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Carving skills hip position and skidding in the turn

post #1 of 16
Thread Starter 

Hello,

 

I have been trying to help my gf improve her turns, she knows her biggest problem is getting back and inside in turns.

 

We went out training yesterday and we did some wedges on the bunny hill, I made her do a couple of runs way to far forward, my logic being that its easier to correct yourself when you know how far away "to far forward" is. Something else we worked on was steering the ski into the turn, she has a habit of skidding out the back of her ski at the start of a turn. We worked on this out on well groomed blue, doing parallels, and the tracks left in the snow looked better and the skid is gone.

 

Looking at all of the video we have of her skiing, when she is back and inside she looks like she is "along for the ride", we worked more on driving the skiis rather than just standing on them! This seems to have made her turns more consistent and her body position looks better. The result of this is that her outside ski is slightly further forward during the first stage of the turn, this means as her CG moves to the inside the position of her hips encourages her to stay in balance.

 

Questions:

  • Should I be encouraging her to steer into the turn to eliminate the skid? 
  • Is this a good body position?
post #2 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by set321go View Post

Hello,

 

I have been trying to help my gf improve her turns, she knows her biggest problem is getting back and inside in turns.

 

We went out training yesterday and we did some wedges on the bunny hill, I made her do a couple of runs way to far forward, my logic being that its easier to correct yourself when you know how far away "to far forward" is. Something else we worked on was steering the ski into the turn, she has a habit of skidding out the back of her ski at the start of a turn. We worked on this out on well groomed blue, doing parallels, and the tracks left in the snow looked better and the skid is gone.

 

Looking at all of the video we have of her skiing, when she is back and inside she looks like she is "along for the ride", we worked more on driving the skiis rather than just standing on them! This seems to have made her turns more consistent and her body position looks better. The result of this is that her outside ski is slightly further forward during the first stage of the turn, this means as her CG moves to the inside the position of her hips encourages her to stay in balance.

 

Questions:

  • Should I be encouraging her to steer into the turn to eliminate the skid? 
  • Is this a good body position?

  Can you post the video you mentioned? It would be helpful...I (and many others) are reluctant to answer in detail w/o video...

 

     zenny

post #3 of 16
Thread Starter 

There is much video footage but we dont have all of it

 

This is where we started some weeks ago:

http://www.epicski.com/t/115777/fixing-bad-habits-inside-ski#post_1524578

 

we have since sorted out the boots.

 

Here are some bumps from the other week

post #4 of 16

   Hmmm...won't play. Says "this video is private"...

 

      zenny

post #5 of 16
Thread Starter 

sorry! should be able to see it now

post #6 of 16

You're either brave or crazy to try and teach your girlfriend. I hope it works out! (I'd actually suggest putting her in lessons with someone neither of you know. Lessons from a pro may cost more upfront, but are generally cheaper than counselling and court fees down the road.)

 

You did notice she's falling inside/back. You'll also notice she's traversing more and more in the runs, probably as she gets nervous with her speed buildup. There's a chicken-and-egg situation here: once we're balancing on the outside ski, it's easier to steer and link turns. Once you're linking turns, your body's momentum downhill makes it easier to steer both skis and balance on the outside ski. The converse is if you're inside and back, it's really hard to drive into the next turn and steer the skis. Traversing, which is often another fear reaction, eliminates your momentum downhill and makes bumps much more difficult.

 

As a person not dating her, I would take her to mellower bumps to develop stance/balance, and steering skills with these exercises: 

 

Ski the bumps pretending you're moving down a tunnel that's 1' shorter than you, with spikes lining the top of the tunnel. You can extend into the troughs, but you really need to flex (both legs) as you reach the tops of the bumps. And since it's a tunnel, you need to keep turning. 

 

Work on hop turns in bumps - immediate feedback on stance, and will encourage more turning of the skis (in the air). Start the hop turn off the top of the bump. Use a firm pole plant to set up the turn. Both skis should leave the snow. Use this exercise as a feedback mechanism, and blend back into turns. 

 

After planting the pole, drive that planting hand over the outside ski tip throughout the rest of the turn (think of attacking snow trolls: poke them in the toes, then punch them in the nose). Encourage her to plant the pole way down the back of the bump--rather than right near her binding. 

 

Gradually blend these exercises back into skiing the steeper bump runs. 

 

Good luck with your girlfriend! I hope your relationship and skiing can survive this teaching adventure ;)

post #7 of 16
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metaphor_ View Post

You're either brave or crazy to try and teach your girlfriend. I hope it works out! (I'd actually suggest putting her in lessons with someone neither of you know. Lessons from a pro may cost more upfront, but are generally cheaper than counselling and court fees down the road.)

 

You did notice she's falling inside/back. You'll also notice she's traversing more and more in the runs, probably as she gets nervous with her speed buildup. There's a chicken-and-egg situation here: once we're balancing on the outside ski, it's easier to steer and link turns. Once you're linking turns, your body's momentum downhill makes it easier to steer both skis and balance on the outside ski. The converse is if you're inside and back, it's really hard to drive into the next turn and steer the skis. Traversing, which is often another fear reaction, eliminates your momentum downhill and makes bumps much more difficult.

 

As a person not dating her, I would take her to mellower bumps to develop stance/balance, and steering skills with these exercises: 

 

Ski the bumps pretending you're moving down a tunnel that's 1' shorter than you, with spikes lining the top of the tunnel. You can extend into the troughs, but you really need to flex (both legs) as you reach the tops of the bumps. And since it's a tunnel, you need to keep turning. 

 

Work on hop turns in bumps - immediate feedback on stance, and will encourage more turning of the skis (in the air). Start the hop turn off the top of the bump. Use a firm pole plant to set up the turn. Both skis should leave the snow. Use this exercise as a feedback mechanism, and blend back into turns. 

 

After planting the pole, drive that planting hand over the outside ski tip throughout the rest of the turn (think of attacking snow trolls: poke them in the toes, then punch them in the nose). Encourage her to plant the pole way down the back of the bump--rather than right near her binding. 

 

Gradually blend these exercises back into skiing the steeper bump runs. 

 

Good luck with your girlfriend! I hope your relationship and skiing can survive this teaching adventure ;)

 

thanks,

 

She is having coaching but we can't do that every night. 

 

She is a better skier than I am, so I wouldn't say I am teaching her its more feedback, she tells me what she is trying to achieve and I tell her what she is doing, it works better than video because we can dissect each run and how it felt to the previous etc. With video analysis its generally retrospective because you dont have the equipment on hand, its good for comparison and viewing progress over a longer timeframe though.

 

I will show her that exercise and see what she thinks, she is having a poles lesson tonight (not by me!).

post #8 of 16
Quote:

 

Questions:

  • Should I be encouraging her to steer into the turn to eliminate the skid? 
  • Is this a good body position?

No. You should tell her that her body position looks fantastic!

 

Friends don't let friends teach SO's. With the caveat understood that she is a better skier and thus by definition knows better, you can agree to provide her feedback on what you see, but limit it to observation and not judgment or advice. Some couples can teach each other. Most can't.

 

Those ski pants may or may not make you look fat. No dear, I'm not going to tell you, no matter how much you tell me I can be honest. Because it's a no win scenario.

post #9 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRusty View Post

 

 

Those ski pants may or may not make you look fat. No dear, I'm not going to tell you, no matter how much you tell me I can be honest. Because it's a no win scenario.

You are a wise man Rusty :-D

post #10 of 16
Let her look at the videos and let her evaluate them. Keep telling her she's a better skier and it shows!!!
post #11 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by set321go View Post

She is a better skier than I am, so I wouldn't say I am teaching her its more feedback, she tells me what she is trying to achieve and I tell her what she is doing, it works better than video because we can dissect each run and how it felt to the previous etc. 

 

Yikes. It's challenging to coach your SO. It's just downright unpleasant when your SO, who performs worse than you (or even comparably), gives you coaching. 

post #12 of 16
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metaphor_ View Post

 

Yikes. It's challenging to coach your SO. It's just downright unpleasant when your SO, who performs worse than you (or even comparably), gives you coaching. 

How kind of you to consider my performance as comparable! I would have put it somewhere down by "less than adequate"

post #13 of 16

She looks pretty good!  I think she needs to move her CM forward to establish her turning platform.  From what I see, she's basically steering her feet around at the top of the bumps.  Not bad, but if she can move forward and extend down the back of the bumps, then I think she keeps more ski snow contact and looks more fluid.

post #14 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by set321go View Post

 

Questions:

  • Should I be encouraging her to steer into the turn to eliminate the skid? 
  • Is this a good body position?

 

First ignore the advice to not teach your partner.  While this doesnt work for some...it works great for alot of others.  Good teachers will have no problem teaching friends and family. The key to remember is you are skiing with them...they are not skiing with you.  This may sound like semantics...but it is actually a crucial and critical distinction.

 

 

To your questions.

 

  • No.
  • No.  She needs to extend more in the ankles/knees/hips before starting the turn to get her hips over her feet...then be patient and establish a balanced position over the outside ski....as she flexes she needs to focus more on getting the ankles flexing, particularily the outside one....the knees and hips are doing all the work at the moment.

 

 

Play with this idea on the groomed...delay turns are perfect to slow the top of the turn down and give the skier time to extend the joints, and establish that balanced postiion over the outside ski before progressing the turn.

 

Good luck.

post #15 of 16
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skidude72 View Post

 

First ignore the advice to not teach your partner.  While this doesnt work for some...it works great for alot of others.  Good teachers will have no problem teaching friends and family. The key to remember is you are skiing with them...they are not skiing with you.  This may sound like semantics...but it is actually a crucial and critical distinction.

 

 

To your questions.

 

  • No.
  • No.  She needs to extend more in the ankles/knees/hips before starting the turn to get her hips over her feet...then be patient and establish a balanced position over the outside ski....as she flexes she needs to focus more on getting the ankles flexing, particularily the outside one....the knees and hips are doing all the work at the moment.

 

 

Play with this idea on the groomed...delay turns are perfect to slow the top of the turn down and give the skier time to extend the joints, and establish that balanced postiion over the outside ski before progressing the turn.

 

Good luck.

 

 

Delay turns? Could you explain?

post #16 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by set321go View Post

 

 

Delay turns? Could you explain?


Basically you just stretch out the transition and say first 1/4 of the turn...ie take more time to do it.....you are just giving yourself more time to feel new things and do new moves....so ineffect you are "delaying" the rest of the turn.  Then as you get it...reduce the "delay" more and more until it is nearly gone.


Edited by Skidude72 - 2/13/13 at 1:53pm
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