpine and Super Pluma which absolutely have a very different fit than the snow sports Regular fit gear.

post #10 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by mfa81 View Post

Not sure... they have a good amount of products using Goretex and Merino which is a largely used material not much different than most others,

 

Yes.    And their designs are, well. not much different than most others.    Nowhere nearly as technical as some, which (you would think) would be made up by design appearance (rather generic of late IMO), and fit/comfort (which is too chancy for untried purchasing IMO)

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mfa81 View Post and have probably good results with their capilene and mid layers. 

 

Specifically looking at this segment, most of these had a market presence as innovative products  10 years ago (stink-free Capilene and Regulator-type mid-layers were innovation leaders then.)     Have they had a product in any segment  recently that is this innovative?

 

Certainly fit is part of what I'm thinking of (see above).

post #11 of 29

As far as product goes: I tried on 3 hard shell high end jackets this year (either in the store or rep's samples): the Primo ($550 retail): the Powderhorn Corbet ($600 retail), and the OR Vanguard ($625 retail). The Vanguard and Corbet were like a soft shell: stretchy 3-way Gore fabric, super comfortable, supple, easy to wear. The Primo felt like a TNF hardshell from 15 years ago: crunchy, crinkly, so stiff that you wonder if it is meant to break in, like a Brooks saddle.  After wearing the other 2, there is no way someone would buy the Primo, fit nonwithstanding.  I have an H2no jacket from last year (Nano storm) and it wears much "softer" than the Primo. I also have a hard-shell from their snowsports lineup in 2008 (Rubicon jacket and pants) and they were (and still are) the best outerwear purchases I have ever made.  Super durable, soft, supple, comfortable, great fit.  I have 200 days on that stuff, at least, and they still are in good shape. 

post #12 of 29

As a guy who is surrounded by 100+ day skiers, I have to say that the PataGucci does seem to be about as reliable and bomb-proof as it comes. People keep trying these new brands like Flylow and so on, but they don't seem to have teh same staying power. If I ever manage to kill my Rubicon pants, my next ones will be PataGuccis too.

post #13 of 29
Patagonia stuff fits me well, even the Primo. I do buy when on sale though. Don't think stuff from manufacturers like arcteryx, millet, mammut, etc is that much different/better. Had an arcteryx soft shell jacket and the fit on that jacket was a bit short, even though it was for skiing.

I can see why dealers would be upset. As a consumer, the brand works for me and the pieces have been good quality
post #14 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic View Post

As a guy who is surrounded by 100+ day skiers, I have to say that the PataGucci does seem to be about as reliable and bomb-proof as it comes. People keep trying these new brands like Flylow and so on, but they don't seem to have teh same staying power. If I ever manage to kill my Rubicon pants, my next ones will be PataGuccis too.


It's dumb to compare a massive clothing/lifestyle company like Patagonia to a small production manufacturer with a limited mandate like Flylow, Trew etc. The discrepancy in audience size is massive. Most people would not even know what the smaller brands are.

post #15 of 29
I checked out the sale, but most things size L seemed to go very quickly. Can't really see it being that detrimental to retailers.
post #16 of 29
Thread Starter 

It was everything gone pretty much the first couple of days I guess.

 

But based on dawgcatching when he says that local stores can send things back, but I'm not sure if only Patagonia stores or other dealers that sell Patagonia can also do that, it would be good if they took it back or at least have some sort of deal with the dealers so they can also get into their sale if they choose to and be compensated by Patagonia for the price dropping.

post #17 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgcatching View Post

With that said, the local Patagonia store just sends back any gear that doesn't sell, for a full credit, so they don't care.  They are at 20% off on winter stuff, but yeah, still have a TON of gear in there.  

 

Is there any reason why vendors aren't allowed to sell for the same price on the web? Why don't they allow vendors to discount to the web price and then do whatever to make it whole.  ...or do they allow it?

 

I found something at a local store that is on the web for 60% off. The retailer (understandably) looked miffed when I mentioned the 60% off. I want to buy from my local vendor...but $100 is alot of coin.  I ended up buying it off the web.

 

If the local store would have offered it at even 50% off, I would have bought it from them...but it was just too much a price difference.

post #18 of 29

The 60% off is the price they should price this stuff to start from... I hate to complain, but some of the snow sports gear is way over priced.... IMO... 

post #19 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemat View Post

The 60% off is the price they should price this stuff to start from... I hate to complain, but some of the snow sports gear is way over priced.... IMO... 

Yeah! Absolutely! I don't believe they would take a loss... so they still manage to get some money selling stuff for 40% of the price!

post #20 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smartyiak View Post

Is there any reason why vendors aren't allowed to sell for the same price on the web? Why don't they allow vendors to discount to the web price and then do whatever to make it whole.  ...or do they allow it?

 

I found something at a local store that is on the web for 60% off. The retailer (understandably) looked miffed when I mentioned the 60% off. I want to buy from my local vendor...but $100 is alot of coin.  I ended up buying it off the web.

 

If the local store would have offered it at even 50% off, I would have bought it from them...but it was just too much a price difference.


Probably because the local store is losing money at that price.  They would rather send it back and get their money back.

post #21 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgcatching View Post


Probably because the local store is losing money at that price.  They would rather send it back and get their money back.

That's when Patagonia should compensate them for the loss, give some compensation on either next year purchase or giving them money back to allow the discount, so it doesn't hurt too much! Since they allow them to send it back why don't have a compensation policy when sale starts?

post #22 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by mfa81 View Post

That's when Patagonia should compensate them for the loss, give some compensation on either next year purchase or giving them money back to allow the discount, so it doesn't hurt too much! Since they allow them to send it back why don't have a compensation policy when sale starts?

Yep. That's what I meant by "and then do whatever to make it whole."

 

It just seems weird that they'll allow me to buy it straight from them at the discount...but don't not want to benefit their vendors. I can't blame places like Start Haus from dumping them when customers can get items from them cheaper than the local vendor.

post #23 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smartyiak View Post

Yep. That's what I meant by "and then do whatever to make it whole."

 

It just seems weird that they'll allow me to buy it straight from them at the discount...but don't not want to benefit their vendors. I can't blame places like Start Haus from dumping them when customers can get items from them cheaper than the local vendor.

 

We happen to like PG as a brand and the stuff that we buy from them fits well enough. However, PG is such a huge brand that they seem to have little concern for their smaller dealers. REI is one thing but StartHaus for sure is something else. We sell 10X as much volume in skis alone as we do in outerwear. Because we cannot afford the luxury of competing against the supplier for the small amount of clothing business we do, the PG brand is just no longer a fit for us.

 

SJ

post #24 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by SierraJim View Post

 

We happen to like PG as a brand and the stuff that we buy from them fits well enough. However, PG is such a huge brand that they seem to have little concern for their smaller dealers. REI is one thing but StartHaus for sure is something else. We sell 10X as much volume in skis alone as we do in outerwear. Because we cannot afford the luxury of competing against the supplier for the small amount of clothing business we do, the PG brand is just no longer a fit for us.

 

SJ


It has to be tough as well for you guys, with the outlet just down the road in Reno. 

post #25 of 29

Just to be clear, I'm not bashing the product at all. I own a bunch of their gear and love most of it. My favorite piece of gear I've ever purchased is the down sweater I bought 4yrs ago; when it needs to be replaced, more than likely, I'll get another.

post #26 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by WC68 View Post

I checked out the sale, but most things size L seemed to go very quickly. Can't really see it being that detrimental to retailers.

 

That's what I found out as well.  And this was only the full winter stuff, which they probably need to move for inventory.

post #27 of 29

Possibly somewhat off-topic, but something worth considering when thinking about buying Patagonia gear: Yvon Chouinard recognized for business ethics and integrity:

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2013/02/yvon_chouinard_patagonia_found.html

 

To me, that's worth a little money out of my pocket.  

post #28 of 29
I agree with all of the above, Patagonia's sale is ridiculous discounts, but it's almost March so winter is over. They can't sell ski jackets in the spring, certainly not at full price. Just stopped in their store in DC, and the spring stuff is already out in full force. In regards to the fit, I think it has morphed into a horrible template. Not slim or athletic at all anymore... Time was XL was all I needed, now I'm swimming in most XL's but binding in L's... It's rare that something fits great from them.
post #29 of 29

I buy a lot of Patagonia stuff not only because the quality is good, but primarily because I am a rather narrow person.  Other people may wonder about the weird fit, but I'm that guy for whom their fit is perfect.  I've got a shirt I bought 15 years ago that I still wear regularly.  It's a favorite.  

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