EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Tuning, Maintenance and Repairs › Do I need skiing specific brushes to hot wax?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Do I need skiing specific brushes to hot wax?

post #1 of 17
Thread Starter 

I am trying to learn how to hot wax my skis.  I am looking to buy some equipment to do it soon.  I think I need a nylon brush, a brass or bronze brush, and an iron, in addition to some wax. While doing my research I came across this brush set  Can I use these, or is there some fundamental difference between brushes produced specifically for skis?

 

Thanks!

post #2 of 17

Size matters.

post #3 of 17

Welcome to EpicSki.

 

You will want  to buy ski-specific brushes.  The ones featured in the link are too small. It would take forever to use them on a ski base and it would be difficult to generate the force needed to effectively brush the base, with either the nylon or brass brush.  Several reps who sell ski tuning gear are members of EpicSki, such as SlideWright, and post here frequently.  Check out their websites.

 

Over the past few years I have used my nylon brush less-and-less.  I prefer to use a Scotchbrite pad after scrapping the wax off, but that is just a personal preference.

 

If you have not already, you will find EpicSki has a wealth of  information on tuning.

post #4 of 17
Thread Starter 

Buster,

 

Thank you for the detailed reply, now I understand why those brushes are no good.  

 

I have been searching a bit and am actually browsing slideright.com now.  I see a lot of rotobrushes on there.  I don't understand how these make things easier?  It seems they are not hooked up to a drill as I see handles sold for them too?

post #5 of 17

James?

 

Forget the roto-brushes for now.  They are in fact hooked up to a portable drill (optional extra if you don't already have one) but you really don't need them and the added expense unless you're trying to save time tuning a bunch of skis (whole family?) each week.  The 3 brush set that Slidewright sells is a great place to start (speaking from experience)  http://www.slidewright.com/slidewright-waxing-brush-set_swwbs.html?cat=65

 

I learned (am learning) to tune my own skis via lots of reading on this site.  You can start with http://www.epicski.com/a/how-to-hand-tune-skis

then search "tuning skis", "waxing skis, etc..  (Note:  Click on the "relavency" button vs. the "recency" button prior to searching).

 

I've also initiated several emails and phone conversations with Terry at Slidewright.  He's a great help and his website has some great tuning tips and videos.  There are also lots of tuning videos from all the major wax and tuning tool manufactures (Toko, Swix, Tognar, etc.)  Believe me, you can waste days reading/viewing this stuff when you should be out skiing.  

post #6 of 17

Welcome.  You are now officially 'through the looking glass'  biggrin.gif

 

Remember to include the following (assuming you don't have them) when you order brushes:

  • At least one plexiglass scraper - I find the 5mm ones best, as they're lees prone to flexing.
  • A couple of rubber bands for holding back your binding brakes.
  • An all purpose wax (at least) although you could list where and when you ski and ask for recommendations about more temperature-specific waxes.
  • Best way to clean wax off your scraper is with a citrus-based cleaner.  You'll find there's a lot of debate about using the same (or similar) cleaner on your bases prior to waxing (as against cleaning via hot wax & scrape).  Have a read and make up your own mind.
  • Eventually you'll need to sharpen your scraper, it just makes life easier.  I simply pass the edges across some glasspaper on the desktop a few times, so grab a square of fine(ish) glasspaper from somewhere.
  • It would also be a good idea to grab at least one diamond stone (medium fine) to remove burrs from your edges.  Eventually (probably) you'll get into sharpening your edges prior to waxing, but for now it's a great idea to run the stone over burrs to remove 'catchy' edges that will a) slice your pants, b) catch your fingers, c) scratch up your shiny new waxing iron, and d) ultimately affect your skiing.

 

Best of luck.

post #7 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdleuck View Post

James?

 

Forget the roto-brushes for now.  They are in fact hooked up to a portable drill (optional extra if you don't already have one) but you really don't need them and the added expense unless you're trying to save time tuning a bunch of skis (whole family?) each week.  The 3 brush set that Slidewright sells is a great place to start (speaking from experience)  http://www.slidewright.com/slidewright-waxing-brush-set_swwbs.html?cat=65

 

I learned (am learning) to tune my own skis via lots of reading on this site.  You can start with http://www.epicski.com/a/how-to-hand-tune-skis

then search "tuning skis", "waxing skis, etc..  (Note:  Click on the "relavency" button vs. the "recency" button prior to searching).

 

I've also initiated several emails and phone conversations with Terry at Slidewright.  He's a great help and his website has some great tuning tips and videos.  There are also lots of tuning videos from all the major wax and tuning tool manufactures (Toko, Swix, Tognar, etc.)  Believe me, you can waste days reading/viewing this stuff when you should be out skiing.  

that set is sold out, here's a similar set of brushes from racewax. I have these, they work well.

http://www.racewax.com/product/RB-1205/3-Brush-Kit-Set-of-Three-Nylon-HorseHair-Brass-Ski-Snowboard.html

 

If you don't want to go down this alley yet ($40 is a good chunk of money), you can get by going to your hardware store and looking for a nylon scrub brush (probably in cleaning area) for maybe $5.  You want something with shorter stiffer bristles so it's sturdy enough to get into the wax, then follow with a scotchbrite.  

 

It's not as good as the brush set, but when you're first starting out, maybe you don't need a perfect wax job.  You just need something to get most of the wax off, and some structure into the ski, so you don't suction and stick to the snow.  Then as in other threads, the snow will get the excess off for you (trading off time/money for a non-perfect wax job)


Edited by raytseng - 2/4/13 at 10:33pm
post #8 of 17

I brush out my wax jobs but sometimes I wonder what good it does for the average recreational skier.  This year I scraped and brushed out the summer wax on my skis, my wife's and one of my son's but forgot the other son's.  After a couple of runs there was no difference.  Obviously if you're race waxing it's a different story, and I'm not about to stop doing it, but I wonder.

post #9 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldgoat View Post

I brush out my wax jobs but sometimes I wonder what good it does for the average recreational skier.  This year I scraped and brushed out the summer wax on my skis, my wife's and one of my son's but forgot the other son's.  After a couple of runs there was no difference.  Obviously if you're race waxing it's a different story, and I'm not about to stop doing it, but I wonder.

   Not brushing out the structure can cause your ski to stick to the snow, hampering performance...esp. when turning. Think of the structure of the bases like tread on a car tire when driving on a wet/snowy surface. The pattern is there, in essence to move or clear away excess moisture out from under the tire/skis..

 

     zenny

post #10 of 17
Thread Starter 

Great information guys, thanks a lot!  I feel I have a much better grip on what kind of brushes I would want and why.  Also  the link to the how to hand tune article is terriffic.  Nice to have that much info in one place and much easier than trying to piece things together from many threads, or searching google and getting some possibly inaccurate info from a less trusted source.

post #11 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by jameson71 View Post

Great information guys, thanks a lot!  I feel I have a much better grip on what kind of brushes I would want and why.  Also  the link to the how to hand tune article is terriffic.  Nice to have that much info in one place and much easier than trying to piece things together from many threads, or searching google and getting some possibly inaccurate info from a less trusted source.

    Sure! Lot's of race techs here (like myself) with, in some cases, decades of tuning experienceicon14.gif

 

     zenny

post #12 of 17

If ya got the dough, get a couple of Rotos. So much faster and easier! icon14.gifbiggrin.gif

 

And if you want really want to make your life easier, get a box of Fiberlene sheets. Not only do they suck up the excess wax and create a very thin consistent wax surface making scraping much, much easier and faster, they help protect your bases from the heat of the iron.  1 sheet does 2 skis.

 

http://www.tognar.com/swix-fiberlene-hot-waxing-pro-paper-pack/

post #13 of 17

My experience has been that brushing and structure is only a real benefit on warmer, wetter days.  Unless you're competing for something substantial, a good scraping is the only thing you really need to do after applying the hot wax on an average ski day with temps in the 10-30 degree f range.  The grooves created from brushing help reduce water suction that can slow you down when the temps get above about 30 degrees. 

post #14 of 17
Thread Starter 

crgildart:

I'm mostly skiing in South/Eastern PA these days, Whitetail and Liberty with an occasional trip to blue knob.  At the local hills, I am usually dealing with 28* at the lowest, pretty wet manmade snow.  The sticking I was getting with the rentals last season was a real pain, prompting my to buy some low cost gear this year (along with ridiculous rental lines.)  Also do a bit on night skiing to avoid lines where I am skiing on hardpack (I think).  Not as much hardpack and bulletproof ice as I used to see in the Northeast in the 90s though.  This is where keeping the edges sharp and the bottoms waxed comes from, as well as trying to minimize the damage to my bases.  I am absolutely amazed how much abuse my bases  have taken in just  4 days so far this year.  I did have them hot waxed before the season and have been using swix f4 before each outing.

 

Aromicman,

After looking into them, the rotobrushes do seem to be a bit steep since I am starting from scratch and have a lot to buy.  How long does a typical wax job take with them vs without?  Would anyone like to recommend some edge file/stone guides?  From my research the adjustable ones are not too good, and I would need seperate ones for each angle?  From what I can gather my dynastar outland 72s probably came with 2/1?  I'd like to be able to maintain that and maybe try 3/1.  Also looking for a recomendation on vices.  I don't see much reason to spend a lot and get much more than a low end vise that can hold the skis?  But what do I know, like I said I am just starting out with this so looking for opinions.  I plan to try and take a private lesson with therusty soon at whitetail, and hopefully pick his brain at the same time on what waxes he likes for the area.

post #15 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by jameson71 View Post

crgildart:

I'm mostly skiing in South/Eastern PA these days, Whitetail and Liberty with an occasional trip to blue knob.  At the local hills, I am usually dealing with 28* at the lowest, pretty wet manmade snow.  The sticking I was getting with the rentals last season was a real pain, prompting my to buy some low cost gear this year (along with ridiculous rental lines.)  Also do a bit on night skiing to avoid lines where I am skiing on hardpack (I think).  Not as much hardpack and bulletproof ice as I used to see in the Northeast in the 90s though.  This is where keeping the edges sharp and the bottoms waxed comes from, as well as trying to minimize the damage to my bases.  I am absolutely amazed how much abuse my bases  have taken in just  4 days so far this year.  I did have them hot waxed before the season and have been using swix f4 before each outing.

 

F4 paste is too soft for the manmade snow at WT.     I am not surprised at all.

 

If I were you I would stop making a giant list of brushes and waxes for now: spend the money on edge maintenance tools.  

 

If you ski at Snowtime, 1 iron,  1 hard wax and 1 warm wax, 1 nylon and 1 horse brush and 1 really thick scraper will suffice.     Again, all that other stuff can wait until after you've bought your edge tools.

 

If you come up to BK for the MA Gathering, I'll have my travel kit with me.

post #16 of 17

It seems like once you start adding all this up, it is going to be quite a lot of money for a tuning setup..  

Reading your last post, you may want to take a step back from this sub-forum and poke around the ski-gear review threads.  Perhaps the money could be first better spent on a new pair of skis-or 2nd pair of skis, so you have something worthwhile to tune up?

 

The rotobrushes are not necessary if you are just skiing for fun.  The brushing is how much effort and time you want to put into it.  As you saw from other responses, some people don't brush at all.  I only go down the ski maybe 3times with each of the 3 brushes.   Again, i'm not racing so I don't need  perfection.  Setting up and plugging in your drill for your rotobrush, you might not be saving time at all-especially if you're only doing all this for just 1pair of skis.   If you have a couple pairs of skis, then  you can setup and do more skis at once then more time will be saved.

 

The wax will not last longer with or without the rotobrush.   It is just a tool to  clearing out the excess wax, so your first runs will have a really effortless glide.

 

If you want your wax to last longer between service, The rub-on wax you are using is not going to cut it.   You need to try the traditional method to hand-iron wax.  Then if the  ironed universal wax isn't lasting as long as you like, try ironing in colder wax a few times-even if you switch back to warmer wax on top or on your next wax service.

 

As far as edges, if you are able to stay out of big damage, it's is mostly just burrs.  You may just want to get one of the simpler adjustable edge tool +gummi stone for the main purpose of just maintaining and knocking off the burrs, or you could even free-hand it with just the diamond stone (is doing something freehand that safe to say here).  Leave the base edges alone.  Then take your skis in for a professional tuneup once a season (or more often).  The  shops typically have tune specials pre-season which can save cash.  

 

 

On the other hand, if this is something that you really want to do, and it bugs you, then by all means go spend all that money on the tuning gear.  


Edited by raytseng - 2/5/13 at 11:16am
post #17 of 17
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cantunamunch View Post

 

F4 paste is too soft for the manmade snow at WT.     I am not surprised at all.

 

If I were you I would stop making a giant list of brushes and waxes for now: spend the money on edge maintenance tools.  

 

If you ski at Snowtime, 1 iron,  1 hard wax and 1 warm wax, 1 nylon and 1 horse brush and 1 really thick scraper will suffice.     Again, all that other stuff can wait until after you've bought your edge tools.

 

If you come up to BK for the MA Gathering, I'll have my travel kit with me.

 

 

Good point.  Let me get these basics now so I don't take more damage this weekend.  Also, thanks for the heads up about the MA gathering, I'm going to try and make that, even though I'm kind of new here and my skiing is not exactly top notch.

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Tuning, Maintenance and Repairs
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Tuning, Maintenance and Repairs › Do I need skiing specific brushes to hot wax?