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East Coaster, All Mountain Freeride vs. All Mountain Carver (80, 90, or 100mm underfoot). Please help with my Dilemma - Page 2

post #31 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by boogiewith View Post

Was on the Prophet 98's this afternoon, really liked them too. Didn't hold an edge as well as the Kendos, but still pretty good. Loved the tail on them. They were awesome in the trees and the bumps. If I went with the Prophets, I'd probably go with the 90's. any thoughts on the difference between the 98's and 90's? I wish I could combine the Prophets and the Kendos, but...

Decisions decisions decisions.........

You might be able to. . . . if not the P90, does the shop have the E88 or the Steadfast or the Rocker2 90? Maybe the Bushwacker or the Brahma (if you are willing to wait until next fall).  Those are all ~88 choices that you might enjoy as much or more than the Kendo.  I've never personally ridden the P90 - a friend does - so I can't comment on the stability or fun factor relative to the 98.  My friend loves them, but he is a solid intermediate in the west - not a comparable to your self-description.  But he loved the P90 on a series of pretty firm and icy days we had last month, if that helps.  Fwiw, I'll probably give his P90s a try in the next couple of weeks for fun and education.

 

Boogie, I think that you are on the right track and you are giving good feedback.  You want something with solid grip as like the Kendo but a bit more playful, looser with more snap (like you felt with the P98).  See what the shop gives you next - or pay close attention to advice from a pro like Whiteroom.  He's an industry pro, based in the east with no axe to grind.  Now that you have personal impressions from a few demos, I bet that he could recommend something that will be pretty close to the mark.

 

I do agree that if your goal is to replace your old sollies with something more fun in more conditions, you are right to focus on the 85-90 slot.  The P98 is a cool ski, worthy in a wide band of conditions, but not necessarily optimized for the firmer side of eastern conditions.  I agree with others that the most versatile choice as a OSQ for an eastie and you'd still have your big GS boards for groomer-only days (but I bet you'd never use them again if you choose right in the ~88 class).  And something ~88 would migrate just fine to all-mountain skiing out west or into the occasional eastern powder day at a place like Jay.  You wouldn't be giving up that much over the P98 until the snow got to 6-8" of new or so and the ~88 would probably be more fun more of the time back east - especially if you hit up groomers 50% of the time.  And if you were blessed with a foot+, plunk down $50 for the day and demo. 

 

Have fun demo'ing.

post #32 of 50
Thread Starter 
Back from Jay, had an awesome time, great mountain! Here's where I'm at.

I wasn't able to demo any bulls (Bushwacker or Bonafide), but spoke to a couple of people on the lifts that were on Bushwackers. Their feed ack was that they are great in the trees and soft stuff, but were not good on hard conditions or ice, and one guy said they weren't the best in the bumps (which I was surprised to hear). I really wish I was able to try a good flipcore from Blizzard, but it wasn't in the cards I guess. I think the Bushwackers should be taken off the list (unless I get strong arguments for them).

I got to try my friend's Atomic Blackeye Ti's. I'm surprised there isn't more talk about Atomic. I thought they were very good. They were stiff, great on the hard stuff, and pretty good in the trees and bumps. The last part may have been because they were 174's, which is probably on the shorter side for me. They had a decent tail which probably helped in the trees and bumps. I'm not sure they are right for me, probably a little stiff for me. My friend is similar night to me (6 feet), but weighs more (he's 195, I'm 170lbs.).

I also didn't get to try the Rossi's Experience, but again, unless someone feels very strongly that they'd be perfect, I'm hesitant on them. I keep hearing that they're very "turny", and I'm not sure I want a ski that's going to lock me into a certain type of turn.

I didn't get to try the Dynastar Cham's, and the few people I spoke with loved and raved about them, but without demoing them, I'm very hesitant to make that leap. They seem like such a different and unique design. Same with DPS. I also didn't get on the Outlands, but...

So ultimately it looks like I'm down to the Kendos and Prophets (90 or 98). One guy I spoke with said to go with the P98's, but I'm a little hesitant to go that wide for my one ski quiver in the north east. I did get to demo that actual size and really liked it. I'm wondering how different that performs on the harder stuff compared to the P90's? And in terms of the Kendos, I thought they were really good on the harder stuff, but how will they do in the tighter situations (trees, bumps)? Do you think I'll be unhappy with the tails on the Kendos compared to the Prophets, or is it worth sacrificing the tail for the better hard stuff (ice) performance? And this doesn't figure into the decision, but I have to admit that the graphics on the Kendos are pretty badass, sweet dragon, ha.

Thanks as always for any input, and for all of your help with this. This site is awesome, which is of course due to the people who contribute.
post #33 of 50
Thread Starter 
Back from Jay, had an awesome time, great mountain! Here's where I'm at.

I wasn't able to demo any bulls (Bushwacker or Bonafide), but spoke to a couple of people on the lifts that were on Bushwackers. Their feed ack was that they are great in the trees and soft stuff, but were not good on hard conditions or ice, and one guy said they weren't the best in the bumps (which I was surprised to hear). I really wish I was able to try a good flipcore from Blizzard, but it wasn't in the cards I guess. I think the Bushwackers should be taken off the list (unless I get strong arguments for them).

I got to try my friend's Atomic Blackeye Ti's. I'm surprised there isn't more talk about Atomic. I thought they were very good. They were stiff, great on the hard stuff, and pretty good in the trees and bumps. The last part may have been because they were 174's, which is probably on the shorter side for me. They had a decent tail which probably helped in the trees and bumps. I'm not sure they are right for me, probably a little stiff for me. My friend is similar night to me (6 feet), but weighs more (he's 195, I'm 170lbs.).

I also didn't get to try the Rossi's Experience, but again, unless someone feels very strongly that they'd be perfect, I'm hesitant on them. I keep hearing that they're very "turny", and I'm not sure I want a ski that's going to lock me into a certain type of turn.

I didn't get to try the Dynastar Cham's, and the few people I spoke with loved and raved about them, but without demoing them, I'm very hesitant to make that leap. They seem like such a different and unique design. Same with DPS. I also didn't get on the Outlands, but...

So ultimately it looks like I'm down to the Kendos and Prophets (90 or 98). One guy I spoke with said to go with the P98's, but I'm a little hesitant to go that wide for my one ski quiver in the north east. I did get to demo that actual size and really liked it. I'm wondering how different that performs on the harder stuff compared to the P90's? And in terms of the Kendos, I thought they were really good on the harder stuff, but how will they do in the tighter situations (trees, bumps)? Do you think I'll be unhappy with the tails on the Kendos compared to the Prophets, or is it worth sacrificing the tail for the better hard stuff (ice) performance? And this doesn't figure into the decision, but I have to admit that the graphics on the Kendos are pretty badass, sweet dragon, ha.

Thanks as always for any input, and for all of your help with this. This site is awesome, which is of course due to the people who contribute.
post #34 of 50

Considering you don't really ski anything deeper than 6", there's no reason to go with the 98s over the 90s. And, honestly, the 90s makes a better western travel ski than the 98s.

 

You can just rent a real powder ski if you get lucky and happen to hit it right on the money with a large storm - you'd likely much prefer that over the 98s, anyway. The 90s will likely have better edge grip than the 98s. The wider the ski, the more work it is to put one on edge and put the forces directly into the edge. It probably won't rival the Kendo, however.

 

Did you not get a chance to try the Kendo in the bumps/trees?

post #35 of 50
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Lindahl View Post

Considering you don't really ski anything deeper than 6", there's no reason to go with the 98s over the 90s. And, honestly, the 90s makes a better western travel ski than the 98s.

 

You can just rent a real powder ski if you get lucky and happen to hit it right on the money with a large storm - you'd likely much prefer that over the 98s, anyway. The 90s will likely have better edge grip than the 98s. The wider the ski, the more work it is to put one on edge and put the forces directly into the edge. It probably won't rival the Kendo, however.

 

Did you not get a chance to try the Kendo in the bumps/trees?

Yes, took the Kendos in the trees and bumps.  They were fine there, but not as good as the Prophet 98's IMO.  The tail of the Prophets was not as stiff as the Kendos which is the main reason I really liked the Prophets, and am leaning that way.  My one main concern going with the Prophets is how they will handle the hard/icy stuff.  The Kendos were good on the hard/icy stuff.  It was that super windy, cold day though, and it got worse as the day went on, the wind blew everything off the mountain, excepts in the trees.  I had the Kendos earlier in the am, and they handled the hard icy pretty well.  By the end of the day when I was on the Prophets, things got worse, and on one trail (Can Am), it was so icy you could see the clear ice, and practicall everyone was sliding down the hill.  The Prophets were ok, but not great, but I'm not sure if it was completely the ski's fault, or the Kendos would have been similar.  I don't think any ski could have held that ice, but...

post #36 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Lindahl View Post

Considering you don't really ski anything deeper than 6", there's no reason to go with the 98s over the 90s. And, honestly, the 90s makes a better western travel ski than the 98s.

 

The wider the ski, the more work it is to put one on edge and put the forces directly into the edge. It probably won't rival the Kendo, however.

 


Just curious what makes you say a 90mm is better for western travel than a 98mm?  Not arguing, just wondering the rationale.  I was under the impression that a 98mm-ish would generally be better all around, provided it's a versatile enough ski (ie-Bonafide).

 

As for the width, I demo'd a couple 98mm skis for the first time a couple weeks ago in VT, and while they're not as quick edge to edge as my slalom (67mm) or GS (75mm) skis, I didn't find them to be a problem on the groomers at all.  Didn't need high edge angles to carve either; in fact I found them rather stable and good on the hardpack (no ice)  Certainly not in the same league as SL/GS skis, but still very good nonetheless.

post #37 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunnerbob View Post


Just curious what makes you say a 90mm is better for western travel than a 98mm?  Not arguing, just wondering the rationale.  I was under the impression that a 98mm-ish would generally be better all around, provided it's a versatile enough ski (ie-Bonafide).

 

I was commenting specifically on the Prophet 98 and Prophet 90. The 98 really doesn't do anything better than the 90 in shallow snow (which you'll most often have on a trip). If you get some deep snow (10"+), the 98 isn't that great of a powder ski. It's marginally better than the 90 - I'd be surprised if you even noticed the difference. If you get that lucky, you'd be much better off renting/demoing a real powder ski.

post #38 of 50
Thread Starter 
Anyone have any thoughts on how the Blizzard Brahma would figure into this?
post #39 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Lindahl View Post

 

I was commenting specifically on the Prophet 98 and Prophet 90. The 98 really doesn't do anything better than the 90 in shallow snow (which you'll most often have on a trip). If you get some deep snow (10"+), the 98 isn't that great of a powder ski. It's marginally better than the 90 - I'd be surprised if you even noticed the difference. If you get that lucky, you'd be much better off renting/demoing a real powder ski.


Gotcha.  Good to know, thanks.

post #40 of 50

P98's are quicker and less stiff.  P90's are a little stiffer, less quick, but more stable and better on groomers.  

post #41 of 50
Thread Starter 
I'm a little confused that you say the 98's are quicker than the 90's. How is that? I thought the narrower skis would be quicker?
post #42 of 50

Sorry if I was unclear.  The 98's are turnier, more suited for quicker turns, not meant to arc GS turns at mach speed.  The 90's aren't meant to do that either, but they are more stable, a little less quick and turny.  At least that's what the rep told me. 

post #43 of 50
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by eastskier44 View Post

Sorry if I was unclear.  The 98's are turnier, more suited for quicker turns, not meant to arc GS turns at mach speed.  The 90's aren't meant to do that either, but they are more stable, a little less quick and turny.  At least that's what the rep told me. 

That sounds backwards to me. Shouldn't the narrower waisted ski be "turnier" and "quicker"? Hmmmmm
post #44 of 50

Width is actually pretty low on the list in terms of what determines turniness.  Other factors are a lot more important.  And the 90 is built to be a bit burlier of a ski (still not super burly, but relatively speaking), while the 98 is built to be on the lighter side for a ski of its size, a little quicker, less burly and less stable than the 90.  In other words, the 98 is built to be a little more playful than the 90.  A GS race ski might be the same width underfoot as a SL race ski, but the SL race ski will no doubt be much turnier than the GS ski.  

post #45 of 50
Thread Starter 

From further research, reading, and a discussion with a guy at a local ski shop that carries Volkl and Blizzard, it seems like the Blizzard Brahma may be the solution.  A Bushwacker with metal.  A Kendo with a softer tail.  Of course that means waiting another season to try and then ultimately pull the trigger.  Not sure I can wait that long, ha! 

 

Thoughts???

post #46 of 50
Thread Starter 

Talked to some other "experts", and one of them suggested the Line Influence 105's.  I'm not sure if it was because he really thought they'd be right for me, or because they were all sold out of the Prophets (both 90 & 98).  Thoughts?

 

Another guy said I should go for something in the 98 range instead of 90.  He said they carve better.  He did admit that if I was going to spend the majority of my time on trail on groomers, then I should go down to something in the 80 range.  I'm getting more confused the more people I speak with.  Aaaarrrggghhhhh!

post #47 of 50
Thread Starter 
Bump
post #48 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by boogiewith View Post

Talked to some other "experts", and one of them suggested the Line Influence 105's.  I'm not sure if it was because he really thought they'd be right for me, or because they were all sold out of the Prophets (both 90 & 98).  Thoughts?

That "expert" either wasn't listening, has the Influence 105 on close out, or you changed your story:

 

Quote:

I am certainly no expert, but consider myself advanced, and enjoy pretty much everything on the mountain, and feel comfortable on any slope (others have said I look pretty good doing it, but…). In terms of where I spend my time on the mountain, 50% frontside on piste (spend most of that time on the side of the trail trying to find any powdery snow I can), 20% trees (would like to spend more time there, but have never felt that comfortable with the big stiff boards I have now), 20% bumps (similar to trees, but of less interest), and 10% backcountry (hiking within the resort mostly). I enjoy all turn radii, it really depends on the trail, mountain, conditions, etc. I would describe myself as enjoying medium speed. I enjoy making turns, and don’t just charge down the mountain at full speed. There will be no jumps, cliffs, or park for this old guy! One thing I am concerned about is being honest with myself

 

The Influence is way too much ski for the skier described above.  It is a damp, big mountain charger that performs at high speed. 

 

There is good advice in this thread that you probably want something in the ~90 range.  And you have your own demo feedback (Kendo good on groomers but too firm; P98 liked a lot - want something narrower).  Not sure why you wouldn't just pick up the P90s.  Similar shape as the 98 which you liked, but more narrow.  It also has metal (metal matrix under the top sheet like the 98), but most reports is that it is less stiff than a Kendo (I haven't ridden it so I can't confirm) - and that is what you are asking for. . . a P98, narrower, with some metal but less stiff than the Kendo.  Why wait around to pay full price for a Brahma which you may not like better when you can get the P90 now for 40% off MSRP.

 

Quote:

I'm getting more confused the more people I speak with. Aaaarrrggghhhhh!

 

This is where you need to pick someone you trust - preferably yourself - and make a call.  If you are truly being honest with yourself, the only thing holding you back from a P90 is a theoretical belief that they will be too soft - but you have found in both your demos and past experience that you might favor a softer ski.  A ski is only "too soft" if it doesn't hold up to your style and weight.  You can still be an "advanced" or "expert" skier and ride a forgiving, high energy ski.  It is OK. 

 

Pick up the P90.  You have enough demo information - you loved the 98, but think that it is probably too wide for every day use out east.  You demo'd it at Jay - you can make that call either way.  You liked the Kendo but want something more forgiving to make trees and bumps more fun.  The P90 will do fine in most envionments and will be great on your one trip a year out west.  You are already compromising pure, groomer performance with anything in this class.  But the compromise isn't that significant a trade for a ski that will be better everywhere else and make you a way better skier.  You might even be less inclined to ski bumps, if you ride something a little more compliant.

 

Honestly, it is hard to go wrong here.  Any of the ~90 class skis will represent a significant upgrade for all mountain skiing and you'll be delighted with any of them.

post #49 of 50

Agreed. Get the P90. You might like the Nordica Steadfast too, if you can find one to demo. The Influence 105 is too much, as already mentioned. The Brahma - why wait? I'd bet that the Brahma won't carve like you want it to, considering you liked the P90 so much.

post #50 of 50
Thread Starter 

So I demoed the LP 90's this past Saturday. They were awesome!  Handled everything on the mountain.  It was spring conditions, a mixture of mush, slush, ice, and patches of snow, with bumps formed all over the mountain by the afternoon (north east).  The Prophets were great, they stayed above the junk, handled the ice well (better than I expected, and I was doing my best to try to have them slide to see what they would do), and were a joy in the bumps (which I am not a huge fan of normally). I was able to carve short radius turns, or open them up for longer ones, was not locked into a specific radius at all.  I wasn't able to get them in the tress, but I'm sure they'll be great there too.  I liked them so much I bought a pair in 179 length.  I had them mount Head Mojo 12 bindings on them (they only charged me $100 for them because they were those hiddeous ones with the loud bright neon colors, which of course my kids thought were sweet).  I also picked up a new pair of boots, went with the Technica Cochise 110's, which fit me like a glove.  Super psyched. Headed to Sugarloaf for a four day guy's trip this weekend.  Thanks to everyone for their help and input through this process, this site rocks! 

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EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Ski Gear Discussion › East Coaster, All Mountain Freeride vs. All Mountain Carver (80, 90, or 100mm underfoot). Please help with my Dilemma