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knee bindings - Page 2

post #31 of 47

That's cause the Chairman was at the boot pro. That's about as far as I'll go on that one. Last year the Mt. had 20 pairs for tryouts. I guess that's over.

post #32 of 47

I've posted this before, but I will post it again.

 

I toasted my ACL on a pair of 194 Faction Thirteens with Salomon s916s and Atomic M110s.  The bindings were set at 13.  Forward pressure and wings and toe height were all set properly.  But in an attempt to gain more volume in my boots, I was skiing without footbeds that day.  Which gave a strange floaty feeling in the boots.  That caused the crash in which I hyper-extended my knee and tore my ACL.

 

Sure, if the bindings were set lower, I probably would have come out of them.  But they didn't cause the crash.

 

I still ski 916s.  Several pairs of them.  But know I ski them at 11/12 and have not had an issue, even in some pretty horrific crashes.

post #33 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Capacity View Post

The guy's at the Boot Pro told me that one of the regular's had all the old bindings removed and had these put on all he and his wifes skis.

 




And did he tell you if he LIKED his wife or not?
post #34 of 47

Funny, good one. :)

post #35 of 47

My biggest concern is the developer (ie true knowledge base) of the Kneebinding  is no longer with the company, the only thing new I've seen is new colors.

 

Makes me wonder.

post #36 of 47

I just switched to knee bindings this year from Look Pivots. I notice that most Knee customers have had ACL scares or tears before; in my case I have two artificial knees, still insist on skiing 40+ days a year because I must, but know another bad pre-release or non-release could easily end skiing for me. So to show some maturity, a set of Knee Carbon bindings went on my new pair of 180 Blizzard Bonafides this fall, good insurance.

 

All thoughts of it being a safety binding went away once I had the Bones up to speed.  It's a performance binding that happens to sport lateral heel release.  From the solid CLUNK they make when you lock in to the bombproof hold-down until you want out, it's the sturdiest binding I've skied.   No release yet, and I've been out several days on a mix of early season snow, mostly railing groomers. but with a foray or two into some bumps, boilerplate and unkempt snow. On edge, the high binding stand height powers the ski like a GS race plate when carving, and they lost no quickness when I tossed a few rotary turns in for good measure. The whole package just felt solid. How much of that was the three sheets of metal in the Bonafides, and how much the made-in-USA muscle car feel of the Knee Carbons? Dunno, but I got these pups up to barking speed and felt secure doing it, at DIN 7 (190 lb guy).

 

All that made me look at the turntable bindings on my other skis, put in the boot on the bench, and feel how much heel slop they permit (properly adjusted) by comparison to the Knee bindings.  Ouch! Did I really like those for decades?  As an engineer, I'm impressed with Knee's build quality, and solid is something you can feel skiing.

 

PS I'll update my post if and once they release... 

post #37 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Capacity View Post
I'll trust the engineers on this one.

Being an engineer myself, I can relate.  The problem is that one of the engineers, and in my opinion a very good one (my qualifications as an expert witness in this opinion are a P. Eng. and a B.Sc, M.Sc and Ph.D. in civil engineering), has been gagged by the courts from talking about the bindings.  

 

I'll stick with the top of the line Tyrolia racing binding for now.

post #38 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlpineImages View Post
 

I just switched to knee bindings this year from Look Pivots. I notice that most Knee customers have had ACL scares or tears before; in my case I have two artificial knees, still insist on skiing 40+ days a year because I must, but know another bad pre-release or non-release could easily end skiing for me. So to show some maturity, a set of Knee Carbon bindings went on my new pair of 180 Blizzard Bonafides this fall, good insurance.

 

All thoughts of it being a safety binding went away once I had the Bones up to speed.  It's a performance binding that happens to sport lateral heel release.  From the solid CLUNK they make when you lock in to the bombproof hold-down until you want out, it's the sturdiest binding I've skied.   No release yet, and I've been out several days on a mix of early season snow, mostly railing groomers. but with a foray or two into some bumps, boilerplate and unkempt snow. On edge, the high binding stand height powers the ski like a GS race plate when carving, and they lost no quickness when I tossed a few rotary turns in for good measure. The whole package just felt solid. How much of that was the three sheets of metal in the Bonafides, and how much the made-in-USA muscle car feel of the Knee Carbons? Dunno, but I got these pups up to barking speed and felt secure doing it, at DIN 7 (190 lb guy).

 

All that made me look at the turntable bindings on my other skis, put in the boot on the bench, and feel how much heel slop they permit (properly adjusted) by comparison to the Knee bindings.  Ouch! Did I really like those for decades?  As an engineer, I'm impressed with Knee's build quality, and solid is something you can feel skiing.

 

PS I'll update my post if and once they release... 

Maturity?

Forgive my skepticism, but when someone's first post is an endorsement of a product I have to ask--do you have any connection to the product? (BTW-I have no opinion on knee binding one way or the other.)

post #39 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldgoat View Post

Maturity?
Forgive my skepticism, but when someone's first post is an endorsement of a product I have to ask--do you have any connection to the product? (BTW-I have no opinion on knee binding one way or the other.)
you don't have to ask, pretty clear this is marketing material from knee binding.
post #40 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldgoat View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlpineImages View Post
 

I just switched to knee bindings this year from Look Pivots. I notice that most Knee customers have had ACL scares or tears before; in my case I have two artificial knees, still insist on skiing 40+ days a year because I must, but know another bad pre-release or non-release could easily end skiing for me. So to show some maturity, a set of Knee Carbon bindings went on my new pair of 180 Blizzard Bonafides this fall, good insurance.

 

All thoughts of it being a safety binding went away once I had the Bones up to speed.  It's a performance binding that happens to sport lateral heel release.  From the solid CLUNK they make when you lock in to the bombproof hold-down until you want out, it's the sturdiest binding I've skied.   No release yet, and I've been out several days on a mix of early season snow, mostly railing groomers. but with a foray or two into some bumps, boilerplate and unkempt snow. On edge, the high binding stand height powers the ski like a GS race plate when carving, and they lost no quickness when I tossed a few rotary turns in for good measure. The whole package just felt solid. How much of that was the three sheets of metal in the Bonafides, and how much the made-in-USA muscle car feel of the Knee Carbons? Dunno, but I got these pups up to barking speed and felt secure doing it, at DIN 7 (190 lb guy).

 

All that made me look at the turntable bindings on my other skis, put in the boot on the bench, and feel how much heel slop they permit (properly adjusted) by comparison to the Knee bindings.  Ouch! Did I really like those for decades?  As an engineer, I'm impressed with Knee's build quality, and solid is something you can feel skiing.

 

PS I'll update my post if and once they release... 

Maturity?

Forgive my skepticism, but when someone's first post is an endorsement of a product I have to ask--do you have any connection to the product? (BTW-I have no opinion on knee binding one way or the other.)


Hm. Could be. On the other hand, I'd have expected to hear something about the time the binding released during a phantom foot incident.  People who buy the thing get excited about it — seems like a logical development in bindings.

 

I'm neutral, myself. My wife bought a pair and likes them (weight aside), but she's no shredder. People's question about this binding has to do with the fact that they're not TUV certified — there's no data on the force it takes to break an ACL the way there is on bones.  And if the DIN is set low enough to avoid an ACL injury, what's the chance of prerelease?

 

Most of the data is anecdotal at this point. The one ACL incident we know of (here) was by a woman who landed a jump wrong. It wasn't a phantom foot deal, so it's not something the binding is designed to mitigate. Even Rick Howell, the design engineer who's involved in a lawsuit with KB after being forced out, would agree.

post #41 of 47

Not sure about the maturity remark; I'm 59 and have been skiing 45 years.  As to why my first post was enthusiasm about new equipment, some explanation is in order.  I reviewed these bindings quite a bit before deciding on them, but found many old threads and little current feedback from skiers.  Most articles were from folks debating the product's claims and engineering. But I found few that were from skiers telling me how they worked while SKIING.

 

So I took a chance on these, liked them, and decided this was a good forum to share my observations: thus far the Knee's seem rock solid and safe. 

 

And no doubt, one's first post on any blog has to start somewhere. In many other forums, I enjoy blasting products that are designed to break or wear out, difficult to fix, or just plain vaporware. In this case, so far I really like these bindings. 

post #42 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlpineImages View Post
 

Not sure about the maturity remark; I'm 59 and have been skiing 45 years.  As to why my first post was enthusiasm about new equipment, some explanation is in order.  I reviewed these bindings quite a bit before deciding on them, but found many old threads and little current feedback from skiers.  Most articles were from folks debating the product's claims and engineering. But I found few that were from skiers telling me how they worked while SKIING.

 

So I took a chance on these, liked them, and decided this was a good forum to share my observations: thus far the Knee's seem rock solid and safe. 

 

And no doubt, one's first post on any blog has to start somewhere. In many other forums, I enjoy blasting products that are designed to break or wear out, difficult to fix, or just plain vaporware. In this case, so far I really like these bindings. 


Sorry Alpineimages, you walked into a minefield. The topic's pretty controversial here, as I'm sure you know from other threads. People get skeptical fast.

post #43 of 47

Thanks, Ghost.  Your street cred outranks me; I'm just an EE and CEM, and the EE part is growing some mold. But I've played fail mode analyst at nuclear facilities, turned a wrench for 40+ years, mounted lots of bindings in that time, and have learned to sense good build quality.  Purely from a handling standpoint, these bindings feel stouter than anything I've been on save a late 80's Geze race binding. But I'm open minded, do know that a rift between the designer and the company owner exists, but unless I hear him tell me that he thinks his design unsafe, I can only evaluate how they ski and how they hold up.  You are also welcome to clue me in, as I suspect you've evaluated these yourself.

 

My only question of the engineer thus far is why the force needed to open the heel is so high. 

post #44 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlpineImages View Post
But I'm open minded, do know that a rift between the designer and the company owner exists, but unless I hear him tell me that he thinks his design unsafe, I can only evaluate how they ski and how they hold up. 

 

I believe the designer made that claim, though I'm not going back to that thread to verify it. A very, very long thread.

post #45 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlpineImages View Post
 

I just switched to knee bindings this year from Look Pivots. I notice that most Knee customers have had ACL scares or tears before; in my case I have two artificial knees, still insist on skiing 40+ days a year because I must, but know another bad pre-release or non-release could easily end skiing for me. So to show some maturity, a set of Knee Carbon bindings went on my new pair of 180 Blizzard Bonafides this fall, good insurance.

 

All thoughts of it being a safety binding went away once I had the Bones up to speed.  It's a performance binding that happens to sport lateral heel release.  From the solid CLUNK they make when you lock in to the bombproof hold-down until you want out, it's the sturdiest binding I've skied.   No release yet, and I've been out several days on a mix of early season snow, mostly railing groomers. but with a foray or two into some bumps, boilerplate and unkempt snow. On edge, the high binding stand height powers the ski like a GS race plate when carving, and they lost no quickness when I tossed a few rotary turns in for good measure. The whole package just felt solid. How much of that was the three sheets of metal in the Bonafides, and how much the made-in-USA muscle car feel of the Knee Carbons? Dunno, but I got these pups up to barking speed and felt secure doing it, at DIN 7 (190 lb guy).

 

All that made me look at the turntable bindings on my other skis, put in the boot on the bench, and feel how much heel slop they permit (properly adjusted) by comparison to the Knee bindings.  Ouch! Did I really like those for decades?  As an engineer, I'm impressed with Knee's build quality, and solid is something you can feel skiing.

 

PS I'll update my post if and once they release... 

 

I have a local ski maker friend that I really trust who first told me about how much he liked these a few years back, and sold me on the theory of the lateral heel release.  When I next needed bindings I started reading a little about them and found very mixed reviews, and a lot of stories about poorly timed ejections.  I discussed these with my friend, who has quite a lot of experience mounting them, and he basically said they are a little more difficult to mount, but if the person mounting them knows what they are doing they shouldn't have problems.  I happened to run into him on the hill and he easily out-skied me in his, so I got a pair and had him mount them and they have been very solid since.  I can't say that they work any better than any of my other bindings (I, luckily, haven't had the opportunity to test the lateral heel release specifically), but they certainly perform no worse to date.  I've ridden ~25 days on them so far.  They are on fat powder skis.

post #46 of 47

Please don't let this thread turn ugly, please don't let this thread turn ugly, please don't let this thread turn ugly........

post #47 of 47

Update.

 

I told the few followers of this thread I'd report back once I had a release, either needed or pre-release.  Unfortunately, neither has occurred yet.  Ten days in on these skis / bindings, and I've flopped over in the trees twice thus far, but no drama yet.  They remain reassuringly solid and unsexy.  And my knees are still intact.

 

No drama is a good thing, which our moderator was hoping for.

 

But it's been dumping here, we're off tomorrow for Vail, so I'm back on the Line Bacons and Look Pivots for now.  Deep snow rules!

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