New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

MA for 9 yr old (Pics)

post #1 of 16
Thread Starter 

My 9 yr old is on a race "development" team.  Gets about 30-40 days of ski and has been skiing about 4 years.  I have some pics from a recent race (sorry, no video).  Just curious if the pics provide some clues to identify key improvement/focus areas (will try to get video next time).

 

One thing I've noticed is that his hands are somewhat "wild" which leads to excessive upper body movement and also he has a tendency to drop the inside hand which causes him to rotate in.  He trains in a group so the focus is more on the group than the individual in terms of the drills that they do.  I was looking for input here on addl. areas that he could work on to improve his skiing.  (and yes he is not on race skis!)

 

thanks!

 

 

 

 

 

post #2 of 16

I am no pro, but I have 3 kids in development and just looking at these pics, I would say that the stance in pics 2, 3, 4 is too  narrow.  But, for a 9 year old, he looks good to me!

post #3 of 16
The biggest thing for me is that He is not angulating. Also, he can bend the boots but seems fairly in the back seat and using his upper body to get some pressure forward?. For 4 years of training he should be handling the skis quite a bit better - but again, it is hard to do this from 3 photos in one turn at a race - witness the other recent challenge here. Video is much better and especially in traning not race, wher there is added pressure, screwy turn shapes etc.

Quiet his arms, get him to keep them in the front at all times (cue: see them at the bottom of the goggles), work on angulating a lot and using the outside ski only and take it from there.
post #4 of 16
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sorcamc View Post

I am no pro, but I have 3 kids in development and just looking at these pics, I would say that the stance in pics 2, 3, 4 is too  narrow.  But, for a 9 year old, he looks good to me!

 

Yes it does look quite narrow in these pics doesn't it? (usually he skis wider - not sure what was going on here)

post #5 of 16
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by razie View Post

The biggest thing for me is that He is not angulating. Also, he can bend the boots but seems fairly in the back seat and using his upper body to get some pressure forward?. For 4 years of training he should be handling the skis quite a bit better - but again, it is hard to do this from 3 photos in one turn at a race - witness the other recent challenge here. Video is much better and especially in traning not race, wher there is added pressure, screwy turn shapes etc.

Quiet his arms, get him to keep them in the front at all times (cue: see them at the bottom of the goggles), work on angulating a lot and using the outside ski only and take it from there.

 

Razie - any drills for "teaching" angulation or does it "happen" based on doing other things right? I agree he looks back seat.  I will try to get some free skiing video and post that up.  thanks. 

post #6 of 16

IMH experience, kids your son's age that have skied since they were very young almost always have some vestigial movement patterns to sort out. One of the big ones is upper and lower body separation. When they're little, they just can't do it. At 9, they can, but don't without some guided practice. This also needs to be addressed outside the gates, so limit his time in them to 2-3 runs and focus the day on directed free skiing and a handful of drills that focus on the issue... Hockey stops, anything 'pivoty', etc.... If you want to sort out his hands, take him to the bunny hill or very easy green, take off a ski, and spend a few runs focusing on a stance that provides the best balance and mobility, then bring this experience back to two skis. My explanations sound academic, but it's easy to do all this in a very fun and challenging ways that he'll enjoy. The key really is some good coaching to build new movement patterns.

post #7 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by GettingThere View Post

 

Razie - any drills for "teaching" angulation or does it "happen" based on doing other things right? I agree he looks back seat.  I will try to get some free skiing video and post that up.  thanks. 

no, it doesn't really happen automatically - I would teach angulation/separation directly, especially at that age group.

 

in terms of drills, the classic is the picture frame: keep the poles upright from the middle of them, in front of you and frame the lift house or something and keep it there - works on both angulation and separation.

my favorite is to keep the poles in front of him, horizontal and do not let them lean on any side.

also, outside boot touches, with the inside hand though pointing to the outside, not the inside

... anything that gets him to break at the hip

 

Here's a great resource for you: http://www.skismarts.com/problems.htm although the drills are explained in "adult language"...

 

I'm not that big on drills though - just tell him constantly that he has to read what is written on the bases of his skis, during those drills - that should send him the right message: tip the skis one way and the upper body the other

 

My younger son just started angulating/separating, and thus trusting the outside ski now, in his 2nd year of training, at 10. you'll hear me being happy about it in this vid (low quality) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KziMyQqNhns - note as he passes by me the same approximate position and hand issues as yours - keep working on those hands :)

post #8 of 16
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by markojp View Post

IMH experience, kids your son's age that have skied since they were very young almost always have some vestigial movement patterns to sort out. One of the big ones is upper and lower body separation. When they're little, they just can't do it. At 9, they can, but don't without some guided practice. This also needs to be addressed outside the gates, so limit his time in them to 2-3 runs and focus the day on directed free skiing and a handful of drills that focus on the issue... Hockey stops, anything 'pivoty', etc.... If you want to sort out his hands, take him to the bunny hill or very easy green, take off a ski, and spend a few runs focusing on a stance that provides the best balance and mobility, then bring this experience back to two skis. My explanations sound academic, but it's easy to do all this in a very fun and challenging ways that he'll enjoy. The key really is some good coaching to build new movement patterns.

 

Markojp - makes sense.  thanks.

post #9 of 16

Check out a new thing I tried today with U12, part of my GS progression: outside boot touch with a twist: the inside hand pointing to the outside. Since most failed, you can progress there by starting with a regular outside hand on hip and the inside hand pointing to the outside, then lower the hand from hip to boot. Make sure when the "hand points to the outside" the shoulders do too :).

 

That gives you a lot: get low to touch the boot, separation to point to the outside, angulation to crunch down to the boot, completely separating upper from lower body and standing ovations :)

 

add some clapping in between turns and you're off to the races :)

 

seriously, try it out - it will take a few runs...

 

cheers,

razie

post #10 of 16

Balance,Balance , Balance, I don't think he will build any angles until you get him up in the front of those boots. he needs to contact the cuff forward first and laterally second to progress. If you look at the relative flex in his joints you can see the ankle is pretty dormant and it's all hip and knee which will always keep him back and susceptible to fluctuations in terrain. Check out USSA skills quest for some good drills with a racing focus. I really think hands are a tell of something that is happening in transition and a symptom not so much a cause.

post #11 of 16

It also looks like he gets on edge by shoving the inside ski ahead and dropping onto it , the inside ski is quite flat compared to the outside, getting him up over his feet esp. outside will help the tipping come from the right places (lower extremities).

post #12 of 16
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdxammo View Post

Balance,Balance , Balance, I don't think he will build any angles until you get him up in the front of those boots. he needs to contact the cuff forward first and laterally second to progress. If you look at the relative flex in his joints you can see the ankle is pretty dormant and it's all hip and knee which will always keep him back and susceptible to fluctuations in terrain. Check out USSA skills quest for some good drills with a racing focus. I really think hands are a tell of something that is happening in transition and a symptom not so much a cause.

 

Do you think the not so quiet hands are a sign of using upper body for turn initiation vs. tipping? I forget where on the course these pics were taken but I can see your point about the ankle being very open in the last 3 pics (along with bending at the waist to get the weight forwards).  I probably should look at his boot flex also.  Thanks for the feedback.  I'll try to observe more of his free skiing

post #13 of 16

I agree that hands are a symptom rather than a cause. That said, to successfully ski on one ski forces one to have a very quiet upper body. A flexed ankle (functional tension) with the pelvis over  the feet, and hands held up, out and forward makes it much easier. It's all about establishing balance. For your little guy, it accomplishes this, but most importantly, he'll have a blast! 


Edited by markojp - 2/11/13 at 11:28pm
post #14 of 16
Certainly I'm not saying to ignore the hands but I'm not sure fundamental balance issues can be fixed that way definitely part of the mix though.
I'm going to clarify what I think he's doing to e edge and move inside.because balance its an issue, your little guy, instead of having both ankles flexed and tipping by using the feet and leg shafts he pushes that inside foot ahead to get the leg out of the way so the body can drop onto the inside ski.this puts him to inside too early and not balanced against the outside ski. His alignment is off because the inside ankle is straight but he feels flexed on the outside. He's probably overly focused on the outside foot which is quite natural, many adults I know do the same thing going for big angles and speed.
Get the USSA coaches stores of DVDs there are great drills and conceptual presentations of value to all skiers.
I would focus on dolls and movements that encourage balance fore aft first then laterally.
I really like hoping poles, there is such clear self coaching possible when you feel yourself falling behind. Using all the joints especially the ankles and directing your body forward is the focus. Spacing pitch and number challenge the mastery of the drill.
When you make headway there I'd move onto balance foot to foot (lateral) one ski skiing, hoping foot to foot skating downhill are all good exercises.
One thing that is nice is that on the skills quest and coaches DVDs is that they call out very specific movements that indicate success. How something is done is as important as if its being done.
I'm really envious of the opportunity your soon has to race, there was no such thing in my area and in fact I'd only skied 4 times by the tome I was in my mid thirties, I'd live to have such a rich background in skiing.
post #15 of 16
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdxammo View Post

Certainly I'm not saying to ignore the hands but I'm not sure fundamental balance issues can be fixed that way definitely part of the mix though.
I'm going to clarify what I think he's doing to e edge and move inside.because balance its an issue, your little guy, instead of having both ankles flexed and tipping by using the feet and leg shafts he pushes that inside foot ahead to get the leg out of the way so the body can drop onto the inside ski.this puts him to inside too early and not balanced against the outside ski. His alignment is off because the inside ankle is straight but he feels flexed on the outside. He's probably overly focused on the outside foot which is quite natural, many adults I know do the same thing going for big angles and speed.
Get the USSA coaches stores of DVDs there are great drills and conceptual presentations of value to all skiers.
I would focus on dolls and movements that encourage balance fore aft first then laterally.
I really like hoping poles, there is such clear self coaching possible when you feel yourself falling behind. Using all the joints especially the ankles and directing your body forward is the focus. Spacing pitch and number challenge the mastery of the drill.
When you make headway there I'd move onto balance foot to foot (lateral) one ski skiing, hoping foot to foot skating downhill are all good exercises.
One thing that is nice is that on the skills quest and coaches DVDs is that they call out very specific movements that indicate success. How something is done is as important as if its being done.
I'm really envious of the opportunity your soon has to race, there was no such thing in my area and in fact I'd only skied 4 times by the tome I was in my mid thirties, I'd live to have such a rich background in skiing.

 

Me too!  I picked up skiing late in life and have to now learn it the hard way.  Thanks for the addl. input.

post #16 of 16
Yes also non traditional input methods like Swype, sorry for the typos, I'll fix next time I'm on the PC, good luck, post some video?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Ski Instruction & Coaching