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.....What-If Kneebindings? - Page 30  

post #871 of 898
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Howell View Post
 

 What you read from that attorney is false, just like his many posts here on Epic that have attempted to trick all of you for some time. 

 

So Howell is now saying that Peter G. Anderson, Knee Bindings attorney who sent the warning letter, is posting on EpicSki forums.  This is getting wackier by the minute.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tog View Post
 

There's been disparagement of kneebindings from the get go.

 
The issue was and is Mr. Howell's voluminous disparaging remarks about Knee Bindings combined with his promotion of a proposed competitive product.   A surgeon posts of his experience with Knee Bindings…and Shazamm….here's Howell posting his various manifestos AGAIN, attacking Knee Binding AGAIN, promoting his as yet fictional competitive products AGAIN.  And then we have his Greek chorus then bemoaning the "revival" of all that hoo haa when they and Howell are what they are complaining about with thread hijacking and boring repetitive gibberish.
 
All the surgeon wanted to do was talk about Knee Bindings.
post #872 of 898
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteroom View Post
 

I know multiple people who 'care about bindings' who ski Kneebindings and love them. What the f**k are you talking about? 2 or 3 prolific posters on epicski? You think that is representative of the vast number of people who actually ski and care about ski gear? If so you are sorely mistaken. Plenty of folks who 'care' wouldn't be able to tolerate the vast wasteland of stupidity that is any 'ski forum'.


Would have been nice, Whiteroom, if, when you came over to my outside lab here on my deck when I demonstrated engineering to you while you enjoyed 2 of my nice beers that you had told me that you were actually on the side of the hijackers.   You owe me 2 beers.   :)


Edited by Richard Howell - 1/22/14 at 6:08pm
post #873 of 898
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Howell View Post
 


Would have been nice, Whiteroom, if, when you came over to my outside lab here on my deck when I demonstrated engineering to you while you enjoyed 2 of my nice beers that you had told me that you were actually on the side of the hijackers.   You owe me 2 beers.

I'm not on ANYONES side. I like you Rick, I like the technology you have/ are developing and would love to see it developed further. That's it. I honestly feel that this 'thread' is detrimental to that, I think this will end poorly for everyone and the sport of skiing will be worse because of it.

post #874 of 898
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteroom View Post
 

I'm not on ANYONES side. I like you Rick, I like the technology you have/ are developing and would love to see it developed further. That's it. I honestly feel that this 'thread' is detrimental to that, I think this will end poorly for everyone and the sport of skiing will be worse because of it.


@Whiteroom    I'm planning on winning this litigation — which will help the entire ski industry:  will you provide 2 (good) beers when that happens?  :) 


Edited by Richard Howell - 1/22/14 at 5:54pm
post #875 of 898

The reality is that there could very well be a private investigator or two cyber stalking Howell and passing on his online activity to the lawyers.  Whether or not those PIs also post comments to stir the pot and bait him to violating the orders further is anybody's guess.

post #876 of 898
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteroom View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tog View Post
 

Put it this way, none of the binding people - those that actually collect bindings or care about them, will be skiing a kneebinding soon. Even at half off. Top it off with no TUV accredation.  No one is shocked who first looked at them but we thought they'd fix it,  but not enough apparently so that pretty much closes the door.

I know multiple people who 'care about bindings' who ski Kneebindings and love them. What the f**k are you talking about? 2 or 3 prolific posters on epicski? You think that is representative of the vast number of people who actually ski and care about ski gear? If so you are sorely mistaken. Plenty of folks who 'care' wouldn't be able to tolerate the vast wasteland of stupidity that is any 'ski forum'.

Loving something and knowing about it are two different things. Caring about ski gear and knowing about bindings are very different.

I've no doubt they might ski well.

How many of those people even know about TUV? How many of those knew about the AFD's falling off? How many of those knew about the main screw issues or the pivot point issues? All early construction problems of a publicly released safety product.

 

I know of very few people who know much about bindings to have any sort of discussion that has anything to actually do with a binding's function. Skis are totally different as are boots. Get to bindings and the number of people drops probably by a factor of 100 to 1,000. It's rare.

post #877 of 898
Quote:
Originally Posted by lakespapa View Post
 

 

I'm sorry.  I remember you saying, early on, that you couldn't really talk about certain things as the result of a legal gag order.  I assumed that that was true.  Lately, I'd wondered why you were posting more vociferously; I assumed that the gag order had been lifted.  So when you posted the letters, above, it seemed obvious that you had been violating that gag order. There's nothing in the letters, naturally, to suggest that the injunction is bogus, based on a fraud on the court (which -- though pardon me, I'm not a lawyer -- seems to be a claim that remains in contest).  Proof that everything the lawyer says here is a lie has not been provided (not to doubt a lawyer can lie). 

 

If fraud is proven in court, I'd guess non-disclosure agreements would be void.  Until then, I'd guess (given legal logic) such agreements would remain in effect.  

 

This looks like a terrible snarl.  It probably ought to be worked out in the courts, rather than here -- sounds like it could be cheaper in the long run, and more secure.


@lakespapa   There's 'things' we did not know early-on that we learned during discovery (during the deposition) that changed everything.  :) 

post #878 of 898
Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post
 

The reality is that there could very well be a private investigator or two cyber stalking Howell and passing on his online activity to the lawyers.  Whether or not those PIs also post comments to stir the pot and bait him to violating the orders further is anybody's guess.

 

@crgildart   Indeed, the hijacker on the other side in the litigation flipped his software company and remains a consultant to the purchasing company, today.  The company to whom they sold — then integrated some of the new company's operations into the hijacker's former company:  those operations, in part, are to develop the software utilized, in part, by the U.S. government for 'monitoring' electronic communications.  Their intentional honey-baits (as we call them here in Vermont) here on Epic will come back to them at trial.

post #879 of 898
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagles Pdx View Post
 
The issue was and is Mr. Howell's voluminous disparaging remarks about Knee Bindings combined with his promotion of a proposed competitive product.   A surgeon posts of his experience with Knee Bindings…and Shazamm….here's Howell posting his various manifestos AGAIN, attacking Knee Binding AGAIN, promoting his as yet fictional competitive products AGAIN.  And then we have his Greek chorus then bemoaning the "revival" of all that hoo haa when they and Howell are what they are complaining about with thread hijacking and boring repetitive gibberish.
 
All the surgeon wanted to do was talk about Knee Bindings.

Yeah you keep mentioning that as if it's some sort of engineering endorsement. He's welcome to keep posting btw, but I'm sure he as better things to do.

 

We went through this with ChrisfromRI. Just because one uses a product and doesn't get hurt doesn't in fact make it safe. It would take tens of thousands and studies to know. The issues originally brought up were the construction/build issues.

 

Since you're so knowledgeable, or are a sock puppet of the Chairman, why hasn't kneebinding gotten TUV approval?? That's a minimum standard dude, not exactly a big deal seeing as the cheapest bindings have gotten it.

 

Really, you've got no case without an answer to that one. Because without that, it indicates the binding does not hold up to simple standards set forth over the last 40 years. I don't care how many people "love" their kneebinding. Ask those that love it if they know it doesn't meet the standards formulated for Alpine bindings.

Imagine if the surgeon was using hips that were not constructed up to the relevant ASTM or ISO standards? What are the chances of that happening?? None.Yeah it's not directly comparable, but maybe you get the point.

post #880 of 898
Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post
 

The reality is that there could very well be a private investigator or two cyber stalking Howell and passing on his online activity to the lawyers.  Whether or not those PIs also post comments to stir the pot and bait him to violating the orders further is anybody's guess.

 

Chuckle...why would anyone need a "private investigator" to find Howell's EpicSki epic rants.  The Knee Binding folks started this thread and Howell parachuted in with guns blazing.  Actually his pattern, repeated several times in this thread,is post something seemingly reasonable which quickly morphs into conspiracy theories, attacks on Knee Bindings, attacks on anyone who questions the great and powerful Howell and commercial promotion of his "three years from now" competitive product...for which he is taking deposits today.

 

Howell's Hijack Hijinks are amusing and you gotta love the letter Knee Binding's attorney sent him.  That was the most informative post we've seen from Mr. Howell. A lot of factual backstory in the letter.

post #881 of 898
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tog View Post
 

Yeah you keep mentioning that as if it's some sort of engineering endorsement. He's welcome to keep posting btw, but I'm sure he as better things to do.

 

Not sure how you jump from a surgeon's comment on ACL's and his use of knee binding as an engineering endorsement. It would be a medical endorsement except the person didn't make any endorsement, medical or otherwise.  As for keep posting, one look at the disparaging and juvenile responses, and he likely was long gone.  Which gets back to EpicSki allowing that kind of bad behavior which drives off new members and renders the content worthless.

post #882 of 898
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagles Pdx View Post
 

 

Chuckle...why would anyone need a "private investigator" to find Howell's EpicSki epic rants.  The Knee Binding folks started this thread and Howell parachuted in with guns blazing.  Actually his pattern, repeated several times in this thread,is post something seemingly reasonable which quickly morphs into conspiracy theories, attacks on Knee Bindings, attacks on anyone who questions the great and powerful Howell and commercial promotion of his "three years from now" competitive product...for which he is taking deposits today.

 

Howell's Hijack Hijinks are amusing and you gotta love the letter Knee Binding's attorney sent him.  That was the most informative post we've seen from Mr. Howell. A lot of factual backstory in the letter.


@Eagles Pdx    Sorry, Eagles, courts determine 'facts' — not opposing lawyers.  If all points made by opposing lawyers were 'facts' — how would there ever be court resolution?   Nice try.  But then, a lot of other lawyers have told me some pretty interesting stories about this lawyer's 'points' over the years.  I remain confident that we will prevail over you and you 'buddies'.

 

BTW, we also know all about that orthopaedic surgeon and his common fraternity.

post #883 of 898
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Howell View Post
 

 

@crgildart   Indeed, the hijacker on the other side in the litigation flipped his software company and remains a consultant to the purchasing company, today.  The company to whom they sold — then integrated some of the new company's operations into the hijacker's former company:  those operations, in part, are to develop the software utilized, in part, by the U.S. government for 'monitoring' electronic communications.  Their intentional honey-baits (as we call them here in Vermont) here on Epic will come back to them at trial.

 

Wow! The black helicopters!

post #884 of 898
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagles Pdx View Post
 

 

Wow! The black helicopters!

 

The good news is that the company in question is NYSE-traded — so one can read all about it, publicly.

post #885 of 898
All of this discussion by Eagles PDX and Rick are not helping the reputation of either KneeBinding or the upcoming Howell Binding. While there is not an official cease and desist, I would strong suggest a self imposed one and leave this alone before it gets even further out of hand than it is. 
post #886 of 898

You can't make this sh*t up.....

post #887 of 898
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tog View Post
 

Yeah you keep mentioning that as if it's some sort of engineering endorsement. He's welcome to keep posting btw, but I'm sure he as better things to do.

 

We went through this with ChrisfromRI. Just because one uses a product and doesn't get hurt doesn't in fact make it safe. It would take tens of thousands and studies to know. The issues originally brought up were the construction/build issues.

 

Since you're so knowledgeable, or are a sock puppet of the Chairman, why hasn't kneebinding gotten TUV approval?? That's a minimum standard dude, not exactly a big deal seeing as the cheapest bindings have gotten it.

 

Really, you've got no case without an answer to that one. Because without that, it indicates the binding does not hold up to simple standards set forth over the last 40 years. I don't care how many people "love" their kneebinding. Ask those that love it if they know it doesn't meet the standards formulated for Alpine bindings.

Imagine if the surgeon was using hips that were not constructed up to the relevant ASTM or ISO standards? What are the chances of that happening?? None.Yeah it's not directly comparable, but maybe you get the point.

 

@Tog   BTW, does anyone know if the rumor is true or false that Chris blew out his ACL ?

post #888 of 898
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagles Pdx View Post
 

 

Chuckle...why would anyone need a "private investigator" to find Howell's EpicSki epic rants.  The Knee Binding folks started this thread and Howell parachuted in with guns blazing.  Actually his pattern, repeated several times in this thread,is post something seemingly reasonable which quickly morphs into conspiracy theories, attacks on Knee Bindings, attacks on anyone who questions the great and powerful Howell and commercial promotion of his "three years from now" competitive product...for which he is taking deposits today.

 

Howell's Hijack Hijinks are amusing and you gotta love the letter Knee Binding's attorney sent him.  That was the most informative post we've seen from Mr. Howell. A lot of factual backstory in the letter.


For nothing more than a satisfied knee binding customer you certainly do have an odd infatuation with Howell, especially if he really is no legitimate competitive threat to your beloved set of knee bindings, once replaced:rolleyes 

 

OK I'm out Phil and Cirque LOL!

:popcorn

post #889 of 898
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post
All of this discussion by Eagles PDX and Rick are not helping the reputation of either KneeBinding or the upcoming Howell Binding. While there is not an official cease and desist, I would strong suggest a self imposed one and leave this alone before it gets even further out of hand than it is. 

 

Agreed.

post #890 of 898
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Howell View Post
 

 

Agreed.

 

@Eagles Pdx ? You agree? 

post #891 of 898
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagles Pdx View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tog View Post
 

Yeah you keep mentioning that as if it's some sort of engineering endorsement. He's welcome to keep posting btw, but I'm sure he as better things to do.

 

Not sure how you jump from a surgeon's comment on ACL's and his use of knee binding as an engineering endorsement. It would be a medical endorsement except the person didn't make any endorsement, medical or otherwise.  As for keep posting, one look at the disparaging and juvenile responses, and he likely was long gone.  Which gets back to EpicSki allowing that kind of bad behavior which drives off new members and renders the content worthless

 

You can read and interpret quite well. So you know exactly what you're doing.

I'm talking about your continual mention of this "surgeon" who "loves" his kneebinding. You mention it to attempt to add credibility - as if it has meaning for the actual binding. It's your mention of the "surgeon", not the surgeon's posts.

Does the "surgeon" know his binding does not meet the minimal standards for Alpine bindings formulated by the ISO and tested by the TUV? Doubtful.

 

As for the content being worthless in this thread, it's actually got some good stuff.

I haven't seen much posted by you though, other than trying to say TUV accredidation is no big deal or not even needed or worse. Why don't you give us some actual information on the binding you are selling? What are the steps to improvement that are being taken? Forget about the "surgeon". You know something tell it. Something more than "oh there's so many happy users" . Yeah there's lots of happy Honda Fit drivers, but their car just got a poor rating on the IIHS test.

Even the Chairman posted info at one time.


Edited by Tog - 1/22/14 at 7:13pm
post #892 of 898

Why not move this entertaining zeppelin disaster to the Bear Den?

 

post #893 of 898
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Howell View Post
 

 

@Tog   BTW, does anyone know if the rumor is true or false that Chris blew out his ACL ?

The only recent injury I've had is a shoulder dislocation/sublux while skiing in a slalom race (which was minor according to several MDs and I was swimming laps within a week and racing again within two weeks). I am fine,and my ACL(s) are fine! So far I've skied 34 days this season and 332 days total on KneeBindings without a pre-release. There is one time I think my KneeBindings released and saved me a knee injury via their lateral heel release. Sorry if I've been quiet, but I've been skiing...

post #894 of 898
Let them slug it out !!! This must be by far the most entertaining thread . (And educational, but that aspect I would keep for elsewhere). Oh, Chaos where art thou? I love threads with lawyers.
post #895 of 898
Quote:
Originally Posted by CHRISfromRI View Post
 

. There is one time I think my KneeBindings released and saved me a knee injury via their lateral heel release.

 

I think I had similar lateral release that saved me when a boarder hit me right at the knee at high speed at a right angle.  Pictures of NaVorro Bowman flashing in my head.  The ski came off.  Not sure if that was unique to my Knee Bindings, taking a side shot and having the ski release the foot laterally.

post #896 of 898
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post
 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Howell View Post
 

 

Agreed.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post
 

 

@Eagles Pdx ? You agree? 

 

@Eagles Pdx I will ask you again, are you willing to walk away?  Rick is willing to walk away, why are you not? 

post #897 of 898

So is it possible to have a binding discussion with tech info like we've had here and not get into either of these two bindings?

That could be interesting. It may however be like having a MA of someone's video without getting into some sort of ridiculous something that often happens.

post #898 of 898

Agreed or not, I think it's time to declare this a happy ending.  

 

Thanks everyone.  Be sure to tune in next week for as the binding turns. 

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