or Connect
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Please help to improve?

post #1 of 13
Thread Starter 

Dear epics,


being a Dutch skier and unfortunately only able to ski 6 days a year at most,I find myself stuck in a certain level now. I can't find the next step to improve. When I look at the video enclosed I think myself very sking staticly.

Do I have to throw away my legs further to the outside of the turn to achieve a greater angle? More carving? Are there any specific exercises for this or exercices for upper/lower body separation (how do I achieve the ''C'' shape)?

In 2 weeks we are going to ski in Les Menuires again and would very much apriciate your advice in what to improve in the first place.


Best regards,



Edited by K2fan - 2/4/13 at 4:17am
post #2 of 13

Dear Ton,


Are you sure you linked the correct clip?

post #3 of 13
Thread Starter 
Hello Rusty,

Blue sky, intermediate skier in grey jacket, lovely piste, green K2 rictors. When you see this it is the right one. What do you see Rusty?
post #4 of 13

Now I see the right clip. It was a little oriental girl with horribly bad sound.

post #5 of 13
Thread Starter 
I havent changed anything Rusty. Is it possible to delete my post? Than I will make another one and post the clip again. As I am not getting any anwers I think everybodywill see the false clip whatever that might be. Thanks for your reply.
post #6 of 13

K2fan: I had no problem with the video clip.  It has the name "skiclip3."  Didn't say anything because I'm not an instructor but am interested to see what feedback you get.

Originally Posted by K2fan View Post

I havent changed anything Rusty. Is it possible to delete my post? Than I will make another one and post the clip again. As I am not getting any anwers I think everybodywill see the false clip whatever that might be. Thanks for your reply.
post #7 of 13

Goedondag Tan,


These are nice skidded parallel turns with a round turn shape and a simultaneous edge change.


There is little angulation or counter and lots of skidding and yes you are very static. To get to the next level of performance, you need to turn your feet less and tip your feet more. As you tip your feet more, you will need to counter and angulate in order to maintain your balance. Counter means having your upper body face more down the hill than your skis. Angulate means having your upper body more vertical than your lower body.


I usually start with a static exercise I call "Tug of War". This is where you stand uphill of another skier with your skis facing across the slope. You take your poles off and hand them to your partner. They hold all four poles in a bundle toward you and you grab the other end with both hands. Then you lean into the hill trying to get your legs as close to parallel to the snow (horizontal) as you can while keeping your upper body as close to perpendicular (vertical) to the snow as you can. Also have your hips and shoulders facing down the slope. This teaches you counter and angulation.


Next I have the student do a series of carved traverses where you point the skis at a fixed object across the trail, start off in a traverse and then tip your skis into the hill to cause a turn to an uphill stop. Do these at low speed until you are carving (leaving thin tracks in the snow). Then increase the starting angle downhill and delay the tipping until you pick up more and more speed. This will allow you to get bigger counter and angulation angles.


Then we work on adding these movements into our regular skiing. That's how I typically do it. In a lesson for someone at your level, this typically takes about 45 minutes to get the hang of it. There are plenty of other ways.


You may find that this is difficult to do without professional help (i.e. a lesson).

post #8 of 13
Thread Starter 
Goedemorgen Rusty. Thank you very much. I now know what direction I have to go and give it a try in Menuires.
If I don 't succeed we'll hire an instructor I think.
Do I have to sit lower also?: are my angles in my ankles and knees allright? Or does that automatically belong to higher speed? And do I push my hips foreward enough before the turn?
Lots of questions but also a lot to learn. Thanks in advance!
post #9 of 13



The lower you sit, the farther you can get your feet away from your body and still maintain contact with the snow. This will help generate higher edge angles and allow greater turning forces to develop. The lower you sit has no direct impact on whether your upper body is aligned with your body or more vertical. It's possible to ski totally banked (upper aligned with lower). It's just that it's a lot more difficult to manage forces in this position.


Get the tipping and the counter to happen before you start worrying about getting hips forward and the timing of the movement. Once you get the path that the hips travel to be different from the path that the skis travel, most of this issue becomes a moot point. Higher speeds will allow you to create larger counter and edge angulation angles. Larger angles aren't necessarily better. There is a range of angles for speed/slope pitch/snow conditions that are useful. Your skiing could benefit from achieving greater angles. Enjoy!

post #10 of 13
Thread Starter 
Thanks for your clear explanation Rusty. Can't wait to practiice it in real snow in
instead of lying on my carpet and leaning towards walls and chairs right now.
I'll let you know if I succeeded.
post #11 of 13
Thread Starter 

After a delicious week in Les Menuires in ideal conditions (lots of dry powder and full sun) a new clip with hopefully some improvements. Excuses for the shaky vid, but I can't blame my doughter filming with bare hands in minus 16C. After having done your exercises we sometimes saw and felt some ''real'' carving tracks. Are we going in the right direction this way? Thanks in advance.

post #12 of 13

Do you think you succeeded? Can you feel a difference? This should matter a lot more than anything I say.



I see higher edge angles and some more angulation happening. The first left turn is much better.


Starting from the previous right turn, see how your left hip is over the right edge of the right ski? A straight line drawn from between your feet your waist would intersect your right shoulder instead of your chin. This is is beginning to get some angulation. You can get more. With your skis pointing straight downhill, your hips and shoulders are also pointing straight down hill. This is being square to your skis. This is good at this point of the turn.



Here you've let your feet turn more than your upper body. Your skis are pointing across the slope and your hips and shoulders are facing slightly more down the slope. Lines drawn from ski tip to ski tip, along the belt line and from shoulder to shoulder are all parallel. This is a countered position and it's good. 



Here you're on your new edges above the above fall line (i.e. you have engaged your downhill edges) and you've achieved even better angulation (note that a line drawn from your feet now passes below the left shoulder). This is "feeling good" territory.



From the last pic to this one your ski edges really engage and do some great turning. My guess is this surprised you a bit. From this pic on through the rest of the turn, you get stuck with your weight on the inside (see the outside ski start to get away from you? see the big tip lead?). You don't finish this turn with counter and the performance after this frame suffers.




Here's the finish of the next right turn. Again you are slightly countered. But this time you got into this position by skidding your feet out from under you (there is a sharp pivot just before this frame). At this point in the turn, we want to already be flattening the skis to prepare for the next edge change, but you have just finished increasing the edge angle.  Now you have a very long way to go to get to the inside of the next turn. The only to get there is to go up and over. Note how long your left leg is here.



Ok, you've gone up and over and you are starting to get your right ski edge engaged. But what is that left ski tip doing in mid air? Note the left leg is still pretty long. It's been blocking your hips from moving to the inside of the new turn. Here you've shortened it the only way you can (by picking the ski up off the snow). The result is a pivot to get the hips to the inside and a skid. This works, but it is not high performance skiing.



The bottom line here is that I see progress, but there is still a lot of work to do. If we can increase the steering into counter through the end of your turns, we can get onto the new edges earlier into the next turns. If we do that, we can get the highest edge angles to occur closer to the point in the turn when the skis are pointing straight down the hill (note the flat inside ski in the first pic followed by seeing the ski bases in the second pic - we want the opposite movement to be happening). If we can do that, we can start flattening the skis after that and make it easier to get into the next turn with the new inside leg collapsing earlier so it does not have to get lifted like in the last pic. That's going to reduce the skidding and bring an even bigger smile to your face. There's only so much progress you can make from reading posts from crazy people on the Internet. Good luck!

post #13 of 13
Thread Starter 
You're great Rusty! Glad you belong to those crazy people. Atl least I ow you a couple of beers (or French wine if you come to the Three Valleys).
Glad you are seeing some improvement. It already felt better, but my wife and daughter were not very impressed and could'nt see any diiference at all (grrr!).

Your analysis realy helps to understand how to improve (unfortunately can only visualise it for a year from now on).
But I still have some questions about it.
I am waiting too long to flatten my ski's. I understand it must be done while traversing already and keep on engaging my new edges throughout the rest of the turn. So a long downhill leg only between turn-in and exit point of the turn? And after the apex start to soften it already?
When do I stop countering and be square to my ski's? Only when my whole ski's are in the falline? So I have to be countered in the last pic too?
What does cause my tip lead? Is it my inside weight and not countering my upper body or is it also caused by trying to push my inside hip foreward?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Ski Instruction & Coaching