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Hip Blocking. Anyone got a good way to explain this to me.

post #1 of 9
Thread Starter 

To all instructors,


I have been playing around with my angulation and looking for some good info or explanations on Hip Blocking.

What is it? How is it created? How to fix it with students? easy ways to fix with feelings, drills?

 

Thanks,

Fs^^

post #2 of 9

Can you say more about hip blocking?  Are you working with people who do it?  What do you see in their movements that you are calling hip blocking?  What are the results as the skis move on the snow?  

 

How does it differ from hip dumping?  Hip dumping is allowing the hips to drop down and back at the end of the turn, resulting in the COM getting way back uphill.  Hip dumping may result from a skier wanting to look like a World Cup skier getting around a gate with high edge angles, hip near the snow.  

 

Doing it for cosmetic reasons is dysfunctional.  Those hips then need to be hucked over the skis to start the new turn.  

post #3 of 9

"hip blocking" is not a commonly used term in ski instruction - make up your own definition

 

Try making turns where you advance your new inside hip forward (shoulders facing the outside of the new turn). This is the opposite of common advice. I love this drill because, weird as it is, it actually helps some skiers make better turns. I also hate this drill because it teaches something that needs to be unlearned. It's a good "guided discovery" exercise for the curious because even though it is an inefficient move, it can work in limited circumstances.

 

The classic references to hip blocking refer to a down stem to start a turn as part of an Arlberg turn. Using that move to start a windup for an extreme shoulder rotation (that is the classic piece of the Arlberg), the downhill leg supports the hip in a position that blocks movement of the center of mass to the inside of the new turn. In the Arlberg turn, the hip gets unblocked by the massive upper body rotation that drives unwinding of the lower body.

 

http://www.alpenglow.org/ski-history/notes/period/asa/esa-1958.html

post #4 of 9
Thread Starter 

Thanks for the comments and explanation Rusty. It is something I have been playing with in my skiing. I think I was doing this on one side of my turns due to not re-centering properly in ph 1

 I like the comment on moving the inside hip forward into the new turn. 

post #5 of 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRusty View Post

"hip blocking" is not a commonly used term in ski instruction - make up your own definition

 

Try making turns where you advance your new inside hip forward (shoulders facing the outside of the new turn). This is the opposite of common advice. I love this drill because, weird as it is, it actually helps some skiers make better turns. I also hate this drill because it teaches something that needs to be unlearned. It's a good "guided discovery" exercise for the curious because even though it is an inefficient move, it can work in limited circumstances.

 

The classic references to hip blocking refer to a down stem to start a turn as part of an Arlberg turn. Using that move to start a windup for an extreme shoulder rotation (that is the classic piece of the Arlberg), the downhill leg supports the hip in a position that blocks movement of the center of mass to the inside of the new turn. In the Arlberg turn, the hip gets unblocked by the massive upper body rotation that drives unwinding of the lower body.

 

http://www.alpenglow.org/ski-history/notes/period/asa/esa-1958.html

 

 

I think in some case the thought of moving our inside hip forward just creates more counter. IMO way to many skeir do not actively level their hips/counter against their skis enough.  its extremely hard to actually go past useable counter rotation.

 

In perfect world all of tipping/rotation comes from the hip joint as the legs move freely underneath of us, but in the real world actively resisting the turning force makes a pretty big difference.


Edited by Josh Matta - 3/25/13 at 3:03pm
post #6 of 9

Josh,

 

I was talking about advancing the new inside hip (as opposed to the inside hip). I agree that the more that the inside hip is ahead at the end of a turn the more counter we tend to have entering the new turn.

 

Semantics is a tough thing. For this reason I'm trying to get away from using the term "counter rotation" because we are trying to "steer into a countered position" (lower body turning more than the upper body) as opposed to making a rotating movement to achieve a countered position. You and I know we are talking about the same thing. Others might not.

 

I would not agree that all tipping comes from the hip joint in a perfect world, but my disagreement is a small difference and off topic.

post #7 of 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Matta View Post

 

 

I think in some case the thought of moving our inside hip forward just creates more counter. IMO way to many skeir do not actively level their hips/counter against their skis enough.  its extremely hard to actually go past useable counter rotation.

 

In perfect world all of tipping/rotation comes from the hip joint as the legs move freely underneath of us, but in the real world actively resisting the turning force makes a pretty big difference.

 

Leveling the hips and counter are two different things, right?

post #8 of 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by hellside View Post

 

Leveling the hips and counter are two different things, right?

 

yes they are but in my mind, and how I pull off the move I think of raising the inside hip and pushing it forward  in every turn IE i am doing both at the same time.

 

you can see here that I honestly may have over done it this move in this turn, but it did let me start beginning carving strongly in the upper part of the turn on skis that most people epic would say can not carve at all. 113 underfoot Nordica Patrons.

 

 

as you move from the shaping phase to the finishing phase holding and resisting the force of the turn though a strong leveling and counter of the hips will let you finish the turn stronger than just passively let your hips fall where they may fall. You can see my hips are nearly level here despite the large edge angle. This takes a ton of strength/flexability to actually pull off not to mention edging fast enough to get the angles, but not so fast that we are not balanced on our outside ski.

 

post #9 of 9

Actually, the Patron arcs very very well rolled up like you've done in your picts, Josh. Don't count me among those who say it can't be done. smile.gif  I'm not sure it takes a ton of strength (basic core strength and flexibility are a given though) as much as it an accurate and active blending of skills. Creating large angles really depends on opening up the hips to access one's full range of mobility between the upper and lower body. Interesting how the hips now seem to be on track to becoming the new topic du jour in PSIA tech discussions... long overdue IMHO. 

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